Getting frustrated with the PH

[yan2pr]

Like the title say besides not winning the Cade tank giveaway, I have been trying to get the PH up to 8.0 but havent been able to get it over 7.86. Heres the list of thing i am currently doing

1. BRS CO2 scrubber attached to the Skimmer.
2. Surface agitation on the main display and the sump
3. Alk dosing spread evenly from 1800 to 0400 to help reduce the night spike of co2.
4. CO2 absorbing plants around the tank. Not sure about this, read about them on google and homedepot guy said yeah right.
5. Fuge with light opposite to the main display lights.
6. A/C on the house is not turning on too much because of the "winter" its 67 degrees right now so for some people it will be summer. I been opening windows as much as i can.

Highest is 7.86 during the day and lowest 7.73 at night.

I want to know if those numbers are "ok" i usually dont chase numbers it just bothers me a lot that i tried raising it and nothing has worked for me, now its personal. I calibrated the apex probe twice btw.

 

[rtparty]

How new is your probe and when was it calibrated? Did you calibrate it properly?

 

[yan2pr]

How new is your probe and when was it calibrated? Did you calibrate it properly?

Exactly one year old, calibrated once by myself following the guidance of Ryan from BRS on youtube and the second time with a buddy of mine. I think it was done correctly.

 

[Tamberav]

You could just stop testing for it

7.8 is okay

 

[yan2pr]

You could just stop testing for it

7.8 is okay

Thats the answer i was looking for, just like taking the check engine light out so it wont turn on lol. It is driving me crazy because i dont want it like that, but if its ok ill leave it alone.

 

[yan2pr]

I forgot to add that on the apex the 7.8 is the minimun and as soon as it goes under it, the apex harass me all night with messages and i have to turn it off. I dont like this because if theres a leak or something else i wont know.

 

[rtparty]

Thats the answer i was looking for, just like taking the check engine light out so it wont turn on lol. It is driving me crazy because i dont want it like that, but if its ok ill leave it alone.

7.8 is fine but no harm in taking some easy/cheap steps to get a better number.

I ask about the probe because I just went through this. I could not get my pH above 7.8 most of the time. Every so often I would see 8.0 and be ecstatic but then back to 7.6 we go.

Just the other day, I decided it was time to replace my old probe. Got out the new probe, soaked the probe and solution in my sump for 30 minutes and then calibrated. BAM! 8.2 instead of the 7.7 my old probe was reading. Put new probe back in the 10.0 solution and it read 10. Grab old probe, recalibrate and get 8.3. The old probe is definitely going out but I couldn't believe it was that far off.

 

[rtparty]

I forgot to add that on the apex the 7.8 is the minimun and as soon as it goes under it, the apex harass me all night with messages and i have to turn it off. I dont like this because if theres a leak or something else i wont know.

Change the alarms. Go into the probe, select advanced and change it.

 

[Anubisxii]

When you installed the co2 scrubber did you notice any change?

Have tried opening a windows? Look at this graph from me opening the patio door because it's dropping into the 60s tonight look how dramatic the swing is. I opened the door at 8 pm

 

[yan2pr]

When you installed the co2 scrubber did you notice any change?

Have tried opening a windows? Look at this graph from me opening the patio door because it's dropping into the 60s tonight look how dramatic the swing is. I opened the door at 8 pm

I did, it was never above 7.7 even during the day, with the scrubber it goes up to 7.86.

 

[yan2pr]

7.8 is fine but no harm in taking some easy/cheap steps to get a better number.

I ask about the probe because I just went through this. I could not get my pH above 7.8 most of the time. Every so often I would see 8.0 and be ecstatic but then back to 7.6 we go.

Just the other day, I decided it was time to replace my old probe. Got out the new probe, soaked the probe and solution in my sump for 30 minutes and then calibrated. BAM! 8.2 instead of the 7.7 my old probe was reading. Put new probe back in the 10.0 solution and it read 10. Grab old probe, recalibrate and get 8.3. The old probe is definitely going out but I couldn't believe it was that far off.

Guess it does hurt to buy a new probe

 

[Jonify]

First off, re-calibrate your probe, and then check it against another kit lying around (API?). That should be your very first stop.

It is reasonable to ask how to raise pH, if you're sitting at 7.8. Many studies have shown, and even RHF agrees, that coral do better at levels closer to 8.2-8.3. It's easier for them to calcify in this range. That said, 7.8 is not a show-stopper, if that's the low end of your range. Anything lower become concerning. Since you've already done most of the recommended things to raise pH, one thing I don't see in your original post, is running kalkwasser. You can either run it in your ATO by starting with about 50% saturation (this is less precise, so you may need to make more frequent adjustments on your other dosing to strike a balance, since evaporation will vary from day to day), or you can set it up on a doser to drip at regular intervals, then all you need to do is determine how much Ca and alkalinity kalk is giving you by testing for a few days, and then make adjustments to your other dosing to compensate. Kalk was the secret weapon when I had tried everything else. Recently, I decided to stop dosing kalk, and instead, be more aggressive about reducing CO2 in the first place. Have had similar results, which brings me to the next thing:

Keeping a few windows cracked 24X7 is also very effective, if you can swing that (needs to be at least 2, so you can get a current of fresh air sweeping through). For instance, in my condo, with the windows shut, the CO2 level is about 1200ppm, which translates to pH at 7.91, with alk at 9dKH. With 2 windows cracked open, CO2 level is about 500ppm, which translates to pH at 8.24. Cracking a few windows (or any continuous fresh air exchange) makes a huge difference, and I was able to stop kalk. If you can't deal with cracked windows, kalk is a fine choice, and has served reefers well for decades.

