GFCI Outlet poll

[dopey]

What do fellow Europeans do?

When I first set the tank up a couple years ago(last time I had a tank was in USA) I tried searching but didn't find anything. Concluded the different style of plugs/breakers must make it less of a concern (Just a massive assumption my part).

Oddly enough been talking automation with a fellow geek at work *today*, and he mentioned Jordfelsbrytare -- Which basically means earth fault switch or if I were to assume again same/similar functionality to a GCFI breaker in the USA.

I will get one now, either an adapter for the specific outlet I use, or you can swap the breaker itself.

 

[Brew12]

I just ordered 3 portable GFCI outlets for my 4 tanks lol, scary stuff!

However, I run two 40 watt pentair UV, hoping they dont pop the GFCI like people in this thread are having, any way around this?

UV keeps tripping GFCI??

I would recommend running a second circuit then. Power half of the tank off of one, and half off of the other. One GFCI per circuit and you'll be safe and the tank will have redundant power supplies. FWIW, I have 2 circuits in my tank room and right now they run different tanks. There's a high...

www.reef2reef.com

Not that I am aware of. I'm guessing it is a manufacturing issue.

 

[nereefpat]

Europeans call them RCDs....same thing.

I've seen a couple posts about using ground probes without a GFCI/RCD. That is really dangerous. Any faulty electrical device would have a constant path to ground, and no GFCI to interrupt the circuit.

 

[Brew12]

What do fellow Europeans do?

When I first set the tank up a couple years ago(last time I had a tank was in USA) I tried searching but didn't find anything. Concluded the different style of plugs/breakers must make it less of a concern (Just a massive assumption my part).

Oddly enough been talking automation with a fellow geek at work *today*, and he mentioned Jordfelsbrytare -- Which basically means earth fault switch or if I were to assume again same/similar functionality to a GCFI breaker in the USA.

I will get one now, either an adapter for the specific outlet I use, or you can swap the breaker itself.

In Europe a GFCI is referred to as a RCD or Residual Current Device. Not sure how that would translate into Swedish.

 

[Tuffloud1]

I’ve been running my entire system, anything in or near the water including my return pump for 6 years on gfci outlets.

Tripped 1 time while doing a manual water change when water splashed on the gfci outlet. Other than this, it never tripped for no reason.

I will always run everything in my tank on gfci outlets.

My life and family’s lives are far more important than my reef tank and it’s inhabitants.

 

[piranhaman00]

Europeans call them RCDs....same thing.

I've seen a couple posts about using ground probes without a GFCI/RCD. That is really dangerous. Any faulty electrical device would have a constant path to ground, and no GFCI to interrupt the circuit.

If this is true, there is a lot of misinformation out there on this subject. Since reading this thread, I have been reading around, many many people use grounding probe in place of GFCI. I have grounding probes on all my tanks but no GFCI as I concluded this was the best course of action, evidently not. I will be installing GFCI along with the grounding probes.

 

[Brew12]

If this is true, there is a lot of misinformation out there on this subject. Since reading this thread, I have been reading around, many many people use grounding probe in place of GFCI.

I would never use a grounding probe without a GFCI.

 

[piranhaman00]

I would never use a grounding probe without a GFCI.

I edited my post between you quoting but yes, thanks for that information. I had no idea.

 

[dopey]

In Europe a GFCI is referred to as a RCD or Residual Current Device. Not sure how that would translate into Swedish.

In Europe a GFCI is referred to as a RCD or Residual Current Device. Not sure how that would translate into Swedish.

jordfelsbrytare If you google translate it actually says RCD but the literal translation of jord + fel + brytare is earth fault switch

 

[Dr. Dendrostein]

I’ve been in this hobby for 20 years. GFI use to be the must haves. I my experience. I would put the return pump on a non-gfi. I had too many close calls cuz something made the breaker pop. Lucky I was always around.

There's GFCI strip outlets too. So no having to install one.

