Let's Talk About Captive-Bred Fish Prices

[Biota_Marine]

Literally the exact same amount of effort to raise both fish. These people are the worst kind of people. The greedy kind.

NEXT

To clarify, it's not the same amount of effort to raise both these species.

Many people are aware we more regularly have royal gramma available on the site vs cuban basslets because one is much easier than the other and reflects the pricing. Additionally getting broodstock for royal gramma is much more available and easier so having more pairs/harems is easier to do.

The real question is why is the price different between a regular clownfish and designer clownfish or even "rare" breeds of clownfish if the way to raise them is the same? Are all the clownfish breeders in the hobby a "cancer"? If every strain of clownfish was the same "effort" price none of the major clownfish companies would be in business.

 

[ReefED!]

I'm totally fine with captive bred prices as they tend to come down over time.

There's a lot of work that goes into being able to captive breed some of these species and then get that process down to something that can be recreated on a commercial scale

That's expensive

Then you have to factor in all of the failures along the way as well as captive breeding successes that don't sell very well for whatever reason

Whenever a fancy captive bred fish comes out and costs $$$$ - that helps fund future efforts for other fish (and failures) - so let those people buy their Yurple Durple Hybrid tangs for a ton of money if they have the income for it. Eventually the prices will drop.

And lastly, captive bred are often hardier and better adapted to tank life - especially when it comes to feeding.

PS. Anyone remember how much they paid for their first flatscreen TV? I dropped $1700 on a 46" LCD in 2009.

This christmas I paid $150 for a 50" that blows that 2009 Samsung out of the water in every imaginable way.

 

[Daniel@R2R]

To clarify, it's not the same amount of effort to raise both these species.

Many people are aware we more regularly have royal gramma available on the site vs cuban basslets because one is much easier than the other and reflects the pricing. Additionally getting broodstock for royal gramma is much more available and easier so having more pairs/harems is easier to do.

The real question is why is the price different between a regular clownfish and designer clownfish or even "rare" breeds of clownfish if the way to raise them is the same? Are all the clownfish breeders in the hobby a "cancer"? If every strain of clownfish was the same "effort" price none of the major clownfish companies would be in business.

Thanks for the clarification and for the important work you do for the reef hobby and marine conservation in general. I'm a fan!

 

[Biota_Marine]

If they were in it for anything but the money, we would have captive bred green chromis everywhere. Wouldn't that be nice? Free from the risks of Uronema, etc. But we don't have that because these people care more about money than they do the hobby. It really is that simple. The hours and effort that go into breeding a royal gramma are identical to that for the cuban basslet. They're literally the same fish with a different paint job. There is zero justification but greed to charging more for the one than the other.

Also to be fair we did support a farm that was breeding green chromis because we agree it is something needed for the hobby due to the prevelance of uronema. We paid the farm high value on their first batches to try to keep the program going and then offered them on our website at a price that lost us money and it took months to sell them and more batches haven't been produced by that farm since. I would offer them if they were available.

I understand in this hobby it's incredibly easy to be pessimistic but there are some companies out here that actually care about the hobby, not just making a profit.

 

[JoJosReef]

Also to be fair we did support a farm that was breeding green chromis because we agree it is something needed for the hobby due to the prevelance of uronema. We paid the farm high value on their first batches to try to keep the program going and then offered them on our website at a price that lost us money and it took months to sell them and more batches haven't been produced by that farm since. I would offer them if they were available.

I understand in this hobby it's incredibly easy to be pessimistic but there are some companies out here that actually care about the hobby, not just making a profit.

I think you guys are great.

 

[corosato]

Also to be fair we did support a farm that was breeding green chromis because we agree it is something needed for the hobby due to the prevelance of uronema. We paid the farm high value on their first batches to try to keep the program going and then offered them on our website at a price that lost us money and it took months to sell them and more batches haven't been produced by that farm since. I would offer them if they were available.

