Fishless Cycling help

[CoolDad]

I have setup a 125 gal DT with a 40b as a sump. Looking for some help with the fishless cycling. I started cycling with fritz on exactly three weeks ago. After six days I tested and found that there was still 2ppm NH3 and 0 Nitrites and 0 nitrates. Seemed to me that the fritz bacteria had been destroyed during shipping. I went back to the LFS, but all they had was another tube of fritz that was same lot as the tube I just purchased, but I tried it anyways. 4 days later still 2ppm NH3 and 0 Nitrites and 0 nitrates.

I ordered some Dr Tim's online and added that 11 days ago. After 4 days I found an increase in nitrites ~1.5ppm and decrease in NH3 to ~1.2ppm, but still no nitrates. PH= 8.2
It has been a week and the parameters haven't changed.

I followed all the instructions including removing filter socks and turning off the skimmer. I have my lights off. I have lids over the DT but there is substantial evaporation which I manual top off daily with RODI. Temp 75.5, salinity 1.025

What am I missing?

My test kits reagents will be expiring in the next month, so I will replace and start there.
But otherwise I am at a loss.
I could potentially do a water change, but it is a pain to get so much RODI water and none of the metrics seem close to the parameters that would stall a cycle.
I could add the filter socks back and turn the skimmer on... Dr Tim's says it is okay to put them back in after three days.

 

[KrisReef]

What are you missing?
The establishment of large numbers of environmental microbes might be hastened by increasing the temperature of the aquarium but these things grow and develop according to their own schedule and often don't perform like we would hope and especially according to the instructions provided with the bottles of products that promise more than we would demand of ourselves if the destruction or assimilation of environmental ammonia was fully up to us.
A watched aquarium never cycles?

I think you would improve your system by finding an automatic top off to replace evaporation. The improved stability is a great thing for fishes and corals and microbes and is an area of operations that you might focus upon to distract yourself from the rebellious behavior of your Tim's and Fritz subjects.

Otherwise, it seems like you are doing the right thing to set up a reef in your castle.

 

[Puggz]

A couple of random thoughts. The additive you're using is a combo of bacteria and food for said bacteria. Therefore, once the food supply diminishes, the bacteria will die off. That said I would personally ghost feed or throw in a dozen mollies to keep the ammonia up until the cycle completes. Here are the guidelines for Fritz, I especially like the last line..lol.

Chlorine and chloramines are lethal to FritzZyme® TurboStart® bacteria and must be completely removed before addition.
Turn off UV sterilizers and protein skimmers before use and for 5 days after each introduction of FritzZyme® TurboStart® 900.
Shake bottle, add 1 oz. (29 ml) TurboStart® per 25 gallons (95 L) of water.
Add animals after acclimating. Do not overcrowd tank. Do not overfeed.
Test water parameters regularly.
To decrease cycling time, FritzZyme® TurboStart® 900 can be safely used up to 5x recommended dosage.

 

[Science/G]

What kind of rock and what kind of substrate if any did you start the aquarium with?

 

[Marine Betta]

I have setup a 125 gal DT with a 40b as a sump. Looking for some help with the fishless cycling. I started cycling with fritz on exactly three weeks ago. After six days I tested and found that there was still 2ppm NH3 and 0 Nitrites and 0 nitrates. Seemed to me that the fritz bacteria had been destroyed during shipping. I went back to the LFS, but all they had was another tube of fritz that was same lot as the tube I just purchased, but I tried it anyways. 4 days later still 2ppm NH3 and 0 Nitrites and 0 nitrates.

I ordered some Dr Tim's online and added that 11 days ago. After 4 days I found an increase in nitrites ~1.5ppm and decrease in NH3 to ~1.2ppm, but still no nitrates. PH= 8.2
It has been a week and the parameters haven't changed.

I followed all the instructions including removing filter socks and turning off the skimmer. I have my lights off. I have lids over the DT but there is substantial evaporation which I manual top off daily with RODI. Temp 75.5, salinity 1.025

What am I missing?

