Hawaii ban is official.

[shred5]

a person could also argue the mortality of the fish that never leave the ocean too. i think we would be foolish to believe every animal is living a full life without incident.
The bottom line is life isn't easy in either environment and it's difficult to know for sure how detrimental the hobbyists effect is and raises ethical questions especially when some species can be successfully captive bred.

I have heard the same number that Cal1ore said too. I do not think it is that low anymore but it is not very high either. When I look at how many fish I got from LA that did not make it to my door the number is scary. I try not to order from them but sometimes they have something I need.

You have a point on wild fish. Thing is like I said before there is only so much room on a reef and when one fish dies it makes room for another to survive. That is the same for collecting of fish from the wild.

We need to do better as a hobby to stop these deaths because it is what gives us a bad reputation. It is perception of how people view us. The word collecting is a terrible word too.




Again what people do not get is breeding saltwater fish is not easy. Everyone just thinks is a year there will be enough aquacultured tangs. No there wont.
Why is it we do not see tons of tangs bred but do see tons of clowns. Most are very hard to near impossible. Why no wrasses? When I was ten I could breed 1000 of freshwater fish no problem. Every try just raising clownfish which are the easiest to breed of saltwater fish. How many hobbyists can breed freshwater fish? tons of them can. The reason we do not see to ton of theses fish is they are so hard. Does anyone even realise the facility size it would take to breed as many tangs came out of Hawaii? The cost of these facilities because where they need to be located. How many have tried to just raise the food required for saltwater fish breeding? Allot of saltwater fish broadcast spawn which makes it challenging. Saltwater fish go through a larval planktonic stage not fry like freshwater fish.


People think aquaculture can ramp up like corals. No it can not.

We have come a long way in breeding saltwater fish, in fact is we have been able to breed allot more species. The hard part is quantity where it is affordable for most.

Going forward this hobby will shrink because cost will go up. New people will not want to start because they will look at the cost of fish. It will hurt the retailer, distributor, forums, equipment manufacturers, everything. But everyone wants to act like nothing can hurt us.

Then you have to ask too who wants to invest and push the hobby forward in a shrinking hobby?

 

[Nick428]

I fully support the the ban. If they have determined an easy way to conserve the reef is a ban of ornamental fish then i trust their decision. Its really too bad.

 

[ca1ore]

a person could also argue the mortality of the fish that never leave the ocean too. i think we would be foolish to believe every animal is living a full life without incident.

Of course ..... don't think anyone is claiming that ..... I'm certainly not. Thing to consider though is that the majority of wild mortality occurs between egg and juvenile (99% plus in most cases). Once a fish reaches adulthood, what's the mortality; because that's the point at which the vast majority are collected for the hobby. Regardless, the most salient point is whether collecting fish for the hobby can be done sustainably. I don't know the answer to that.

 

[alain Bouchard]

sooo.....it will give more work to Philippine cyanide fishers?

 

[Nick428]

sooo.....it will give more work to Philippine cyanide fishers?

Thats a seperate issue

 

[shred5]

Of course ..... don't think anyone is claiming that ..... I'm certainly not. Thing to consider though is that the majority of wild mortality occurs between egg and juvenile (99% plus in most cases). Once a fish reaches adulthood, what's the mortality; because that's the point at which the vast majority are collected for the hobby. Regardless, the most salient point is whether collecting fish for the hobby can be done sustainably. I don't know the answer to that.

I think it is if managed right and we do better as a hobby.
Just think if it is only 10 percent like you mentioned and we raise that to 50 percent survivability.
Lets say the collection of just yellow tangs from Hawaii is 300,000 ( we know it is around that number) that is 120,000 less yellow tangs taken. To me there is no reason to not be higher than 50 percent.

My real fear is now tangs will be north of 300.00 and some other tangs get to 500.00 to a 1000.00 or more. This will push people to other fish also causing the price to rise on those fish. More expensive the hobby gets the less people who will come into it.

I am a skier and used to teach it part time. We used to have a program for kids for 40.00 lift, transportation, and lesson. Might have even been rental. Some ski areas are now over 100.00 lift a day. So a family of four is over 400.00 just to ski.
That is not including lesson, rental or lodging. Food prices at ski areas are so friggen high too and some get angry you if you bag lunch it. So what happening there are very few young skiers entering the sport because parents are not taking them. The program I taught for was just for kids and went belly up. The sport is struggling to bring in new skiers and is dying. Will it end? of coarse not but it is becoming a rich persons sport and way smaller. Ski areas are closing left and right.