I understand in this hobby it's incredibly easy to be pessimistic but there are some companies out here that actually care about the hobby, not just making a profit.

Keep up the good work! Definitely appreciate what you guys do. I look forward to more and more species being figured out, I'd love it if eventually we ended up with more variety of captive bred options!

 

[ReneReef]

Also to be fair we did support a farm that was breeding green chromis because we agree it is something needed for the hobby due to the prevelance of uronema. We paid the farm high value on their first batches to try to keep the program going and then offered them on our website at a price that lost us money and it took months to sell them and more batches haven't been produced by that farm since. I would offer them if they were available.

I understand in this hobby it's incredibly easy to be pessimistic but there are some companies out here that actually care about the hobby, not just making a profit.

Well to add to the pessimism...

There are three things going on that are making me go back to wild caught:
1) The staggering amount of anatomical defects in some bred fish species. Of course in clown fish. The worst being the designer biaculeatus/epigramma and the disfigured clown fish being sold as extra cute novelty.
But also Meiacanthus blennies are looking more and more abysmal. Shrivled fins, mouth deformities, spines with bends in them etc. None live longer than 6 months. At this point it is very hard to find a good looking tank bred Meiacanthus.
2) Bred angels are getting sold smaller and smaller and smaller. They are often (very) underweight and regularly not eating. I would guess about 50-50 chance of survival at the moment.
3) Longevity leaves to be desired in my experience. I've been keeping many bred fish from the moment they got available. Filefish and (dwarf) angels I have not been able to keep for more than 4 years. Many cases of acites/intestinal infection after 1 to 2 years in my care, something that I have never seen in a wild caught fish in 20 years. Or a fish just start withering away, like it's getting old too soon. I have none of these issues with my wild caught fish.

Recently my oldest tank bred venusta angel died (about 4 years old), I will not be replacing it.

 

[Zach136378]

I just don’t see the point in captive bred fish apart from tangs and maybe larger angel and overall larger captive bred fish. They are far too small and so expensive

 

[code4]

Two of my CB fish. Was not able to get the tang otherwise due to the ban back then. And had never heard of the purple masked one before. First little angel lasted only a day. Was replaced quickly. Next one was just under an inch. That was 2 years ago. Wouldn't have either if not for Biota.

 

[me & my baby]

I’ve just come back into this hobby after I’ve been out of the saltwater game spending the last 18 years dabbling in freshwater plants and tropical freshwater. The last time I managed a fish store was in 2006. I use to buy 100 yellow tangs from Hawaii and blow them out at $24.99 each. So just think of my surprise when I saw today’s prices!

You will see the prices come down. Remember the first flat screen TVs. Only a handful of companies made them and they were thousands of dollars. Same principle happening here.

As more companies enter in the captive breeding game the market will flood with everyone looking to make the big bucks. And only then will the race for lower prices and out competing the competition beginning.

I have to disagree with you on the price going down . Look at the price of corals . They keep going up and up . Even with as many people are fragging them and reselling them . As long as people keep paying these astronomical prices they will stay the same . It wasn’t that long ago before Hawaii shut down you could get a yellow tang for 29.99.

 

[Clowning_Around72]

I have felt as if the quality of captive bred fish (outside of clowns) has been improving. Might just be locally around myself though. I also tend to purchase dwarf angels wild caught just because I do not see a huge difference in the quality/benefit near me between WC and CB for some species.

Chromis, some larger angels + tangs, definitely anthias... etc are worth it if available.
Damsels in general have some uronema risk as well.

Clownfish also are much easier captive bred from the importers point of view. Having selected wild clowns before, it is much harder than selecting from captive bred clowns.

 

[fish_collector]

There is something about captive bred fish that perhaps many just aren't seeing...Biota knows how to do it and that's that. It's a business and they have to recover their time and investments, this is 2026 and everything costs more. $150-200 for a fish that is not available wild caught is not a big deal. And by the way, a yellow tang used to be a $30 fish that was so common no one gave them a second look, now that they aren't available everyone wants one lol.

