Fighting an Unknown Pathogen - Help Requested

[AZ1424]

Hey R2R Community,

I have been dealing with an unknown pathogen for months now and have lost nearly 50 specimens to it. I am now turning to this community for help.

The main corals that succumb to the disease are Zoas and Acans but Fungia, Duncans and now most recently an Acantho are effected. The acans, duncan and fungia are alive but stay retracted. They keep their color but never extend their polyps. I have tried dosing Chemiclean and Reef Flux and dipping Lugols solution. I have now most recently tried dipping Nitrofurazone but have seen no effect.

A fellow reefer in the community said with conviction that it was Zoa Pox after seeing a picture of my zoas and I do see large white spots on my palyanthoa grandis before it closed up completely. With this diagnosis I have bought Nitrofurazone and will try to dip this on a regiment and see if it works but I am turning to this community for your opinion.

My parameters are as follows:

Tank: 60 gallon AIO Innovative Marine
Salt: Tropic Marin Pro with Weekly 5 Gallon Water Changes
Salinity: 34.7
Temperature: 78.4
PH: 7.9-8.1
Alk: 8.04
Cal: 417
Mag: 1563
PO: .2
NO: .8

I have reduced my feeding to frozen mysis every other or every 3rd day and I run GFO, a Protein Skimmer and auto dose Alk and Cal.

I am at a loss nowadays and my SPS, Softies, Mushrooms and select LPS like Euphylia are all very happy. I am near to accepting defeat and just sticking with what will live in this tank. I used to have an awesome zoa garden but now it is just a memory.

Pictured attached of the reef and the effected corals, in order: Acantho, Duncan, Fungia, Zoas + Acan Micromussa, Palyanthoa Grandis

Any insight you can provide is much appreciated, thanks in advance.

 

[sixty_reefer]

What you using to test no3

 

[AZ1424]

What you using to test no3

Hanna tester

 

[hotbiscuits84]

Can you rule away sort of chemical contamination to the tank? Maybe its an air freshener placed nearby, or RODI water not as pure as it should be.. or maybe even something that accidentally fell into the tank and is now leeching metals. Check for copper recently or perform a recent ICP test?

 

[sixty_reefer]

Hanna tester

I would put the current problem you have at bad nutrition, although you got some residual nitrates you don’t have enough nutrients available if you only feeding every other day, your import of nutrients is very low and the corals that normally require more nutrients is the ones you observing starting to perish.

 

[Chrisv.]

Is there something that makes you say that it's a pathogen rather than a husbandry issue?

 

[Spare time]

I would put the current problem you have at bad nutrition, although you got some residual nitrates you don’t have enough nutrients available if you only feeding every other day, your import of nutrients is very low and the corals that normally require more nutrients is the ones you observing starting to perish.

That is within the error range of 0.

 

[Spare time]

You might have 0 nitrates. I doubt its a disease. Start dosing some amino acids as soon as you can. I'd also only run the skimmer at night or run it low enough to where it won't collect skimmate.

You also have a lot of phosphates which is not ideal

 

[AZ1424]

First of all, wow, thank you everyone for your insightful and thoughtful responses. I am feeling much more hopeful about this issue I'm facing.

Addressing the above comments below:

@hotbiscuits84 I ordered an ICP test and will be sending it in this week to rule metals, contamination out etc. I doubt it is that since I've done many 30% water changes over the last months with RO from multiple sources, both from my home RO filter and from the LFS.

@sixty_reefer I am very intrigued by the idea that is bad nutrition, I have been on both sides of extremes since my issue started. At first, I was dosing Aminos daily and frequently feeding Reef Roids when my issues first started. My phosphates were so high that they didn't read on the ULR Hanna test. I then brought my dosing of nutrients down to near zero and have gotten my phosphates lower.

To be honest, PO4 and NO3 are the reef parameters that I am least knowledgeable of and least comfortable with and it would not surprise me if this was the issue.

@Spare time Since feeding Reef Roids yesterday my Duncan is coming out of its shell more than it has in months. I am feeling hopeful that bad nutrition may be the issue and less certain it is a pathogen. I dosed Aminos again today as well.

@Chrisv. I assumed it was a pathogen because I have success with many corals and just lose a select few mentioned above (zoas, acans, palys) mainly. The duncan and fungia are alive and colorful but just do not put out there polyps and seem to retract their polyps if they ever do extend- which made me think that there was something in the water upsetting them. Finally, because I watched my zoa garden die one after another and they would just close up and melt. I got a diagnosis from an online reefer of zoa pox and ran with it.

In summary, I will be sending in an ICP test this week to check that box and will move back to a regiment of dosing aminos and reef roids (or benepets). I will also only use my skimmer at night.

I used to have a really nice zoa garden in this same tank and watched them die one by one - I am really hopeful that with this communities insight I can one day have the zoa garden of my dreams again.