 

[fermentedhiker]

I personally had issue with Leviton GFCI receptacles from HD. They didn't nuisance trip though just complete failures. Granted being inside an aquarium stand(peninsula tank so no option to put it outside) where a skimmer ocassionally goes nuts and puts salt mist in the air probably qualifies as a hostile environment. This in spite of mounting inside a weather tight when in use exterior box. I switched to a Pass&Seymour one and haven't had any further issues. Not sure if it was just a bad batch at HD or if the P&S is just made better.

 

[nereefpat]

Also, if GFCI is necessary for a grounding probe, whats the point of the grounding probe?

The grounding probe would cause the GFCI to trimp immediately. Without the probe, the GFCI wouldn't likely trip until you stick your hand in the tank.

 

[piranhaman00]

The grounding probe would cause the GFCI to trimp immediately. Without the probe, the GFCI wouldn't likely trip until you stick your hand in the tank.

Thanks for the information.

Lots of good stuff here for people (like me) not sure on some of this info.

Electrical Safety: GFCI, AFCI, Ground Probes

Here is a write-up regarding Electrical Safety that was posted on our local club forum, I'm interested in any comments, corrections, or suggestions to this. I think it's pretty spot on, I'm an Electrical Engineer myself but that doesn't mean I am an Electrician. Perhaps I can get a review on...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[zalick]

I would never use a grounding probe without a GFCI.

Why is this? I understand a probe would "hide" a ground fault, but wouldn't this be better than nothing since it would provide the best path to ground in event of a ground fault?

I have my equipment on GFCI and the ground probe in a separate non-gfci outlet.

 

[Tuffloud1]

I am probably one of the biggest supporters of using the GFCI/Ground Probe combinations on the forum, but personal safety is a secondary reason I am a huge fan.

If I have a heater or pump fail and allows voltage in the tank, it will also be releasing toxins. Odds are that there will be exposed copper which will corrode much faster if it is energized. Electrical faults also generate very localized heat. This can melt plastics causing toxins to be released.

To protect my inhabitants I want any deranged equipment to be de-energized immediately and I want to know about it ASAP so I can get it out of the water. A GFCI tripping does that for me.

I also understand the concern about reliability. I would never run a larger system on a single GFCI. I use multiple GFCI's to minimize the amount of equipment lost on a trip. My return pump is on it's own independent GFCI. Even if it trips, the power heads in my tank will keep my system alive and healthy for many hours. Much longer than some of the gunk I've seen released from failed equipment.


I don't know anyone who has died from their aquariums, but I do know of problems. An R2R member was working in their small reef (I think it was 20g) and got a shock while standing on a stool. They yanked their arm out as expected, but it caught on the edge of the tank as they fell backward. The tank came over with them and crashed on the floor and they needed stitches from the cut they received. They use GFCI now.

Hi Brew -

Do you have a thread or link outlining the implementation of a grounding probe? I’m running gfci outlets but would like to educate myself on how the grounding probe works and how to use one in conjunction with my gfci outlets.

Thanks for your contributions.

 

[Brew12]

Why is this? I understand a probe would "hide" a ground fault, but wouldn't this be better than nothing since it would provide the best path to ground in event of a ground fault?

I have my equipment on GFCI and the ground probe in a separate non-gfci outlet.

A probe won't hide a fault, it will draw as much current as a fault would allow. You may not get shocked but in a worst case scenario you could have enough current flowing through your system that it acts like a heater. Odds are it will trip the breaker that feeds your tank which, to me, is worse than tripping a GFCI. much worse.

And it doesn't matter where you plug in your GFCI. You could plug it into your neighbors house using an extension cord and it would work the exact same way.

Hi Brew -

Do you have a thread or link outlining the implementation of a grounding probe? I’m running gfci outlets but would like to educate myself on how the grounding probe works and how to use one in conjunction with my gfci outlets.

Thanks for your contributions.

I can't think of one that I wrote specifically along those lines but the concept is fairly easy. The titanium end needs to be in the tank and the plug end needs to be connected to a home ground. You can put it in the sump, and as long as the return pump is running, it will cover the entire system.
When used with a GFCI, as soon as an electrical fault occurs, it will provide a path for current to flow to ground which trips the GFCI. Without the ground probe, you may not get a trip until you put your hand in the tank. The faulted conductor needs to have a path for current to flow before the GFCI is triggered. Excess salt creep can do the same thing. If you have a 3 prong titanium heater it can also act like a ground probe.