 

[Clowning_Around72]

There is something about captive bred fish that perhaps many just aren't seeing...Biota knows how to do it and that's that. It's a business and they have to recover their time and investments, this is 2026 and everything costs more. $150-200 for a fish that is not available wild caught is not a big deal. And by the way, a yellow tang used to be a $30 fish that was so common no one gave them a second look, now that they aren't available everyone wants one lol.

Plus, biota (and other aquaculture companies) have done incredible work on both the scientific front and for the hobby in terms of providing certain species.

Few remember this, but many red sea dottybacks were basically inaccessible until these companies started breeding them.

 

[Doctor Derp]

Anybody defending Biota today is delusional.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Anybody defending Biota today is delusional.

I don't understand why I have to be delusional to prefer captive raised fish. Maybe my lack of understanding of your assertion is part of the delusion. lol

 

[Doctor Derp]

I don't understand why I have to be delusional to prefer captive raised fish. Maybe my lack of understanding of your assertion is part of the delusion. lol

Randy of all people I know you comprehend what's said in those images. Biota is literally a cash grab that has zero regard for the hobby. They *only* care about making profits. You're defending the company that is taking advantage of hobbyists to make a profit. The founder of Biota says the Hawaii fishery is the best managed in the world. The singular reason they oppose opening that fishery is to protect their profits.

What a joke. Either you're in on it or it's over your head.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

What a joke. Either you're in on it or it's over your head.

You presume that all hobbyists are or should be against the ornamental ban. A common misconception.

Some of us think that the hobby is better off using captive bred organisms whenever possible, and my encouraging that possibility does not seem to require that I be making money off aquaculture in Hawaii.

Asked differently, why are you so worked up about the ban? Is it so greatly impacting your life that you feel the need to deride others with a different opinion?

 

[Lowell Lemon]

Not surprised to see Biota protect "their" market. I advocate for managed fisheries due to the better quality of natural stock. So now a "fish factory" can produce better quality than nature? Just look at the aberration the meat producing food industry has become to see why this path is not good for the industry. The freshwater market is a prime example of successive generations of fish showing higher levels of deformity.

Unless you are able and willing to continue to add new brood stock from nature the successive generations will continue a downward quality spiral. Just look at the poor quality of "food" fish like Atlantic Salmon as an example. Add farm raised Trout to that list as well and forget about Tilapia.

Just opinion here not "science". But food for thought. Form your own opinion.

Now how about support for those fish collectors world wide who provide for their families this way?

 

[JumboShrimp]

Generally speaking, I like to see things work side-by-side for compromise, and reasonable solutions. I have bought two Biota fish in my life (thus far)-- two Goldline Rabbitfish that were barely the size of the cap on a yellow highlighter when they arrived! (They grew into monsters, by the way). So I'm not against the work Biota does. At the same time, if there is a game-afoot to squash wild caught fish in order to become a lab-monopoly with a chokehold over the hobby, that would be rotten in my book. As to the current 'Ban', I am in no position to know whether hobbyist are truly snatching up Yellow Tangs faster than they can reproduce in the wild-- but to me I would think that would be like saying there are so many stamp collectors out there that they are snapping up "Elvis" stamps faster than they can be printed. (?!)

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

So now a "fish factory" can produce better quality than nature?

Why do they need to be better? Maybe they are in some ways, but they do not need to be for me to prefer them.
I don't buy organic food for myself because I assume it is better for me. I think it is better for the planet.

I don't have solar panels because I think the electricity is better. And it isn't goong to be cheaper for years. I have them primarily as a way to reduce my negative impact on the planet. Same for my electric car.

I'm actually a little surprised that the hobby does not have a higher percentage of folks who agree with entities trying to conserve the oceans, such as the Sierra Club which supports the ornamentals ban.