Let's Talk About Captive-Bred Fish Prices

[PhishEDELIC]

 

[Daniel@R2R]

Ver inaccurate pricing in the original post. Biota Yellow Tang prices has steadily crept down in the last three years despite rampant overall economic inflation! The inflation adjusted price has come down materially.

I posted prices based on what I've seen locally at LFSs here close by, and I've seen a range of $300-$500, so the prices in the original post were based on that. I'm happy that they are cheaper through Biota and other vendors which kind of reveals what I was hoping for in the OP. Prices of yellow tangs a few years ago when they were first bred after the ban were way higher than even the price range I listed. So, it seems that we can hope to continue to see reduction in prices as things continue to develop with breeding.

Now...about my dream of owning a yurple tang someday... here's hoping!

 

[Daniel@R2R]

I'd like to clarify (since it seems maybe I was unclear in the original post) that I am HOPEFUL that we will see prices continue to come down on CB fish. It seems a few people read me as saying he opposite???

BTW, I in no way was intending criticism of CB prices. I get that it's quite an undertaking, especially when breeding fish that haven't been bred before. We should expect those prices to start high. However, for those of us who can't afford those initial price tags, it seems we can hope and maybe even expect the drift towards a price we can afford eventually.

 

[Doctor Derp]

I'd like to clarify (since it seems maybe I was unclear in the original post) that I am HOPEFUL that we will see prices continue to come down on CB fish. It seems a few people read me as saying he opposite???

BTW, I in no way was intending criticism of CB prices. I get that it's quite an undertaking, especially when breeding fish that haven't been bred before. We should expect those prices to start high. However, for those of us who can't afford those initial price tags, it seems we can hope and maybe even expect the drift towards a price we can afford eventually.

If they were in it for anything but the money, we would have captive bred green chromis everywhere. Wouldn't that be nice? Free from the risks of Uronema, etc. But we don't have that because these people care more about money than they do the hobby. It really is that simple. The hours and effort that go into breeding a royal gramma are identical to that for the cuban basslet. They're literally the same fish with a different paint job. There is zero justification but greed to charging more for the one than the other.

 

[LiveFreeAndReef]

Captive-bred is worth every penny. I have a yellow tang, regal tang, royal gramma, and blue mandarin from them and they're all great

 

[Jasonak]

Im sure they will come down eventually, hopefully not to far down or company's will stop breeding them.

BUT maybe buy then it will become easier for the regular reefer to breed them. I believe the biggest challenge it seems for most is raising the fry. I've only been successful with bangai myself and that just been luck. At one point I thought I was going to breed jawfish and a bunch of others but yeah never happened lol

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Literally the exact same amount of effort to raise both fish. These people are the worst kind of people. The greedy kind.

NEXT

Wow. No one is making anyone buy a captive bred fish. It's an option that some, like me, will pay a premium for.

If you choose not to, good for you.

But to call them a cancer for providing some folks an option is just ridiculous.

 

[areefer01]

We need a down vote on this forum...

 

[Ryan - Serious Reefs]

For what it’s worth, I don’t think anyone is getting rich off this. I would not be surprised if some of the breeders are just trying to keep their heads above water.

Someone once told me that without the high price tag on the Yellow Tang, there would be no Biota.

 

[vittpsu21]

You are paying for the service? You don’t have to buy said service? My lfs has zero guarantee on saltwater. So not only do I have to buy the fish there, I then have to assume all the risk while I qt it? I have been debating internally lately how much I should be willing to pay for captive bred. How may non guaranteed fish do you have to buy and qt with risk before the option becomes worth I wonder. As I lose fish in qt, that number becomes less and less in my mind?

 

[Mathol]

I am new to marine aquarium having mine for a couple months but have had freshwater tanks all my life . To be honest I was expecting prices way more higher than what I paid my saltwater fish lately and you can almost compare an emperor vs a freshwater angelfish ( ok I m getting a lil too far there but not that much ! ) freshwater fish prices went up also ! ..

