Fish compatibility - HELP!!!

Thomas Cummins · Oct 13, 2017

Got it. We are just about a week from ordering the fish so that’s why I’m asking about everything now.

leahfiish · Oct 13, 2017

Tbh based on the tank being really new with no live rock I would probably hold off on adding fish for right now. When was the last time you tested the water and what were the results?

sfin52 · Oct 13, 2017

New tank recommend testing water daily.

Thomas Cummins · Oct 13, 2017

We tested it today. Ammonia has been at about 1.0 ppm lately but dropped to .5 ppm. Nitrite level was high, around 3.0 ppm. Nitrate was 7ish. Our teacher is ordering fish next week and they’ll be in in maybe 2 weeks so this is really our only chance.

sfin52 · Oct 13, 2017

Tank is cycling. let's hope the tank is done cycling by the time the fish get in. Adding all the fish at once may cause another cycle.

leahfiish · Oct 13, 2017

Do not add more livestock until ammonia and nitrite are 0. In the meantime add an ammonia neutralizer (such as Seachem Prime) every day. Frequent water changes are also recommended. And adding live bottled bacteria.

sfin52 · Oct 13, 2017

Do you have access to the tank over the weekend?

sfin52 · Oct 13, 2017

@Thomas Cummins keep us up to date. This is an amazing project that your able to do in high school. Wish my teachers would have done something like this.

Thomas Cummins · Oct 14, 2017

sfin52 said:
@Thomas Cummins keep us up to date. This is an amazing project that your able to do in high school. Wish my teachers would have done something like this.

The students don’t have access over the weekend but our teacher comes in a feeds them for us. If our levels are ever super high he adds something from a bottle but I have no idea what it is, all I know is it lowers everything very quickly. It probably speeds up the cycle. I will do water changes more frequently from now on and I’ll keep you guys up to date.

Thomas Cummins · Oct 14, 2017

Also, if we can’t add in the fish to our tank, there are 4 other tanks in the class that other students use and they have been up much longer than our new one (since late August). Maybe we could add them to those tanks assuming all the levels are good, but I’m not sure how they would get along with their fish. One tank has another (larger) sergeant major, one has some type of blue wrasse, I think one has some type of white small fish which I’m not sure of, and then the last has a yellow butterfly fish. My teacher also has his own tank that’s been up for atleast a year or two- it has 4 percula clownfish, one cinnamon clown (that hasn’t eaten anyone yet), a purple pseudochromis (I think) , and I think some type of hawkfish. That is actually the same tank we got our yellowtail damsel in August from so it lived well with some of those fish, although I think the purple pseudochromis is new. The tank is 45-50 gallons and there’s less decorations in there so there’s a lot more room. Maybe we can add our fish in to there or disperse them around the classroom in the right tanks, and then once our water has cycled we can move them.

Katie Kat · Oct 17, 2017

Maritimer said:
Gonna agree with Humblefish here - yellowtails are probably one of the feistier damsels in their family, but still on the mellower side for damsels in general. I've got azures and talbott's in the same family, and love 'em.

Sergeant-majors, on the other hand, are rugged - and get pretty darned big for a damselfish. You'll be happier, long-term, if you find a bigger home for that fellow.

Green chromis can be charming, but have a problem with a disease called Uronema marinum. Even when they don't, many folks report them picking the weakest off, until there's only one.
The royal gramma would spend most of his time close to his favorite bolt-hole in the rock, and will follow the contours of the rockwork - even to the point of swimming upside-down.
The firefish would hover in open water - though never more than a fraction of a second from safety - awaiting drifting plankton.
The tailspot blenny will snuggle into holes on the rock and watch the world go by, periodically nipping out to nip at algae - or the food you offer.

All delightful fish, to my eye.

The brittle star, if not huge, will snuggle into a crevice, extending an arm during the day or emerging at night to prowl for food.
The sand-sifting star, in a tank that size, may consume all of your sand microfauna fairly quickly - and then starve.

~Bruce

P.S. - Welcome to Reef2Reef, Thomas!

I agree with all info above. My tank:
65 gallon reef tank. Approx 15 small corals (larger than frags), and lots of live rock.
1 Maroon clown
1 firefish
1 purple royal gamma
1 yellow tang
3 blue/green chromis
1 blood red fire shrimp
1 purple lobster
6 turbo snails

As for my maroon clown: don"t expect to get an anemone, and it actually live. My maroon clown has killed 3 LARGE anemones simply by "loving-it-to-death". He rubs on it so hard and frequently, that the anemone dies. You won't have this problem with other clownfish usually, just specifically the maroon clowns. If you want the "clown fish that live symbiotically in the anemone" relationship, 1) buy the clown fish you want first (one MUST be larger than the other) the SAME DAY so they acclimate together. This increases your chances of them getting along and not fighting to the death. 2) Buy the anemone AFTER your tank is established. If an anemone dies, it can quickly kill everything in your tank. It's best to get some experience under your belt first.

The firefish and royal gamma have been a breeze to care for, and they are BEAUTIFUL! I love them in my tank.

