Has Supply Exceeded Demand?

[Js.Aqua.Project]

Are there any local clubs or groups that have frag swaps near Central Florida? Orlando Reef Caretakers Association was great years ago, but they don't have meeting anymore that I know of.

I have been wondering the same thing.

So the Ocala Reef Club stopped meeting because of Covid but we are working on starting up again, we have members that still chat here. Since we are centrally located between Jacksonville, Orlando, and Tampa if you guys wanted to join us for a true no sales, trade only frag swap we'd be up for hosting. Just let us know.

 

[GrandAdmiralMarshal]

Where I live, we have three saltwater fish/coral stores plus Petco. The 3 all sell the same corals plus most of the reefers already have the ones they are presenting. Online, you want to purchase a $50 coral the shipping fee seems to be an additional $40 to $50 dollars. I usually try Craig's list to find people leaving the hobby to purchase corals I already don't possess. With such a limited number of reefers, the supply/cost are more than the demand.

 

[albano]

So the Ocala Reef Club stopped meeting because of Covid but we are working on starting up again, we have members that still chat here. Since we are centrally located between Jacksonville, Orlando, and Tampa if you guys wanted to join us for a true no sales, trade only frag swap we'd be up for hosting. Just let us know.

That sounds great… when you start a NY chapter, let me know!

 

[GrandAdmiralMarshal]

Where I reside their are 3 Reef stores and a course Petco. They all are offering the same corals and most of the reefers in the area seem to already possess the ones they are selling. If you go online, the shipping cost for one coral almost equals the price of the coral you are selecting. I usually will not purchase a coral over $100 dollars due to the chance of it dying and I am supporting a few kids in collage. I strongly believe the supply and cost out weigh the demand now.

 

[doylef]

Yall are killing me with talking about giving coral away. I just started a coral tank and no one around here I know gives coral away for a smaller price or for free. Only the LFS I deal with has corals. I love zoas and seem to do good with them but they seem to really love them at my LFS. Acans do good too in my tank. I am new at this and struggling with some of the corals. I have thought about fragging some when they get bigger just to give to people but not to sell.

 

[GrandAdmiralMarshal]

I included Petco due to needing to pick up dog & cat food so I will usually look at their selections. I have gotten lucky many times there. Bought a Feather worm with a beautiful blue sponge on it for $20 bucks five years ago and they both are doing well with the sponge now 3x bigger. Got a Royal Tang for the price of a Damsel for $7 dollars due to them not knowing what they were going a couple of years ago and he is doing awesome in my tank.

 

[Reefer Matt]

Yall are killing me with talking about giving coral away. I just started a coral tank and no one around here I know gives coral away for a smaller price or for free. Only the LFS I deal with has corals. I love zoas and seem to do good with them but they seem to really love them at my LFS. Acans do good too in my tank. I am new at this and struggling with some of the corals. I have thought about fragging some when they get bigger just to give to people but not to sell.

I know what you mean, but it gets worse than giving away so to speak. Many coral get thrown away too. The "undesirables". I always tell people who are looking to start fragging to only do it if you enjoy having a lot of coral around, because they don't all sell.

 

[PotatoPig]

For slow growing and demanding corals there’s going to be something of a floor for cost as a commercial venture - there are significant equipment costs, ongoing materials costs (salt/supplements), energy costs, and then the process is fairly labor intensive (algae control, water changes, maintenance, pest control, etc) along with the occasional risk of stock loss due to these things being fairly delicate.

For things like Zoas and other in-demand soft coarse I can see it being viable enough, but even then it’s clear commercial operations are making their money from sourcing and cultivating currently rare and high demand versions.

For hard corals you’re going to hit an an operational cost floor much sooner.

IOW - there’s reasons why it’s tough for new entrants to commercial cultivation to have a viable business and there’s a floor to costs that will keep some varieties expensive regardless of supply vs demand for anyone trying to run a business rather than sell frags generated by their tanks to offset hobby costs.

You can fill up a tank quickly for cheap if you don’t have to have the latest and greatest.

This is me. I’m new at this and almost all my corals are from the sale rack. I could spend 5x as much going after slightly different hues and so on, but just pick out whatever is pretty that the LFS is currently clearing out.

 

[leon.1980]

I'm always offering free local pick ups for anything in my tanks, I'm tired of throwing coral away it's hard to give coral away sometimes I have frag racks that are overgrown and coral I neglect to trim just because it's hard to trow coral out! HINT HINT!

I feel this way about my current situation. I have 7 btas that 8 months ago were 1! Nobody wants them but I refuse to toss them. They are a living thing. I don’t want to throw it away like it’s trash!
Btw, were you from? I’ll give you some btas. Trade for some of those throw always? Lol.

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

I feel this way about my current situation. I have 7 btas that 8 months ago were 1! Nobody wants them but I refuse to toss them. They are a living thing. I don’t want to throw it away like it’s trash!
Btw, were you from? I’ll give you some btas. Trade for some of those throw always? Lol.

I'm in pinellas county, I don't keep bubble tips, or any anemones, and don't require any trades but I have quite a few nice acros, montipora, and birds nests to give away. I appreciate the trade offer

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

It makes me sad, im over in az and I came to one of my lfs that I would go to all the time to check in and I saw colonies that were half dead or had massive growth the last time I was there. To be fair, I feel like its mainly prices that is the real gate keeper around here. And this store owner I know isnt doing it for the money as well. That and I feel like arizona doesnt have that big of a salt water fish community like for example over by cali or florida. Maybe prices and community size?

