fowlr tank ich

[uclaray]

My insurance man has a 150 gal fowlr tank. He has numerous large fish, a puffer, vlamini tang, blue face angel and some smaller tangs and wrasses. I went in to his office for some business and noticed a new harlequin tusk that he added last week. I saw a mild to moderate ich infestation on the new fish. None of the other fish seemed to be affected at this point. I help him with maintenance on the tank {cleaning, water changes, etc.} and all has been well. Do to the the number and size of the fish, QT isn't an option. Any suggestions? Treatment options? Thanks in advance.

 

[cromag27]

Ich is a freshwater disease so you're probably referring to cryptocaryon irritans, or crypto for short. since it's fish only he could treat the whole tank with copper.

 

[melypr1985]

Ich is a freshwater disease so you're probably referring to cryptocaryon irritans, or crypto for short. since it's fish only he could treat the whole tank with copper.

We still refer to crypto as ich for the most part. But copper in the display would be difficult because the rock and sand would absorb and leach the copper constantly making the copper levels rise and fall. This makes it hard not to over dose the tank and to keep it at therapeutic levels at all times.

 

[melypr1985]

My insurance man has a 150 gal fowlr tank. He has numerous large fish, a puffer, vlamini tang, blue face angel and some smaller tangs and wrasses. I went in to his office for some business and noticed a new harlequin tusk that he added last week. I saw a mild to moderate ich infestation on the new fish. None of the other fish seemed to be affected at this point. I help him with maintenance on the tank {cleaning, water changes, etc.} and all has been well. Do to the the number and size of the fish, QT isn't an option. Any suggestions? Treatment options? Thanks in advance.

Considering QT isn't an option for you I would suggest you try Hypo on the display. Take out any inverts like snails and hermits beforehand. If he doesn't have an ATO and a perfectly calibrated refractometer then I suggesting getting both before starting Hypo as it will only work if strict attention to the salinity is taken. I can get you more info on this, but I want to say right up front that this isn't my preferred treatment for ick. It does seem like the best option for your friend right now however.

 

[melypr1985]

Hyposalinity: Treats Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans) and gill flukes.

How To Treat - Place the fish you wish to treat in a quarantine tank with SG & temperature matching the tank they came from. Over a period of 48 hours, gradually lower the SG down to 1.009. You must use a perfectly calibrated refractometer at all times while doing hypo. Treat for 30 consecutive days, and during that time the SG must always remain at 1.009. If it inches up even slightly, the 30 day clock restarts. For this reason, many people use an auto top off system while performing hyposalinity. Some have even used hypo to successfully rid their display tank of ich, while others have failed. All corals and inverts must be removed beforehand if you wish to try this.

One of the challenges posed by hypo is maintaining a proper pH for the entire duration. While fish aren’t overly sensitive to low pH for short periods of time, anything continuously lower than 7.5 is going to be a problem. So, you will have to constantly test and then buffer the water to raise the pH. This can be accomplished by using supplements (available at most LFS) or you can “bake” your own DIY supplement by using baking soda. Spread baking soda onto a clean baking sheet, and bake at 300F for 1 hour. This process drives off water and carbon dioxide from the baking soda, and the result is an effective pH buffer. You will need to experiment (start with a very small amount) to determine how much is needed to raise your pH to the desired level.

Pros - Chemical free solution to ich, gentle on the fish. Scientific research also showed hyposalinity at 15 ppt for 2 days eliminated juvenile and adult flukes. When maintained for 5 days, egg hatching was prevented.

Cons/Side Effects - Difficult to execute properly, and hypo resistant strains of ich have been proven to exist (study done by Yambot in 2003.)

 

[cromag27]

I have never had an issue with fluctuating copper levels during treatment. I've treated probably no less than half a dozen tanks this way. there may be leaching of copper after you stop treatment, however. might have to do with the amount and porosity of the rock as well.

We still refer to crypto as ich for the most part. But copper in the display would be difficult because the rock and sand would absorb and leach the copper constantly making the copper levels rise and fall. This makes it hard not to over dose the tank and to keep it at therapeutic levels at all times.

