Global Warming, Where do you stand? Poll

[Pmj]

Most often, the reason paradigm-shifting data are ignored is because of political pressure. Scientists have historically done pretty well at accepting paradigm shifts as soon as the data indicated the shift was warranted. It is the uninformed public and policymakers who resist the evidence based shifts. The heliocentric solar system, evolution by natural selection, life leads to life (and the absence of spontaneous generation of life), microbes as the source of infections (and not "bad air"), DNA as the molecular entity of inheritance, etc. These all overturned previous paradigms with new data. The scientific community generally embraced the evidence (as it accumulated), but public acceptance on all these issues was very delayed due to religious, political, or philosophical reasons.

Yes, it's projection. No one would believe the scientists if they found the truth b/c of politics, but in reality, they are the ones not believing the scientists b/c of politics.

 

[Mattrg02]

Since we want some numbers:

Let's talk about the size of an array vs power output. Industry standard is around 1MW DC per 7 acres. I'll let the new engineer tell us how much land area we need to handle the USA energy needs. Look up peak power, not average, and see what you'll need, just space alone.

Then keep in mind that transmission lines cost US, a smallish utility, $1M per mile to build. A substation for this cost is about $2M to build.

Oh, imagine the permits required to clear land as well.

Matt

 

[SPSREEFS]

Not a single person is this thread (that I am aware of) is a trained climatologist. Nearly all who are climatologists agree on the basic principles and predictions, with differences being in the timing and extent of the effect of greenhouse gases on the very complex system which is earth climate.

So when untrained people, most of whom have not actually read and technically evaluated the peer reviewed articles to clearly identify what specifically they think is wrong with a given model, say they are are not convinced by the many trained experts around the world, I do not give equal weight to their opinions as to the experts.

If someone has a specific concern with an assumption of a specific model, that's great. That's what science is, and it takes place in the scientific community all the time. That said, no one in this thread is going to be able to assess whether a particular concern has any merit because none of us have the needed training or familiarity with the exact details of the models to give an adequate response.

 

[SPSREEFS]

They want it to get hotter. While they tell you its a crises, they get their hands DEEPER in your pockets. Many scientists lie through their teeth. Its sad, but there paycheck or grant depends on it.
Its also very sad, because they have literally brainwashed millions of students in universities. The professors are in on it, because they work for the government. The government is in on it, so they can make a case for charging YOU more money to combat it.
Yet, they do not know whats causing it.
50 years ago, it was global cooling. We where all going to freeze!
I had a man come to my door wanting to sell me solar. He told me I would make my money back in 15 years. And everyone in my neighborhood is doing it!!!!
I walked him to the sidewalk. I asked him to point out all the people with solar panels. There was one house. Out of maybe 50 we could see.
My electric bill is 90-100.00 a month. And I have no maintenance on it!!! No panels to break, no batteries to wear out, no worries if I ever have to replace my roof. No lean on my home because their panels sit on my roof. And if I sell it, I dont have to talk the buyers into signing a contract to take it over. If they wont, I have to pay 30,000.00 to get out of it!
I changed over to led when the prices on bulbs dropped for my home. I went LED over my reef about 4 years ago and love it!!!
So do I believe in climate change? Sure maybe a little. Has the climate changed since God created this planet? Yessir, and it will continue to change.
Another problem is many take planet earth as their God. Not me! God himself created me, and had instructed us to live off the land, plant crops, grow food and multiply.
AND THAT MY FRIENDS IS EXACTLY WHAT I AM DOING. I DO NOT DO WHAT EVERYONE ELSE SAYS OR DOES. I try to do my best to follow Gods laws. And if YOU do, you will not worry and you will be at peace.
Im a Christian/Jew/Italian/Redneck, and proud of it........

 

[Tautog]

It's a funny topic, remember all the stuff about No Ozone at the polar caps? No one ever mentioned it was too cold to be there!!!
But, here's something the media never talks about! Did you know, or even wonder why we have colder winters and hotter summers??? No one ever talks about this planet, like most, as they rotate the angle, or axis angle to the Sun increases. Wheather you believe it or not, wouldn't an increased angle explain a lot. In NYC, the west side of Manhattan piers are under repair only now after a 100-150 yrs. Why only now? Would you believe the water is cleaner? Well it is! Worms have only now penetrated the chemical, oil-soaked, and nasty wood. Less factory pollution = cleaner water! Maybe, thank GOD it's saltwater!!!

 

[Pmj]

It's a funny topic, remember all the stuff about No Ozone at the polar caps? ...