 

[areefer01]

For what it’s worth, I don’t think anyone is getting rich off this. I would not be surprised if some of the breeders are just trying to keep their heads above water.

Someone once told me that without the high price tag on the Yellow Tang, there would be no Biota.

With no disrespect to anyone here, at times I often believe that hobbyist do not know the effort it takes to bring a marine ornamental fish to market. We are, for lack of a better word, ignorant. It is not as easy as collecting the eggs, letting them hatch, and we are done but rather understanding their feeding needs across the various stages post hatching. Then grow them out finding an age that they will survive shipping and supply chain holding tanks. They are not breeding guppies. This you know of course.

That is just one side. Then there is the business side of things. Not everyone is good at this. Again, as you very well know the herculean effort that takes. Seems we just gloss over the challenges of building the brand along the way and we are not even talking about payroll.

To me, it seems such an unfair discussion and more education is needed. Not all businesses are living the life like the wolfs of wallstreet. And even if they are, who cares. Effort should equal reward and this is why we dream. Kudo's that do it.

Sorry for the rant.

 

[Drewskiiiii]

I find it strange how Americans (only speaking for Americans), so delightfully accept insane prices on EVERYTHING. Oh have times changed.

 

[mcarroll]

I find it strange that some folks think that everything should be priced like the stuff they buy at Walmart or Target.

Freshwater fish are cheaper because most of them can be pond-raised en masse for almost nothing. Fish that can't be propagated that way almost don't appear in the hobby.

Why should wild caught fish be priced anything like those fish? Wild saltwater fish should not just be "more expensive" because they are cooler looking, they should be *A LOT more expensive* because they are wild caught and all that entails.

So, it should not be surprising that we find this to be true. Neon Tetras cost less than Gem Tangs.

However...

Captive breeding efforts are a different animal than either pond rearing or wild capture.

Pond based aquaculture is almost free to operate by comparison....and can be totally free if you set it up with that intent.

We may have little or no idea how much investment a captive breeder needs to make back, or what their plan is re:pricing to make that happen. And it's possible they plan to keep charging wild-caught (or more) prices until the market sickens of it....which may never happen since the demand is so elastic.

More breeders, more competition is the old formula for bringing prices down. Today I guess we should hope for a chinese factory to get involved.... Then it'll be "Subsidized Gem Tangs $9.99 or 3 for $15.00."

I'm not saying that meme isn't funny, but look up the pricing and availability of "dumb" TV's. Yes, you can get a 60" "dumb" TV that doesn't have apps or the data surveilance that comes with them (duh, they wanna know what you like to watch)...but it isn't gonna be on sale for $599.

His point sucks, but it kinda stands.

 

[oxo]

I'd like to clarify (since it seems maybe I was unclear in the original post) that I am HOPEFUL that we will see prices continue to come down on CB fish. It seems a few people read me as saying he opposite???

BTW, I in no way was intending criticism of CB prices. I get that it's quite an undertaking, especially when breeding fish that haven't been bred before. We should expect those prices to start high. However, for those of us who can't afford those initial price tags, it seems we can hope and maybe even expect the drift towards a price we can afford eventually.

If they were in it for anything but the money, we would have captive bred green chromis everywhere. Wouldn't that be nice? Free from the risks of Uronema, etc. But we don't have that because these people care more about money than they do the hobby. It really is that simple. The hours and effort that go into breeding a royal gramma are identical to that for the cuban basslet. They're literally the same fish with a different paint job. There is zero justification but greed to charging more for the one than the other.

to be fair they likely have dozens of breeding pairs of royal gramma, they aren’t exactly a high-yield breeder. more supply = less money. i’ll be danged if they have more than one or two pairs of cuban basslet because that isn’t a fish you can just get healthy broodstock of if you want them. the first CB cuban basslets on the market were well over 5k in 2017!