Then you're not tapped in, or not in the right location. Herr in phoenix there's a healthy community.

 

[Rusty_L_Shackleford]

That last paragraph is relatable, I started out halfway through college its super rare when I go trade corals/buy/sell that I will met someone around my age ~23 and I think a lot of it has to deal with the prices that some of these corals go and theres no way for a broke student to afford that lol unless they just go with a softie tank.

Yea, this is definitely not a cheap hobby. My best advice is

1) by used gear (except heaters) whenever possible. If you're patient you can get nice stuff for pennies on the dollar. Facebook marketplace is your friend. I got my red sea 130dd for $250. My wife's biocube was $140. Both were basically plug and play systems just add water, rock and livestock.

2) DIY. If you're handy you can yourself a lot of money. For example I use Randy's diy 2 patt for dosing. For my lights I upgraded when I stuffed a used led conversion kit into my existing hood.

2) ignore the fancy names on corals, just buy what you like. Some of my favorite pieces were cheap no name mystery frags. Join a club if there's one near you.

 

[doylef]

I know what you mean, but it gets worse than giving away so to speak. Many coral get thrown away too. The "undesirables". I always tell people who are looking to start fragging to only do it if you enjoy having a lot of coral around, because they don't all sell.

Sad that corals get thrown away. They are a living thing also and I love the very few that I have now. Think a total of 8 frags but I love my few right now. I want a montipora and mushroom so bad. I will get me some of those one day. If someone was local to me I would take anything they didnt want. I would set up another tank if I had to. I like fooling with them.

 

[cvicente]

I was thinking about reefing today and how easy it has become to grow coral out for fragging. It seems more and more Reefers are starting coral fragging businesses these days.

I know not everyone shares the same success, but I think those that stick with it will eventually become successful.

With that said, do you think that the coral frag market is oversaturated, balanced, or not enough?

It could be anything, without reliable statistics it's too difficult to determine nationwide. At least where I live more people are getting out of the hobby than the ones getting in. I see this everyday, people selling whole systems for different reasons and upgrading is not one of them. Too difficult for the average hobbyist, too expensive for an average budget. Frustration far exceeds success in this hobby. Trends kill this hobby, many growers stock with corals they cannot sell because they are not trendy anymore. To answer your question, at least in my area, supply far exceeds the demand.

 

[Ef4life]

Sad that corals get thrown away. They are a living thing also and I love the very few that I have now. Think a total of 8 frags but I love my few right now. I want a montipora and mushroom so bad. I will get me some of those one day. If someone was local to me I would take anything they didnt want. I would set up another tank if I had to. I like fooling with them.

it’s like trimming your lawn sometimes. I absolutely love monti cap. It grows so fast and shades everything so i pull out huge chunks just to toss and let it grow again. It never looks the same twice.

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

it’s like trimming your lawn sometimes. I absolutely love monti cap. It grows so fast and shades everything so i pull out huge chunks just to toss and let it grow again. It never looks the same twice.

I usually save up the skeleton and toss it back into the calcium reactor.

 

[jda]

Around me, and even on this board, folks saw the super high prices during/after COVID and many decided to become basement reefers. By the time that they all got set up and had things to sell, demand for named corals has waned a bit, more competition has arrived and other prices have fallen.

A few of the basement reefers around me bring in fish wholesale since these prices are more stable. The basement folks can undercut a LFS fish sales with their super low overhead.

This all happened after the nemo/biocube generation jump started the hobby... stores, home sellers, etc popped up everywhere and the next downturn took many of them out. The oversupply that some of us are talking about is a warning sign. The stores and basement hobbyists that make it through the downturn with stock to sell on the other side will come out well because it takes time for new entrepreneurs to set up, grow and be able to sell.

 

[Reefer Matt]

Around me, and even on this board, folks saw the super high prices during/after COVID and many decided to become basement reefers. By the time that they all got set up and had things to sell, demand for named corals has waned a bit, more competition has arrived and other prices have fallen.

A few of the basement reefers around me bring in fish wholesale since these prices are more stable. The basement folks can undercut a LFS fish sales with their super low overhead.

This all happened after the nemo/biocube generation jump started the hobby... stores, home sellers, etc popped up everywhere and the next downturn took many of them out. The oversupply that some of us are talking about is a warning sign. The stores and basement hobbyists that make it through the downturn with stock to sell on the other side will come out well because it takes time for new entrepreneurs to set up, grow and be able to sell.

Yeah, covid changed the retail game, imo. Many wholesalers and manufacturers no longer require a retailer to have a physical store. So now anyone can start a business for cheap and get access to wholesale inventory. As seen in many frag swaps.

 

[jda]

Wholesalers relaxing their requirements for entry is another sign that interest/business is waning.

 

[i cant think]

I was thinking about reefing today and how easy it has become to grow coral out for fragging. It seems more and more Reefers are starting coral fragging businesses these days.

I know not everyone shares the same success, but I think those that stick with it will eventually become successful.

With that said, do you think that the coral frag market is oversaturated, balanced, or not enough?

Honestly, it’s oversaturated on the SPS side IMO. I see a ton of SPS popping up but honestly, there’s fewer LPS and the LPS that does show up a lot is costing the middle treble digits. It’s mainly torches, hammers, acans and chalices I see on the market for LPS. Softies seem to be almost nonexistent and NPS have pretty much just dropped off altogether.