 

[HermitFish]

If the ph still bothers you, you could setup your to recirculate. It will raise ph even a little more and save on material. BRS has a couple videos how to.

 

[ClownWrangler]

Guess it does hurt to buy a new probe

pH probes are inherently inaccurate and finicky even when new. In lab environments, it is standard procedure to calibrate them with every use. IMO the only useful measurement data might be the day to nigh oscillation amplitude and only if the probe has 3 point calibration given that pH is not a linear scale.

 

[Anubisxii]

When ever I plug in my co2 scrubber the ph instantly spikes, VERY noticeable. I would agree get an other test kit like api for ph and just test to make sure it can't hurt to have something to check it against.

 

[HaveFishWillTravel]

Like the title say besides not winning the Cade tank giveaway, I have been trying to get the PH up to 8.0 but havent been able to get it over 7.86. Heres the list of thing i am currently doing

1. BRS CO2 scrubber attached to the Skimmer.
2. Surface agitation on the main display and the sump
3. Alk dosing spread evenly from 1800 to 0400 to help reduce the night spike of co2.
4. CO2 absorbing plants around the tank. Not sure about this, read about them on google and homedepot guy said yeah right.
5. Fuge with light opposite to the main display lights.
6. A/C on the house is not turning on too much because of the "winter" its 67 degrees right now so for some people it will be summer. I been opening windows as much as i can.

Highest is 7.86 during the day and lowest 7.73 at night.

I want to know if those numbers are "ok" i usually dont chase numbers it just bothers me a lot that i tried raising it and nothing has worked for me, now its personal. I calibrated the apex probe twice btw.

When you test the pH with another reputable test kit, what does it read at night and what does it read during the height of photosynthesis? Try using a couple test kits to see what they read. Based upon the price and reputation of the Apex Neptune system one would expect the probes would be spot on. What I have found with almost every meter, test kit, digital reader, etc. is they all give a readout of something slightly different. After my investment in the Apex, I am not going to throw my hands in the air and tell you or anyone to not pay that close attention to what the probes say because I truly believe they are telling you something. Maybe it is just a consistent account of the pH over time. In any event, to try to allay your frustrations, maybe try looking at what something else says and not rely completely on the one Apex probe?

 

[don_chuwish]

OP I share your frustration. Almost exactly the same story.
CO2 scrubber doesn't seem to help much, but if we're all out of the house for a day or two the pH does go up a tick. Also a little better in warm weather when we can open windows - but not more than 0.1 better. Usually 7.8-7.9 with occasional 8.0* but never over 8.1. Fuge grows chaeto like crazy, I dose Ca and Alk all night... frustrating.

 

[ClownWrangler]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3813339/

Here’s an interesting study indicating that pH swings between 8.0 and 7.77 might actually be beneficial to some corals. Your not too far off from that even if your measurements are accurate.

 

[Jonify]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3813339/

Here’s an interesting study indicating that pH swings between 8.0 and 7.77 might actually be beneficial to some corals. Your not too far off from that even if your measurements are accurate.

Hmm, no, that's not what the study said at all. "In all cases, growth rates were lower at a reduced mean pH, and fluctuations in pH acted additively to further reduce growth."

Further, that was a study about kelp and Coraline algae--not the coral we usually keep in our reefs. They did note that fluctuations between 7.7 and 8.15 had positive reactions with some larvae of the Pocillopora damicornis and Seriatopora hystrix species of coral, but that the adults reacted negatively.

 

[ClownWrangler]

Hmm, no, that's not what the study said at all. "In all cases, growth rates were lower at a reduced mean pH, and fluctuations in pH acted additively to further reduce growth."

Further, that was a study about kelp and Coraline algae--not the coral we usually keep in our reefs. But to the Coraline algae point, the studies authors found that "This reduction in growth was most probably owing to dissolution of calcareous structures during exposure to low pH during the night"

Sorry. I guess we both skimmed over it and missed some parts.

"To date, only one study has manipulated pH over a diurnal cycle mimicking ecologically relevant pH shifts (daytime pH = 8.00, night-time pH = 7.77) to examine short-term (3–6 day) effects on coral recruits [20]. Although this study [20] did not report the pH variability occurring naturally in the organism's habitat, they found that in some instances coral recruits responded positively to both daily fluctuations in pH and to OA"