Does that make sense?

 

[zalick]

A probe won't hide a fault, it will draw as much current as a fault would allow. You may not get shocked but in a worst case scenario you could have enough current flowing through your system that it acts like a heater. Odds are it will trip the breaker that feeds your tank which, to me, is worse than tripping a GFCI. much worse.

And it doesn't matter where you plug in your GFCI. You could plug it into your neighbors house using an extension cord and it would work the exact same way.


I can't think of one that I wrote specifically along those lines but the concept is fairly easy. The titanium end needs to be in the tank and the plug end needs to be connected to a home ground. You can put it in the sump, and as long as the return pump is running, it will cover the entire system.
When used with a GFCI, as soon as an electrical fault occurs, it will provide a path for current to flow to ground which trips the GFCI. Without the ground probe, you may not get a trip until you put your hand in the tank. The faulted conductor needs to have a path for current to flow before the GFCI is triggered. Excess salt creep can do the same thing. If you have a 3 prong titanium heater it can also act like a ground probe.

Does that make sense?

Thanks. I have 5 finnex non-thermostat grounded heaters. So these will also act as a ground probe?

What I meant by hide the fault is: the probe will hopefully provide a better path to ground than me, so if there is a fault situation, the probe will provide the path to ground and I won't get shocked and thus wouldn't know of the fault.

If I have the probe on an isolated GFCI, separate circuit from the equipment, and it trips, haven't I essentially lost the protection of the probe with potential faults on the equipment still hazardous?( Assuming they aren't GFCI protected)

Thanks again for the advice. I want to make sure I have my probe setup correctly providing the protection it's supposed to!

 

[fermentedhiker]

Thanks. I have 5 finnex non-thermostat grounded heaters. So these will also act as a ground probe?

What I meant by hide the fault is: the probe will hopefully provide a better path to ground than me, so if there is a fault situation, the probe will provide the path to ground and I won't get shocked and thus wouldn't know of the fault.

If I have the probe on an isolated GFCI, separate circuit from the equipment, and it trips, haven't I essentially lost the protection of the probe with potential faults on the equipment still hazardous?( Assuming they aren't GFCI protected)

Thanks again for the advice. I want to make sure I have my probe setup correctly providing the protection it's supposed to!
[/QUOTE]
When a GFCI trips it has no effect on the mechanical ground connection(third prong) so a ground probe is still functional regardless.

 

[flsalty]

I'm going to say optional because I've never used one in all my years of fish keeping. The only exception was when I installed an outlet out back for a pond pump.

 

[Tuffloud1]

A probe won't hide a fault, it will draw as much current as a fault would allow. You may not get shocked but in a worst case scenario you could have enough current flowing through your system that it acts like a heater. Odds are it will trip the breaker that feeds your tank which, to me, is worse than tripping a GFCI. much worse.

And it doesn't matter where you plug in your GFCI. You could plug it into your neighbors house using an extension cord and it would work the exact same way.


I can't think of one that I wrote specifically along those lines but the concept is fairly easy. The titanium end needs to be in the tank and the plug end needs to be connected to a home ground. You can put it in the sump, and as long as the return pump is running, it will cover the entire system.
When used with a GFCI, as soon as an electrical fault occurs, it will provide a path for current to flow to ground which trips the GFCI. Without the ground probe, you may not get a trip until you put your hand in the tank. The faulted conductor needs to have a path for current to flow before the GFCI is triggered. Excess salt creep can do the same thing. If you have a 3 prong titanium heater it can also act like a ground probe.

Does that make sense?

Thanks Brew!

So the titanium heater will work as a ground probe at all times even though it is connected to a controller which cuts its power?

If I understand correctly, the stray voltage will run through the titanium heater and back through the gfci wall outlet or any outlet and then to the ground at the house panel (where all grounds lead to). This in turn will set off the gfci outlet associated with the tank?

So whatever gfci outlet that the device with stray voltage is plugged into will be the one that trips, correct?

Thanks for all your help!