 

[AZ1424]

Image attached of the duncan coming out of its shell after dosing reef roids - more than it has in months.

 

[Spare time]

First of all, wow, thank you everyone for your insightful and thoughtful responses. I am feeling much more hopeful about this issue I'm facing.

Addressing the above comments below:

@hotbiscuits84 I ordered an ICP test and will be sending it in this week to rule metals, contamination out etc. I doubt it is that since I've done many 30% water changes over the last months with RO from multiple sources, both from my home RO filter and from the LFS.

@sixty_reefer I am very intrigued by the idea that is bad nutrition, I have been on both sides of extremes since my issue started. At first, I was dosing Aminos daily and frequently feeding Reef Roids when my issues first started. My phosphates were so high that they didn't read on the ULR Hanna test. I then brought my dosing of nutrients down to near zero and have gotten my phosphates lower.

To be honest, PO4 and NO3 are the reef parameters that I am least knowledgeable of and least comfortable with and it would not surprise me if this was the issue.

@Spare time Since feeding Reef Roids yesterday my Duncan is coming out of its shell more than it has in months. I am feeling hopeful that bad nutrition may be the issue and less certain it is a pathogen. I dosed Aminos again today as well.

@Chrisv. I assumed it was a pathogen because I have success with many corals and just lose a select few mentioned above (zoas, acans, palys) mainly. The duncan and fungia are alive and colorful but just do not put out there polyps and seem to retract their polyps if they ever do extend- which made me think that there was something in the water upsetting them. Finally, because I watched my zoa garden die one after another and they would just close up and melt. I got a diagnosis from an online reefer of zoa pox and ran with it.

In summary, I will be sending in an ICP test this week to check that box and will move back to a regiment of dosing aminos and reef roids (or benepets). I will also only use my skimmer at night.

I used to have a really nice zoa garden in this same tank and watched them die one by one - I am really hopeful that with this communities insight I can one day have the zoa garden of my dreams again.

I'd definitely keep dosing aminos but hold off reef roids till you get the phosphates down. I prefer aminos or other dissolved food for struggling coral as I think it may be easier for them to take out of the water column as they don't need to "catch" it like they do with traditional foods.

 

[sixty_reefer]

I'd definitely keep dosing aminos but hold off reef roids till you get the phosphates down. I prefer aminos or other dissolved food for struggling coral as I think it may be easier for them to take out of the water column as they don't need to "catch" it like they do with traditional foods.

He’s phosphates are zero, the reef roids must be helping with phosphates

 

[damsels are not mean]

What inhabitants in the tank other than corals? I don't understand the water chemistry argument, like you said most corals are fine. Only a few seem to be affected by the alleged pathogen.

 

[AZ1424]

I will do another test of PO4 and NO3 soon here to really get an idea of what my levels are, admittedly my last test was a couple weeks ago. I will stick to Aminos for now, I like that rationale of aminos vs. protein.

@damsels are not mean All inhabitants are: about 20 hermits and various snails, 1 yellow tang, 2 mocha storm clowns, 1 aptasia eating file fish, 1 cardinal, 1 6 line wrasse, 1 court jester goby, 1 yellow watchman goby, 1 pistol shrimp.

 

[tnw50cal]

What inhabitants in the tank other than corals? I don't understand the water chemistry argument, like you said most corals are fine. Only a few seem to be affected by the alleged pathogen.

Would you agree that different corals react differently to changes in water chemistry
and some corals take longer to show those reactions?
To the OP my duncan really likes meatly pieces of food that I target feed to it 2 times a week. It started out about 3 years ago as 3 polyps and is bigger than a softball now.

 

[Tamberav]

Palys specifically incorporate sand into their structure. White specs do not just mean zoa pox. Careful about jumping to conclusions and causing more stress then good.

 

[Spare time]

He’s phosphates are zero, the reef roids must be helping with phosphates

Aren't they at 0.2ppm?

 

[Dkmoo]

Feed them reefroids every 2 to 3 days but do NOT broadcast feed it - thats where many ppl say it elevated or dirtier up the water too much. Instead, make it into a thick soup, use a J syringe, and slowly squirt/drop the paste directly into each polyp heads. Do this for all of your LPS and you should see improvements very quickly and you should see a very obvious feeding response.. large mouth corals are easier like duncans, mussas, and fungia, but smaller mouth ones are still doable - just need more patience and steady hand. Feeding this way is exponentially more effective because you are giving it a super concentrated glob of food with 0 waste. Its like giving those calory bars to starving children in Africa.

 

[sixty_reefer]

Aren't they at 0.2ppm?

Confusing it with other thread sorry

 

[Spare time]

Confusing it with other thread sorry

No problem

I tend to do that too sometime lol