You realize why the ozone "stuff" is less of an issue now is because countries around the world banned what was contributing to it?

 

[Mattrg02]

They want it to get hotter. While they tell you its a crises, they get their hands DEEPER in your pockets. Many scientists lie through their teeth. Its sad, but there paycheck or grant depends on it.
Its also very sad, because they have literally brainwashed millions of students in universities. The professors are in on it, because they work for the government. The government is in on it, so they can make a case for charging YOU more money to combat it.
Yet, they do not know whats causing it.
50 years ago, it was global cooling. We where all going to freeze!
I had a man come to my door wanting to sell me solar. He told me I would make my money back in 15 years. And everyone in my neighborhood is doing it!!!!
I walked him to the sidewalk. I asked him to point out all the people with solar panels. There was one house. Out of maybe 50 we could see.
My electric bill is 90-100.00 a month. And I have no maintenance on it!!! No panels to break, no batteries to wear out, no worries if I ever have to replace my roof. No lean on my home because their panels sit on my roof. And if I sell it, I dont have to talk the buyers into signing a contract to take it over. If they wont, I have to pay 30,000.00 to get out of it!
I changed over to led when the prices on bulbs dropped for my home. I went LED over my reef about 4 years ago and love it!!!
So do I believe in climate change? Sure maybe a little. Has the climate changed since God created this planet? Yessir, and it will continue to change.
Another problem is many take planet earth as their God. Not me! God himself created me, and had instructed us to live off the land, plant crops, grow food and multiply.
AND THAT MY FRIENDS IS EXACTLY WHAT I AM DOING. I DO NOT DO WHAT EVERYONE ELSE SAYS OR DOES. I try to do my best to follow Gods laws. And if YOU do, you will not worry and you will be at peace.
Im a Christian/Jew/Italian/Redneck, and proud of it........

Oh man, could I go into talking about residential solar! People have NO idea what they are getting into with that stuff and it is very sad to see it happening to my Members.

I'll just say this: DO NOT even consider it until after you have spoken to your utility FIRST!

You'll want to know if:
1-They do Net Meterkng, which my utility does.
2-How much your compensation is for kWh produced in excess of your usage. It's probably 3 cents per kWh, which is the avoided cost.

-Matt

 

[Pmj]

Oh man, could I go into talking about residential solar! People have NO idea what they are getting into with that stuff and it is very sad to see it happening to my Members.

I'll just say this: DO NOT even consider it until after you have spoken to your utility FIRST!

You'll want to know if:
1-They do Net Meterkng, which my utility does.
2-How much your compensation is for kWh produced in excess of your usage. It's probably 3 cents per kWh, which is the avoided cost.

-Matt

Are you going to tell us why those questions are important? Can you expound a little more about it in general?

 

[Mark Gray]

OH maybe the planet is warming but this has happened before, we have gone through many different changes, We have has Ice ages whe have had massive floods we have had asteroids hit the earth. Is man affecting the palnt that much I don't think so. I see many reports that the Ocean Reefs are dyeing, I have been diving in The Philippines Thailand and just recently Fiji but all within the last 9 months, to me the reefs looked great very heathy.

 

[cracker]

I feel Humble Fish nailed it all in post #3. I do believe humanity is effecting the planet,however Mother Nature has fail safes for just this sort of thing. Once we tip the balance Mom will take care of it. In a million years or so all will be back to usual .

 

[SPSREEFS]

Oh man, could I go into talking about residential solar! People have NO idea what they are getting into with that stuff and it is very sad to see it happening to my Members.

I'll just say this: DO NOT even consider it until after you have spoken to your utility FIRST!

You'll want to know if:
1-They do Net Meterkng, which my utility does.
2-How much your compensation is for kWh produced in excess of your usage. It's probably 3 cents per kWh, which is the avoided cost.

-Matt

Thank you Matt. I figured as much. I don't want their claws dug into my property over a solar panel install! Just more junk to worry about maintaining! No thank you!

 

[SPSREEFS]

One of the biggest liberal sites that copies and pastes total garbage on global warming and the reefs is reef builders!!
I have called out Jake Adams many a time. And i was called a Jesus freak and alot of other not so nice things. Actually the Jesus freak was fine by me![emoji6]

 

[SPSREEFS]

By the way, they lost alot of credibility by their hateful replies. I proved him wrong at every point, and he's still posting garbage to this day trying to counter the health of reefs around the world. Many are very very healthy. And new ones are being discovered all the time....