We will start seeing it affect corals sales too. How many want corals without fish or just clowns?
Maybe coral prices will come down because of it and we can afford the fish. Who knows. As the hobby shrinks prices for fish may come down some.

This is not like we are loosing a few thousand fish from the hobby losing Hawaii. If the numbers were over 300,000 just for yellow tangs what was the total amount of fish lost. Be curious to know how many people are in the hobby.

 

[Brew12]

When I read the official 2020 report to the State of Hawaii, I was struck with a thought. Yellow tangs, which are not collected for food, was seeing numbers increasing substantially. Achilles, which are collected for food, were seeing their numbers decline.
I'm not a conservationist or a marine biologist, but it seems to be that Yellow tangs are filling in the void left by declining Achilles tang numbers. In my mind, that makes it look like the harvesting of Yellow tangs may actually be helpful in boosting Achilles tang numbers once their collection rates are reduced.

 

[Huskymaniac]

I think it is if managed right and we do better as a hobby.
Just think if it is only 10 percent like you mentioned and we raise that to 50 percent survivability.
Lets say the collection of just yellow tangs from Hawaii is 300,000 ( we know it is around that number) that is 120,000 less yellow tangs taken. To me there is no reason to not be higher than 50 percent.

My real fear is now tangs will be north of 300.00 and some 500.00 to a 1000.00 or more. This will push people to other fish also causing the price to rise. More expensive the hobby gets the less people who will come into it.

I am a skier and used to teach it part time. We used to have a program for kids for 40.00 lift, transportation, and lesson. Might have even been rental. Some ski areas are now over 100.00 lift a day. So a family of four is over 400.00 just to ski.
That is not including lesson, rental or lodging. Food prices at ski areas are so friggen high too and some get angry you if you bag lunch it. So what happening there are very few young skiers entering the sport

When I read the official 2020 report to the State of Hawaii, I was struck with a thought. Yellow tangs, which are not collected for food, was seeing numbers increasing substantially. Achilles, which are collected for food, were seeing their numbers decline.
I'm not a conservationist or a marine biologist, but it seems to be that Yellow tangs are filling in the void left by declining Achilles tang numbers. In my mind, that makes it look like the harvesting of Yellow tangs may actually be helpful in boosting Achilles tang numbers once their collection rates are reduced.

I wouldn't necessarily agree with this. You have other tangs such as naso, lavender, convicts, and koles. Out of all of these Achilles are rarer and overfishing will have a greater impact on them. Yellow Tangs are literally everywhere and would always see them on my dives.

 

[Huskymaniac]

If yellow tangs are now captive bread there is really no reason to collect a wild specimen. If the price goes up to 300.00 per specimen maybe that person will think twice before spending that money and sticking them in a mini redsea reefer.

 

[landlubber]

Of course ..... don't think anyone is claiming that ..... I'm certainly not. Thing to consider though is that the majority of wild mortality occurs between egg and juvenile (99% plus in most cases). Once a fish reaches adulthood, what's the mortality; because that's the point at which the vast majority are collected for the hobby. Regardless, the most salient point is whether collecting fish for the hobby can be done sustainably. I don't know the answer to that.

for sure and to be honest, the only true way to sustainably collect fish that i can think of is from a controlled system where they are tank bred. hopefully new advancements are made and it becomes a reality.

 

[aquakj]

I am pretty sure yellow tangs will still be available as there are some other areas for them. Price will go up though and they certainly won't be as available.

Yellow Tangs are already expensive so you can get a captive one at a pretty close price. $95 on NY aquatic for wild or $119 for captive on LA. Not that much difference.

Yellow Tangs are pretty mean and I never found them to be needed for algae. I would consider them completely optional for algae.

I am a bit sad as I planned on a potters wrasse.

I did put a Kole Tang on hold today after hearing the news yesterday. I figure it will turn into a 'rare' fish so I might as well get one to be a cool kid

I have a kole tang Im about to transfer him into my 75 gallon a bit nervous, I hope he transfers well, since it wont be easy or cheap getting another one because of this ban.

 

[Tamberav]

I have a kole tang Im about to transfer him into my 75 gallon a bit nervous, I hope he transfers well, since it wont be easy or cheap getting another one because of this ban.

He should be fine, they are hardy fish. Not delicate imo!

 

[KimG]

The reason given by the judge for the ban is fine in my opinion. Understanding the impacts that the collection may have on the reef is essential. So having a proper impact assessment seems reasonable to me.
Why have the impact assessment been rejected in the past may be another more complicated question.
Hopefully a complete impact assessment can be made and accepted.