 

[melypr1985]

I have never had an issue with fluctuating copper levels during treatment. I've treated probably no less than half a dozen tanks this way. there may be leaching of copper after you stop treatment, however. might have to do with the amount and porosity of the rock as well.

I certainly have. Many times and it's the main reason I removed all live rock and sand from the Fish system that has copper in it at the store. Now I have zero issues with copper levels fluctuating. But I'm glad you never had that problem... it sure is a pain to deal with. :)

I will back myself up with an excerpt from @Humblefish though and I'm sure he could come up with an actual reference for this from smart people. (I'm not one of those people lol)

Therapeutic copper levels must be maintained at all times during the 30 days, so testing often is important. If the level drops even slightly out of range, then the 30 day clock starts all over again. One reason your copper level may drop unexpectedly is if you are treating in a tank with rock and substrate; those should not be used in the presence of copper due to absorption. Conversely, if you exceed the therapeutic range you risk killing the fish.

Copper is a poison, pure and simple. It only works because most fish are able to withstand being in it longer than the parasites. Knowing this, it is wise to raise your copper level very slowly (over 3-5 days) instead of the usual 24-48 hours recommended on the labels. Doing so increases your odds of successfully treating a “copper sensitive” fish. Remove copper after 30 days by running activated carbon.

 

[cromag27]

Interesting. good to know for future reference!

I certainly have. Many times and it's the main reason I removed all live rock and sand from the Fish system that has copper in it at the store. Now I have zero issues with copper levels fluctuating. But I'm glad you never had that problem... it sure is a pain to deal with. :)

I will back myself up with an excerpt from @Humblefish though and I'm sure he could come up with an actual reference for this from smart people. (I'm not one of those people lol)

 

[Humblefish]

I have never had an issue with fluctuating copper levels during treatment. I've treated probably no less than half a dozen tanks this way. there may be leaching of copper after you stop treatment, however. might have to do with the amount and porosity of the rock as well.

The only way you wouldn't have an issue with copper absorption is if the rock has been exposed to it already and thus is already saturated.

 

[4FordFamily]

I have never had an issue with fluctuating copper levels during treatment. I've treated probably no less than half a dozen tanks this way. there may be leaching of copper after you stop treatment, however. might have to do with the amount and porosity of the rock as well.

I dose DT fowlr a lot which most here don't agree with, IME rock will absorb copper so you'll need to dose a lot more than you would otherwise but if you test you should be ok. After a week or so it's fully absorbed (so it seems in practice) and you'll be fine.

 

[roberthu526]

Considering QT isn't an option for you I would suggest you try Hypo on the display. Take out any inverts like snails and hermits beforehand. If he doesn't have an ATO and a perfectly calibrated refractometer then I suggesting getting both before starting Hypo as it will only work if strict attention to the salinity is taken. I can get you more info on this, but I want to say right up front that this isn't my preferred treatment for ick. It does seem like the best option for your friend right now however.

I was going to suggest the same. One more recommendation is to get the Milwaukee digital salinity device. It will make maintaining salinity very easy.

 

[Breakthecycle2]

Are you sure it's ich? A week seems like a short time for a fish to show signs of it.

 

[uclaray]

I'm sure. I think the fish was infected when he bought it. When I saw the fish and pointed out the spots, he had a hard time seeing them, which leads me to believe he didn't see them in the LFS. I'm going to stop by tomorrow and see how things look.

 

[Tntgill]

What about chloroquine phosphate. I used it in my dt and it seemed to eradicate my ich issues. I used the ick shield powder from nls. It did nuke the bristle worm in my tank (didn't like him anyways and the few snails I couldn't catch).

 

[Humblefish]

What about chloroquine phosphate. I used it in my dt and it seemed to eradicate my ich issues. I used the ick shield powder from nls. It did nuke the bristle worm in my tank (didn't like him anyways and the few snails I couldn't catch).

Many report failure when using CP in a DT with rock/sand. I suspect it is either due to absorption or heterotrophic bacteria consuming the medication. Thus, it is optimal to use CP in as sterile an environment as possible.