My test kits reagents will be expiring in the next month, so I will replace and start there.
But otherwise I am at a loss.
I could potentially do a water change, but it is a pain to get so much RODI water and none of the metrics seem close to the parameters that would stall a cycle.
I could add the filter socks back and turn the skimmer on... Dr Tim's says it is okay to put them back in after three days.

If you have access to filter media and/or live rock and/or live rock from a cycled tank, that will be the fastest way to seed the tank with beneficial bacteria and cycle the tank. Don’t rush it though. It can take time for tanks to cycle, especially 100+ gallons. Have you had an ammonia spike yet?

 

[JumboShrimp]

I have a 150 gallon DT with about a 40 gallon sump (so similar to what you have), that I have had rock and sand going with a heater, air stone, and lights for about 3 or 4 months. I'm about to toss in some Fritz Turbo Start, some MicroBacter 7, some established filter-floss as cycled media from another tank, and one very small fish. (If there are any 'haters' out there, that's one tiny fish the size of my thumb for 180 gallons of water, with bottled bacteria AND established media from another tank. ) I'm not going to overthink this, or 'measure' things from here to the moon. Just moving forward on this one using the K.I.S.S. method.

 

[Reefing addict Clay]

I have setup a 125 gal DT with a 40b as a sump. Looking for some help with the fishless cycling. I started cycling with fritz on exactly three weeks ago. After six days I tested and found that there was still 2ppm NH3 and 0 Nitrites and 0 nitrates. Seemed to me that the fritz bacteria had been destroyed during shipping. I went back to the LFS, but all they had was another tube of fritz that was same lot as the tube I just purchased, but I tried it anyways. 4 days later still 2ppm NH3 and 0 Nitrites and 0 nitrates.

I ordered some Dr Tim's online and added that 11 days ago. After 4 days I found an increase in nitrites ~1.5ppm and decrease in NH3 to ~1.2ppm, but still no nitrates. PH= 8.2
It has been a week and the parameters haven't changed.

I followed all the instructions including removing filter socks and turning off the skimmer. I have my lights off. I have lids over the DT but there is substantial evaporation which I manual top off daily with RODI. Temp 75.5, salinity 1.025

What am I missing?

My test kits reagents will be expiring in the next month, so I will replace and start there.
But otherwise I am at a loss.
I could potentially do a water change, but it is a pain to get so much RODI water and none of the metrics seem close to the parameters that would stall a cycle.
I could add the filter socks back and turn the skimmer on... Dr Tim's says it is okay to put them back in after three days.

I’m going to be setting up my new tank in next few weeks. If you have any friends with a reef tank that’s fully established when he does a water change get the water he takes out and do a water change with that water because it will have alot of positive bacteria. I know some ppl will say he’s doing a water change do put clean water in but if it’s a well established tank it’s not gonna be full of nitrates and phosphates unless it’s a FOWLR. Just my 2 cents might be worth that just about that to but I will be getting 40 gallons from a friend with 2 180g tanks he also let me put in a marine bio 4x4 in his sump 2 months ago so I’m kinda lucky

 

[Fish Fan]

If you have any friends with a reef tank that’s fully established when he does a water change get the water he takes out and do a water change with that water because it will have alot of positive bacteria.

Unfortunately, using water from another system is not a good way to add beneficial bacteria to a new tank. The bacteria largely populate the rocks, sand and other surfaces, and very few are found in the water column. A better way to inoculate your new tank with beneficial bacteria would be to add a piece of rock or some sand from an existing tank to the new tank

 

[Reefing addict Clay]

If you have any friends with a reef tank that’s fully established when he does a water change get the water he takes out and do a water change with that water because it will have alot of positive bacteria.

Unfortunately, using water from another system is not a good way to add beneficial bacteria to a new tank. The bacteria largely populate the rocks, sand and other surfaces, and very few are found in the water column. A better way to inoculate your new tank with beneficial bacteria would be to add a piece of rock or some sand from an existing tank to the new tank

I agree I shouldn’t have used the word a lot! I’m just speaking from personal experience that I find when I do that I find it does help with the process. I did say I put a marine bio brick in my friends sump 2 months ago so I am lucky because that will very positive for me not helping the original poster but not sure if you don’t agree that either.