This ban may at the very least, give some room for captive breeders to invest.
When the Indo ban came in to effect it was also seen as massive issue. And while it had some negative impacts, it also vastly benefited the sale of frags and cultured corals in facilities around the world, which I believe is a big plus and already has a very large impact in the sustainability of our hobby. Hopefully this may do a bit of the same for the fish side.

 

[mottomegl]

I stared diving in 1990, my last dive was in 2005 when my wife was 7 month pregnant with our last son. There have been Mickey Mouse dives since but nothing serious.
I can tell you that just over the 15 years or so the reef around Cozumel change tremendously. I don’t think that change does not have anything to do with fish collection, but due to human activity as a whole.
Don’t ask me for scientific evidence because I don’t have any. I don’t dive a huge amount. Just my experiences Ofer checking the same spot over 15 years.
over the last 15 years my family and professional life just got too hectic, and the children were too young to have diving vacations. They get first choice of destinations.

fish collection in Cozumel has been banned for more than 30 years it was designated a national park in Mexico i have been diving there for almost 25 years and in order to dive there you need to pay a park fee which is included in your dive price and plenty of times i have seen divers be told next time they touch the reef in any way they will be done diving with that company for good

 

[mottomegl]

The truth of the matter with these hawaii ban has nothing to do with the reef health they are just saying these as a excuse i have seen these crap before after big game fishing for years for tuna shark and billfish and even smaller fish they would always shut down the season early or stop fishing for a certain species of fish based on some excuse but commercial guys that are killing more fish and doing more harm would be allowed to continue to fish but the difference is they have big money that lobby politicians were as guys that are fishing for fun or in these instance collecting maybe a 300 -400 little fish a year that will have no impact on anything but sorry for what i am about say here if i offend anyone but some liberal people that has no idea about the science will push to stop fishing or collecting fish when the real problem is the commercial fish industry that is doing the most damage look at the Florida keys they don’t allow commercial fishing on there reefs they don’t allow recreational fishing on some reefs they allow fish collecting no issues there and in the keys they use a lot of the fish we keep in are tanks as bait seen it for a long times whether it be parrot fish angels and many other fish i have seen on fish hooks as bait

 

[CubsFan]

The truth of the matter with these hawaii ban has nothing to do with the reef health they are just saying these as a excuse i have seen these crap before after big game fishing for years for tuna shark and billfish and even smaller fish they would always shut down the season early or stop fishing for a certain species of fish based on some excuse but commercial guys that are killing more fish and doing more harm would be allowed to continue to fish but the difference is they have big money that lobby politicians were as guys that are fishing for fun or in these instance collecting maybe a 300 -400 little fish a year that will have no impact on anything but sorry for what i am about say here if i offend anyone but some liberal people that has no idea about the science will push to stop fishing or collecting fish when the real problem is the commercial fish industry that is doing the most damage look at the Florida keys they don’t allow commercial fishing on there reefs they don’t allow recreational fishing on some reefs they allow fish collecting no issues there and in the keys they use a lot of the fish we keep in are tanks as bait seen it for a long times whether it be parrot fish angels and many other fish i have seen on fish hooks as bait

You should be more liberal with your punctuation.

 

[Marine66]

Despite everything being in the works, never thought this day would come. Until we get enough Captive Bred specimens, goodbye Yellow Tangs, Kole Tangs, Convict Tangs, Lavender Tangs, Achilles, and many others.

I wonder what would be the future of Tangs for Zebrasoma and other fish.

What would be good alternatives for most people in the now indefinite absence of the Yellow Tang?

I would choose, maybe some clownfish, Blue tangs, the koran angle, royal gramma, and the forceps butterflyfish. Also star fish, hermit crabs or blue crabs, and I think the blood red fire shrimp is pretty cool because they come in different patterns and I great for keeping the cleaning maintenance for your tank.

 

[Dmat21]

I am stocking up!! My GET RICH scheme!!

Where can I find these?

 

[kenchilada]

Where can I find these?

Hawaii

 

[jaganshi066]

Some of the comments confuse me. People make comments like they don’t own any live stock, why are you even in hobby if collecting fish is immoral?(Rhetorical question) IMO the dent we make in nature is .000001% compared to amount of fish killed for food. I have seen pictures on here in the past that show mountains of tangs on fishing boats for food. People will always find a way to justify there opinions reefers and hippies alike.

I agree with you, The guy who commented that probably has 10 yellow tangs....no but seriously I agree with you 100%