The yellow tang can be a little bit of a bully. When I got him, he was friendly with my maroon clown, and now it seems they have their good and bad days. Don't really understand why...

The chromis are nice to have. I enjoy watching them school together, however it is clear that the bigger 3 bully the smaller 1. Now, this could be because I have 4 and not an odd number. Also, I bought another chromis, added him to me tank, and was getting physically attacked by the dominant 3. The new one and the dominant 3 were the same size. So, my advice would be to buy them at 1) same size, and 2) same day. After that purchase passes, don't add anymore chromis. That being said, they don't push around any of my other fish.

My blood red fire shrimp has been my second favorite, (first is my maroon, even though he's killed anemones). That being said, I made the mistake of adding melafix to my tank when I thought one of my fish had a bacterial infection. BAD IDEA!!! I've heard and read many differing opinions on the effects of melafix on crustaceans. Well, it almost killed my shrimp. Jump forward, I now have a hospital tank, mostly because I will add any extra chemicals in my big tank. So there's the added cost.

My purple lobster: just don't do it. They are pretty, but they are SUPER territorial. He leaves his cave in the middle of the night in search for food, finds my sleep maroon clown and yellow tang and snips at their tails. Not cool! Plus, I'm sure he killed 3 chromis when he was in my 17 gallon tank and 2 peppermint since I moved him to my 65 gallon. He's just a grump.

All in all, I'm happy with my choices in my big tank. But above are just a few things I would have done differently.

As for my 17 gallon, I have my mandarin goby, 1 blue/green chromis, and 2 4-colored captive bred clownfish.
The mandarin goby is hard to keep. When I bought him, he was large and fat. Definitely the largest mandarin I have ever seen, even as a scuba diver. That being said, keeping him fat and happy has been SUPER difficult. If you get a goby, 1) only get one per tank. PERIOD. 2) Don't get a large one because he is larger. It only multiplies the difficulty of keeping him alive.
The chromi is the bullied "new" chromi from the large tank, so he'll be the only chromi in the 17 gallon. FOREVER.
The paired clown fish I bought are HILARIOUS. In my opinion, captive bred fish, only maybe just specific captive-bred clown fish, are.... lacking sense, smarts, and overall brain function. They swim sideways, into the glass, then turn. They don't really swim by definition. More like bobble through the water. It's kinda amusing actually. I've had them for about 3 months. No health issues, no problems with the tank mates. Just overall ackward-ness in the water, that makes them special to me.

Well, enough for the novel. I love the hobby, and enjoying sharing my knowledge to anyone who will listen. Good luck!!!

Katie Kat · Oct 17, 2017

Katie Kat said:
I agree with all info above. My tank:
65 gallon reef tank. Approx 15 small corals (larger than frags), and lots of live rock.
1 Maroon clown
1 firefish
1 purple royal gamma
1 yellow tang
3 blue/green chromis
1 blood red fire shrimp
1 purple lobster
6 turbo snails

As for my maroon clown: don"t expect to get an anemone, and it actually live. My maroon clown has killed 3 LARGE anemones simply by "loving-it-to-death". He rubs on it so hard and frequently, that the anemone dies. You won't have this problem with other clownfish usually, just specifically the maroon clowns. If you want the "clown fish that live symbiotically in the anemone" relationship, 1) buy the clown fish you want first (one MUST be larger than the other) the SAME DAY so they acclimate together. This increases your chances of them getting along and not fighting to the death. 2) Buy the anemone AFTER your tank is established. If an anemone dies, it can quickly kill everything in your tank. It's best to get some experience under your belt first.

The firefish and royal gamma have been a breeze to care for, and they are BEAUTIFUL! I love them in my tank.

The yellow tang can be a little bit of a bully. When I got him, he was friendly with my maroon clown, and now it seems they have their good and bad days. Don't really understand why...

The chromis are nice to have. I enjoy watching them school together, however it is clear that the bigger 3 bully the smaller 1. Now, this could be because I have 4 and not an odd number. Also, I bought another chromis, added him to me tank, and was getting physically attacked by the dominant 3. The new one and the dominant 3 were the same size. So, my advice would be to buy them at 1) same size, and 2) same day. After that purchase passes, don't add anymore chromis. That being said, they don't push around any of my other fish.

My blood red fire shrimp has been my second favorite, (first is my maroon, even though he's killed anemones). That being said, I made the mistake of adding melafix to my tank when I thought one of my fish had a bacterial infection. BAD IDEA!!! I've heard and read many differing opinions on the effects of melafix on crustaceans. Well, it almost killed my shrimp. Jump forward, I now have a hospital tank, mostly because I will add any extra chemicals in my big tank. So there's the added cost.

My purple lobster: just don't do it. They are pretty, but they are SUPER territorial. He leaves his cave in the middle of the night in search for food, finds my sleep maroon clown and yellow tang and snips at their tails. Not cool! Plus, I'm sure he killed 3 chromis when he was in my 17 gallon tank and 2 peppermint since I moved him to my 65 gallon. He's just a grump.