 

[Fish Fan]

I agree I shouldn’t have used the word a lot! I’m just speaking from personal experience that I find when I do that I find it does help with the process. I did say I put a marine bio brick in my friends sump 2 months ago so I am lucky because that will very positive for me not helping the original poster but not sure if you don’t agree that either.

I think adding the bio brick to your friends tank is a solid move as far as getting the beneficial bacteria into your tank. However, personally I don't care for those bio bricks, I've seen some reports where at least some of them can leach heavy metals into the tank, so personally I use plastic bio media for something like this. But otherwise, that's a great way to get your new tank up and cycled quickly

 

[Reefing addict Clay]

I agree I shouldn’t have used the word a lot! I’m just speaking from personal experience that I find when I do that I find it does help with the process. I did say I put a marine bio brick in my friends sump 2 months ago so I am lucky because that will very positive for me not helping the original poster but not sure if you don’t agree that either.

I think adding the bio brick to your friends tank is a solid move as far as getting the beneficial bacteria into your tank. However, personally I don't care for those bio bricks, I've seen some reports where at least some of them can leach heavy metals into the tank, so personally I use plastic bio media for something like this. But otherwise, that's a great way to get your new tank up and cycled quickly

Really leaching heavy metals!!! I never heard of that nor do I want that. Biggest complaint I’ve heard is that if your not careful when you move then they will break but have to do some research cause heavy metals in anything no bueno expect for music I guess if that’s your jam

 

[CoolDad]

To answer the questions above:
I used all dry rock and sand to eliminate the chances of unwanted pests being introduced. I have access to live rock and sand, but am in no hurry and don't want to risk introducing any contaminants.

I started with 80lbs of dry rock and ~130 of dry sand. I realize this is on the low side for rock, but I want plenty of remove for active swimmers and also room for my corals to grow long term.

After doing a ton of research today I am thinking that things are just going slowly and I should just wait a week and reassess.

Here are a couple of reasons why my tank might be cycling slowly:

I haven't been dosing additional ammonia after the first day.
I have less rock than most similar sized systems.
The tank is at 75.5, bacteria would grow faster at 80, but I have another tank I am moving my fish from and they have been at 75.5 for over a year.
I read that Nitrates and Phosphates can be absorbed by dry sand and dry rock. So it is possible that Nitrates are being created in small numbers only to be absorbed by the dry sand and rock.

I will update this as things progress. I am going to hold off on adding more ammonia and keep the filter socks out and skimmer off. I wasn't able to encounter a situation like mine on any of the reef2reef forums.

Thanks so much for the input!

 

[JumboShrimp]

Sounds like you have the kind of patience that will work to your advantage.

 

[Fish Fan]

Don't add more ammonia, you have plenty Adding too much ammonia can slow the cycle, and just result in wicked high nitrate when the cycle is over. Just be patient, and wait for the ammonia to go to nearly zero and then you can start to slowly stock with hardy livestock.

You have plenty of rock and sand to cycle the tank, no worries there.

The bacteria grow slightly faster at an elevated temp, but I don't think it's worth changing anything. At most it would save you a day or two, I'd estimate.

Only phosphate binds to and is released from rock, nitrate does not do this. If nitrate is being produced, it will show on a good test kit.

Maybe it would help to know that most fish-less cycles like this take about 3 or so weeks to complete, even if the bottle of bacteria said one week

 

[CoolDad]

About 9 days ago I got some new test kits from Salifert and those shows more normal readings: 0.4 ppm Nh3, 1.2 nitrites and 20 ppm nitrates. The nh3 was gone the next time I tested and so I have started adding fish and did a the first of my many weekly water changes. Have been testing the parameters since to make sure there haven't been nh3 spikes with the addition of new fish. All good here! Definitely expired test reagents that caused the issue.

 

[Fish Fan]

About 9 days ago I got some new test kits from Salifert and those shows more normal readings: 0.4 ppm Nh3, 1.2 nitrites and 20 ppm nitrates. The nh3 was gone the next time I tested and so I have started adding fish and did a the first of my many weekly water changes. Have been testing the parameters since to make sure there haven't been nh3 spikes with the addition of new fish. All good here! Definitely expired test reagents that caused the issue.

Good to hear! Good luck!