Global Warming, Where do you stand? Poll

[Bluecbs]

The motto 'save the planet' should be replaced by 'save ourselves'....

 

[Maritimer]

Co2 levels are a lagging indicator to temperature. Like 800 years lagging. In other words the climate 800 years ago was pretty hot. An the oceans released a lot of Co2. Oh, no. I think it is a cottage industry created by Al Gore. Lol reaserchers have to play the game in order to get research funding. You have to believe in climate change order to be a card carrying progressive. Sorry, first post is going to makesome people mad.
:(

Welcome to Reef2Reef, Stlouphil! Glad you joined our discussion!

Do try to go easy on the politics - spirited debate is welcome, but the political stuff just seems to start everything spiraling downhill.

~Bruce

 

[1.0reef]

In all fairness a few billion less people would be a quicker and easier solution... just bad in other (obvious) ways...

 

[ReeferBob]

That does seem a bit harsh. I suppose I am a little more confident that we will pull back from the brink before it comes to that. I'm a lot more confident that we are capable of making the shift in terms of our understanding and technology, though worried that we won't decide to until it's too late.

And while I don't think that we will wipe out all life on the planet, it does seem clear that if for whatever reason we just kept going the way we have gone, we will destroy a lot of it, and a lot of us as well. Which doesn't seem like an acceptable option to me.

I suppose I'm just surprised that for a hobby like ours with such a passionate group and that is so intimately tied to a leading edge indicator of this problem, that there is not more of a movement around it.


Tony

You assume that everyone believes what you believe. Is it possible that someone can care about the planet without believing that man plays a significant role in climate change? I find that most people that are in the pro-man-made-global-warming camp have no tolerance for other opinions. It is their way or the highway. Your post sounds like you might be in this camp. I certainly hope not. For you to dictate what is wrong, who is wrong, and what must be done to solve it (or at least placate the believers) never ends up attracting new support and you end up in an echo chamber preaching to the choir and congratulating the same people over and over for agreeing with you.

 

[Lasse]

Co2 levels are a lagging indicator to temperature. Like 800 years lagging. In other words the climate 800 years ago was pretty hot. An the oceans released a lot of Co2. Oh, no. I think it is a cottage industry created by Al Gore. Lol reaserchers have to play the game in order to get research funding. You have to believe in climate change order to be a card carrying progressive. Sorry, first post is going to makesome people mad.
:(

This is not true (not even an alternative fact) according to the rise of CO2 content in the atmosphere since 1950. If it should be true (that the rise of around 100 ppm since 1950 depends of CO2 released from the oceans) – you should see a pH rise in the Oceans – you do not – instead you see a pH depletion indicate that the Oceans now works as CO2 sink and the rise has been in the atmosphere itself. This is not a theory – it’s according to the physical/chemical laws of the air/water interface

Sincerely Lasse

 

[jgvergo]

That may well be a measure of how much people believe that sea levels are rising. What people believe doesn't change the water line though.

If even a small but significant percentage of people thought the water line was moving, the demand would go down, which in turn would lower the price. But that does not seem o be happening.

 

[jgvergo]

But as written, the statement implies otherwise.

This is why communication is an art. I did not mean to imply anything of the sort. I am a GW skeptic and I don't consider myself to be anti-environment!

 

[Humblefish]

Let's just assume that global warming/climate change is real and being caused by human activity.

What changes would you like to see happen? Both immediate and long-term...

 

[SPSREEFS]

You can talk to Global Warming theorists until you are blue in the face! They will NEVER give it up. Many of them make a living from it. To many, its their religion. And they brainwash as many as they can.
I dont like to assume anything. To many variables....................

 

[samnaz]

You can talk to Global Warming theorists until you are blue in the face! They will NEVER give it up. Many of them make a living from it. To many, its their religion. And they brainwash as many as they can.
I dont like to assume anything. To many variables....................

What do you think global warming theorists have to gain by brainwashing as many people as they can?

 

[Tristren]

If even a small but significant percentage of people thought the water line was moving, the demand would go down, which in turn would lower the price. But that does not seem o be happening.

Well, I suppose it is more accurate to say that if a significant percentage of people thought that the water line was moving enough to impact their properties and also that it couldn't be fixed by building retaining walls or trucking in sand or something, then demand would go down.

But again, even if 100% of waterfront property owners didn't believe that sea level was rising, that wouldn't change the level of the sea. And sea level is easy enough to measure and isn't tied to what people think about future trends or root causes:
https://climate.nasa.gov/vital-signs/sea-level/

 

[Tristren]

You assume that everyone believes what you believe. Is it possible that someone can care about the planet without believing that man plays a significant role in climate change? I find that most people that are in the pro-man-made-global-warming camp have no tolerance for other opinions. It is their way or the highway. Your post sounds like you might be in this camp. I certainly hope not. For you to dictate what is wrong, who is wrong, and what must be done to solve it (or at least placate the believers) never ends up attracting new support and you end up in an echo chamber preaching to the choir and congratulating the same people over and over for agreeing with you.

I am certainly not meaning to say that if someone does not believe that man made climate change is real that they don't care about the planet / is a bad person / is stupid etc... so I apologize if that is how I came across.
Maybe I should clarify though and say that I'm not from the States. I'm Canadian. So climate change has less of a political overtone (not no political overtone but less on the "is this real" and more on the "what should we do about it and how to balance that with jobs).

You are right though, in that I did assume that most people in the hobby believe that climate change is real and man made. But that is because most people in general believe that. The results of the poll on this thread point to that (though the question was vague and didn't address the man made side). But even broad public polls in the US show that most americans believe that climate change is real and caused by human activities:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/206030/global-warming-concern-three-decade-high.aspx
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-climatechange-poll-idUSKBN18X198

So that is why I was surprised that there wasn't more of an emphasis on the issue. Not because I was equating it with being good or bad, or with being pro or anti environment. Just because I didn't realize there would be this kind of division or debate on the underlying statement and facts.