All in all, I'm happy with my choices in my big tank. But above are just a few things I would have done differently.

As for my 17 gallon, I have my mandarin goby, 1 blue/green chromis, and 2 4-colored captive bred clownfish.
The mandarin goby is hard to keep. When I bought him, he was large and fat. Definitely the largest mandarin I have ever seen, even as a scuba diver. That being said, keeping him fat and happy has been SUPER difficult. If you get a goby, 1) only get one per tank. PERIOD. 2) Don't get a large one because he is larger. It only multiplies the difficulty of keeping him alive.
The chromi is the bullied "new" chromi from the large tank, so he'll be the only chromi in the 17 gallon. FOREVER.
The paired clown fish I bought are HILARIOUS. In my opinion, captive bred fish, only maybe just specific captive-bred clown fish, are.... lacking sense, smarts, and overall brain function. They swim sideways, into the glass, then turn. They don't really swim by definition. More like bobble through the water. It's kinda amusing actually. I've had them for about 3 months. No health issues, no problems with the tank mates. Just overall ackward-ness in the water, that makes them special to me.

Well, enough for the novel. I love the hobby, and enjoying sharing my knowledge to anyone who will listen. Good luck!!!

Just one more thing... ;-)
As for the number of fish : size of tank ratio...my 65 gallon could fit another 2 small fish comfortably, or 1 larger fish. I wouldn't feel safe, comfortable, and fair to add any more fish than that. As for my 17 gallon, I'll keep my fish small to allow for a larger number. No more than 3 inches, and that's my goby. So I'd probably fit another 2 very small fish, but no one larger than my goby. Thinking chromi size or smaller.

Ok. Byeeee.

Thomas Cummins · Oct 18, 2017

I wanted to give you guys an update on everything. We put in the protein skimmer today. We’ve been running tests and doing frequent water changes and the ammonia is near zero. The nitrites are still high but I’m hopeful them and the nitrates will go down to zero soon. Our teacher is going to have shipment of fish for the class in the next 2 weeks. We won’t add the fish to ours unless our water parameters are good.

Instead of the chromis and gramma, we decided on these fish:

1 false percula clown
1 coral beauty angel
1 tailspot blenny

We are ordering the smallest we can get of all these fish. These would be in a 30 gal tank with a yellowtail damsel (barely over 1 inch) and a sergeant major (less than an inch). I know we will probably have to move our sergeant major out once it grows and gets more aggressive, but it’s beyond me when that will happen... I seriously think our preview tank stunted it’s growth. Once the others outgrow the tank (in hopefully a long time) we can move them out since we have so many tanks in the room, or we can get a really large tank..

We are also going to buy 2 nassarius snails, 2 turbo snails and 2 hermit crabs to clean up the tank. We have one West Indian star snail in there right now. Again, we are ordering the smallest ones possible.

What do you guys think?

leahfiish · Oct 18, 2017

Sounds like a solid plan to me just keep a close eye on your ammonia after adding 3 fish at once, that is a lot but not impossible.

Katie Kat · Oct 19, 2017

Thomas Cummins said:
I wanted to give you guys an update on everything. We put in the protein skimmer today. We’ve been running tests and doing frequent water changes and the ammonia is near zero. The nitrites are still high but I’m hopeful them and the nitrates will go down to zero soon. Our teacher is going to have shipment of fish for the class in the next 2 weeks. We won’t add the fish to ours unless our water parameters are good.

Instead of the chromis and gramma, we decided on these fish:

1 false percula clown
1 coral beauty angel
1 tailspot blenny

We are ordering the smallest we can get of all these fish. These would be in a 30 gal tank with a yellowtail damsel (barely over 1 inch) and a sergeant major (less than an inch). I know we will probably have to move our sergeant major out once it grows and gets more aggressive, but it’s beyond me when that will happen... I seriously think our preview tank stunted it’s growth. Once the others outgrow the tank (in hopefully a long time) we can move them out since we have so many tanks in the room, or we can get a really large tank..

We are also going to buy 2 nassarius snails, 2 turbo snails and 2 hermit crabs to clean up the tank. We have one West Indian star snail in there right now. Again, we are ordering the smallest ones possible.

What do you guys think?

Looks great! I love your choices!

Thomas Cummins · Oct 30, 2017

I'll give you guys another update. The tank cycle finished and our fish arrived last Wednesday. We got a TINY false percula clownfish, small coral beauty angel (1-1.5 inches), a sally lightfoot crab and 5 hermit crabs to go along with our Yellowtail damsel, sergeant major, 2 green urchins and 1 trochus snail. All the fish are getting along extremely well, including the damselfish. The yellowtail approached the clownfish every so often for the first few days but no fighting occured, and they don't bother each other now. The sergeant major just waits for food as it always has and doesn't have ANY aggression towards the other fish, but it is still small. The coral beauty is the only fish that still hides, but its mostly just when i approach the tank. It is getting more comfortable as time goes on and doesn't have problems with the other fish. The crabs just look for food and all that.