 

[Reefinometry]

Well I'm definitely glad I brought this debate up. It's great to see all the different points of view on this subject and how people make their own decisions about this matter. Thank you guys!

 

[1.0reef]

IMO humans are contributing and damaging the planet, I give us 60-80 years until we're mostly dead.

 

[1.0reef]

To me this is an inaccurate question. Is there climate change or global warming would be more accurate. The earth has been going through climate shifts for millennia....the earth is used to this.....could we be pushing it a bit faster.....maybe ....but maybe not. Co2 gas is naturally emitted by volcanos and vents in the ocean all day long....every day....you can only blame so much on humans impacting nature...

One of the main arguments is that humans are causing an imbalance. Let's say before our species the planet as a whole had 100 units of CO2 being released from living organisms, volcanoes, etc and nearly that exact amount was absorbed back by plant life, phytoplankton, etc. A prominent idea is that humans are releasing more, event if is a slight amount, and causing devastation to forests and other areas that would absorb the CO2 causing a slight imbalance that accumulates overtime.

 

[1.0reef]

Growing up in the seventies we were all warned about the coming ice age ! In the forth grade one of our weekly reader magazines showed a glacier cutting across Kansas city (where which I live) by 1990!! Also the world was going to out populate our food supply by the year 2000! It's all about control and money ! Google time magazine's coming ice age and check out the scientific studies that they base there info on. That didn't work for them so they have changed it to global warming, climate change, tell a lie long enough and people will start to believe it!!!!!! Just my two cents!

Scientists can be wrong, they're humans too. Additionally the tactics and equipment available then isn't up to par by modern standards, I doubt they had the data of ancient climatic records that we do now either. Make sure to take that into account.

 

[cracker]

One good point to think about. Reef Keepers are beginning to learn how to breed & raise salt fishes and corals. Soon we may be keeping only captive animals in our tanks. This will be a big help to Mother Nature !

 

[Maritimer]

Is the climate we've known changing? Absolutely.

Is human activity contributing to that change? Pretty high probability.

Has climate changed throughout history and prehistory? Yup.
If you go back 21,000 years, the spot where I'm sitting right now was covered by a glacier; a moving river of solid ice. Boston and New York City? Nah, you couldn't have lived in those places. They were underwater - and the water was frozen. The coastline may have been as far out as the Continental Shelf.
If you go back 35 million years or so, there was open fresh water in the Arctic Circle, and water-ferns were growing in the shallows of ponds. Boston and New York? Probably not, as I'd expect them to have been underwater.
If you go back 80 million years or so, there was a warm, shallow sea splitting North America in two. Go dig a hole in Kansas or Nebraska - you might just find a sea-monster. Pretty much any of the great coastal cities of today would have been inhabited by nautiloids and sharks, but a little damp for my tastes.

Are sea levels rising now? Yup.
Home values in the great coastal cities will give the banking industry a whole new meaning for "underwater" - and people will want to head inland, if the trend continues.

Will Earth survive? Yeah - though many individual species may not. Earth has gotten through that sort of thing before, most notably between the Permian and Triassic periods.

Does Earth care a hang if humans are among the species which go extinct?

Nope. Not even a little.

So, do we think about us and our world, or the world that our children and grandchildren will have to adapt to?

~Bruce

 

[Mattrg02]

Are you going to tell us why those questions are important? Can you expound a little more about it in general?

Everyone assumes that solar is the way to go for residential use. It isn't, at least, until costs have come down and storage has made leaps and bounds.

Unless your utility has a Net Meter program, the only benefit you see from your system is when your system is running while your appliances are running.

What if you turn your AC off? Are you going to cut your system off too? If you've tied your system to your breaker, then the utility will get your energy when you aren't using it.

How about if you do have Net Metering? What about if you wind up with excess solar energy after your bill has been offset, 100%, by it? You may or may not get compensation for it. What you won't get, is the same retail rate you pay. You'll, at best, get the avoided cost, which is almost nothing.

Solar companies don't explain any of this. They give you a payback time using very high retail rates in mind. They then point the finger at the utility when their little trick is discovered.

So you guys see, a lot of this going green stuff has a lot of BS mixed in. It makes a lot of us start questioning each and every thing. Big oil has their hand in the jar as do the green companies.

Economies of scale make the most sense. Eventually we will have utility scale solar for less than a coal plant can offer. It won't be soon, nor will storage be anytime soon. We are getting there though. The world needs to be patient and chill out.

Matt