 

[Humblefish]

You can talk to Global Warming theorists until you are blue in the face! They will NEVER give it up. Many of them make a living from it. To many, its their religion. And they brainwash as many as they can.
I dont like to assume anything. To many variables....................

I think both sides feel the other side is too adamant in their beliefs. A sign of the times. Best to just kick back and see how this all plays out. Nothing is going to change anytime soon anyway. ;)

 

[SPSREEFS]

What do you think global warming theorists have to gain by brainwashing as many people as they can?

PLEASE REREAD WHAT YOU JUST REPLIED TO.....

 

[ReeferBob]

I am certainly not meaning to say that if someone does not believe that man made climate change is real that they don't care about the planet / is a bad person / is stupid etc... so I apologize if that is how I came across.
Maybe I should clarify though and say that I'm not from the States. I'm Canadian. So climate change has less of a political overtone (not no political overtone but less on the "is this real" and more on the "what should we do about it and how to balance that with jobs).

You are right though, in that I did assume that most people in the hobby believe that climate change is real and man made. But that is because most people in general believe that. The results of the poll on this thread point to that (though the question was vague and didn't address the man made side). But even broad public polls in the US show that most americans believe that climate change is real and caused by human activities:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/206030/global-warming-concern-three-decade-high.aspx
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-climatechange-poll-idUSKBN18X198

So that is why I was surprised that there wasn't more of an emphasis on the issue. Not because I was equating it with being good or bad, or with being pro or anti environment. Just because I didn't realize there would be this kind of division or debate on the underlying statement and facts.

It really isn't that big of a surprise that most people believe the man-made theory. The main-stream-media (MSM) has an agenda that they push. They constantly push the man caused theory and never report anything on any other theories. It is only those that care to enlighten themselves through other sources or hear somehow that there is an apposing view point and investigate that don't believe the man-caused theory. I think most people that have been exposed to both theories tend to not believe man has a significant role. But there is simply no exposure to other theories for most people since they stay within MSM lines. The MSM is a very effective brainwashing machine. By presenting only one side of an argument (presented as the whole argument), they sway the masses. Those that don't believe are portrayed as kooks. Never do they have a discussion of the evidence against man-caused, only that there are those that don't believe and that these people also think the Earth is flat.

 

[SPSREEFS]

It really isn't that big of a surprise that most people believe the man-made theory. The main-stream-media (MSM) has an agenda that they push. They constantly push the man caused theory and never report anything on any other theories. It is only those that care to enlighten themselves through other sources or hear somehow that there is an apposing view point and investigate that don't believe the man-caused theory. I think most people that have been exposed to both theories tend to not believe man has a significant role. But there is simply no exposure to other theories for most people since they stay within MSM lines. The MSM is a very effective brainwashing machine. By presenting only one side of an argument (presented as the whole argument), they sway the masses. Those that don't believe are portrayed as kooks. Never do they have a discussion of the evidence against man-caused, only that there are those that don't believe and that these people also think the Earth is flat.

Yes, I heard that the earth is flat now! Yet it looks really round to me. But they tell me its because my lenses in my eyes are curved! So I see it as round. When flying a plane, you constantly have to adjust for altitude. If you start at point A, you will end up back at point A.
LOL, yessir we are in strange times for sure.

 

[Lasse]

Let's just assume that global warming/climate change is real and being caused by human activity.

What changes would you like to see happen? Both immediate and long-term...

I am most concerned about the increased CO2 concentrations in the atmosphere (during my lifetime, the concentration has increased by about 25% after standing still for almost 2000 years) and the effect of carbon dioxide on the pH of the seas. CO2 is also a greenhouse gas that, together with methane and other gases, affects the global temperature.

Its complete clear that the reason for this increase of CO2 concentration depends on the fact that we are “digging” up ancient carbon sinks like coal, gas and oil and through combustion (in one or another way) convert them to carbon dioxide in the air. All of these carbon sources will not stay in the air because we have some sinks like the ocean there the CO2 will be converted to HCO3 and CO3 but the downside of this - is lowering of the pH of the seas.

Some of the CO2 will be converted to green plants but only the fact that the concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere has risen with 25 % since 1950 shows that we have a real problem.

If we shall have the hobbies view of the problem in mind - lowering of pH and a warmer sea water is not a good combination for corals.

What to do?

One possible way has already started with the Paris agreement– only two countries has not sign it and one other have left it. The way out of this mess is to let the fossil fuels be in the earth and start development of new technology build on recirculation, clean energy sources and sustainability – not only to decline CO2 emissions.

Sweden, as an example, has the goal to be totally independent of fossil fuels around 2050. The same with the EU – but every country put up their own goals and timespan. China and India must do it – not for the sake of some coral but for the sake for their own population and civilization.

Another way – as you have indicated in an earlier post – someone start World War III or pick up a virus like Ebola and spread it over the world and the survives start a new cycle of mankind.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[dbl]

TO ALL:

We can all enjoy a healthy conversation, but per the ToS, no political commentary is allowed. Also, we should strive to be respectful to each other even in disagreement. A number of posts from today have been deleted to keep this thread on track. Please remember to ToS when posting.

Thanks...Team R2R

 

[SPSREEFS]

Global Warming to me is nothing more then a hoax. There are more important things and much larger threats in my opinion.
Terrorism being at the top of my list.......

 

[7hogwarts]

Since the oceans are getting warmer and making it inhospitable for many corals, that would leave me to believe that there are other areas where it has been too cool for corals in the past. Shouldn't we be beginning to see new coral reefs in areas where there were previously none?