 

[Drewskiiiii]

I find it strange that some folks think that everything should be priced like the stuff they buy at Walmart or Target.

Freshwater fish are cheaper because most of them can be pond-raised en masse for almost nothing. Fish that can't be propagated that way almost don't appear in the hobby.

Why should wild caught fish be priced anything like those fish? Wild saltwater fish should not just be "more expensive" because they are cooler looking, they should be *A LOT more expensive* because they are wild caught and all that entails.

So, it should not be surprising that we find this to be true. Neon Tetras cost less than Gem Tangs.

However...

Captive breeding efforts are a different animal than either pond rearing or wild capture.

Pond based aquaculture is almost free to operate by comparison....and can be totally free if you set it up with that intent.

We may have little or no idea how much investment a captive breeder needs to make back, or what their plan is re:pricing to make that happen. And it's possible they plan to keep charging wild-caught (or more) prices until the market sickens of it....which may never happen since the demand is so elastic.

More breeders, more competition is the old formula for bringing prices down. Today I guess we should hope for a chinese factory to get involved.... Then it'll be "Subsidized Gem Tangs $9.99 or 3 for $15.00."


I'm not saying that meme isn't funny, but look up the pricing and availability of "dumb" TV's. Yes, you can get a 60" "dumb" TV that doesn't have apps or the data surveilance that comes with them (duh, they wanna know what you like to watch)...but it isn't gonna be on sale for $599.

His point sucks, but it kinda stands.

Chinese factories as if fish and coral are built, is WILD.

My statement is kind of off topic, prices on everything in general. So sad.

Some price increases I can understand, fundamentally. Others, pure greed.

 

[Bitter old man]

Flat screen TVs are cheaper now because they are subsidized with advertising and analytics dollars. All of the apps and nonsense that come on a modern smart tv are gathering *massive* amounts of data on your viewing habits. That data is worth big money.

So them knowing I like to watch the Waltons is big money?

 

[Drewskiiiii]

With no disrespect to anyone here, at times I often believe that hobbyist do not know the effort it takes to bring a marine ornamental fish to market. We are, for lack of a better word, ignorant. It is not as easy as collecting the eggs, letting them hatch, and we are done but rather understanding their feeding needs across the various stages post hatching. Then grow them out finding an age that they will survive shipping and supply chain holding tanks. They are not breeding guppies. This you know of course.

That is just one side. Then there is the business side of things. Not everyone is good at this. Again, as you very well know the herculean effort that takes. Seems we just gloss over the challenges of building the brand along the way and we are not even talking about payroll.

To me, it seems such an unfair discussion and more education is needed. Not all businesses are living the life like the wolfs of wallstreet. And even if they are, who cares. Effort should equal reward and this is why we dream. Kudo's that do it.

Sorry for the rant.

Facts. The problems start at the top, and we pay the price of the damages.

 

[Catawba_Valley_Reef]

So them knowing I like to watch the Waltons is big money?

Love The Waltons lol.

 

[Doctor Derp]

With no disrespect to anyone here, at times I often believe that hobbyist do not know the effort it takes to bring a marine ornamental fish to market. We are, for lack of a better word, ignorant. It is not as easy as collecting the eggs, letting them hatch, and we are done but rather understanding their feeding needs across the various stages post hatching. Then grow them out finding an age that they will survive shipping and supply chain holding tanks. They are not breeding guppies. This you know of course.

That is just one side. Then there is the business side of things. Not everyone is good at this. Again, as you very well know the herculean effort that takes. Seems we just gloss over the challenges of building the brand along the way and we are not even talking about payroll.

To me, it seems such an unfair discussion and more education is needed. Not all businesses are living the life like the wolfs of wallstreet. And even if they are, who cares. Effort should equal reward and this is why we dream. Kudo's that do it.

Sorry for the rant.

Maybe keep quiet on the subject then until *you* have some experience raising marine animals. If you need help with your MOLAR tub let me know. I've built a dozen of them.