Healthy looking fish keep dying

FiddlersReef

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Hi everyone, long time lurker, first post. :)

I've got a new reef tank, that has been running about 6 months now. 130 gallons, all marco-rock plus caribsea live sand. It's my second reef tank, but it had been about 10 years since the last one that I abandoned when I moved and have just had small freshwater tanks before now.

For some reason, I cannot seem to keep new fish alive. At one point, there was a bullying lone anthias (I know, but true) which I removed. Once he was gone, all other fish in the tank were suddenly out and about and much happier. So I thought I could try adding some more fish.

It's a very peaceful tank. Lots of corals that are all growing and healthy, one cleaner shrimp, 3 emerald crabs, 5 pajama cardinals, one watchman goby, and a bunch of snails. That's it.
Parameters are all stable and good. Changing 20 gallons weekly with TM pro reef, testing water every week.

Most recently I added 5 purple firefish and two black/white oc. clowns, and a tailspot blennie.

All of them were out and eating and moving around for about a week, and though they weren't voracious eaters, they were eating.

Then suddenly I'm losing one or two a day -- only the new fish -- just dead on the sand in the morning with no sign of injury or disease.

This has happened over the past month with a Tomini tang, and a Lamarck's angel as well. Out and eating, then boom, dead. Only the cardinals and the goby seem to be immune.

I've just added some activated carbon in a bag in the sump, and I'm working on buying and installing a UV sterilizer, since I figure there must be something in the water that I just can't see or test for.

Any ideas would be much appreciated. This is so disheartening.
 

blaxsun

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Water parameters (salinity, alkalinity, calcium, magnesium, phosphates), a list of what you're using for filtration (ie: filter socks, protein skimmer, reactors, media, etc.) and what you have for clean-up crew (inverts). Also, have you tested your ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels lately? Are you quarantining your fish or are they going straight into your display tank?
 

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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agreed, is this quarantine and fallow or just straight add to display
 
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FiddlersReef

FiddlersReef

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Parameters as of 3 days ago (Sunday):
Salinity: 1.025
Alk: 8.8
Ca: 463
pH: 8.2
Mg: 1280
NO3: 7.5
PO4: .15 (if the hanna ULR is right)
Ammonia: 0
NO2: 0

Mech Filtration is the stock waterbox 7" filter socks. One is 100 micron, one is 225.
Protein skimmer: AquaVitro Division 250
Refugium with cheato and light running opposite display.
As of today, a bag of activated carbon.

Circulation: 2 MP40 running from opposite ends at 50%, reef crest mode. 30-40% at night.

Dosing CheatoGro (only at night), and Brightwell Aquatics alk/calcium via RedSea Dose4.

CUC: 3 emerald crabs, assorted margarita and astrea snails, scarlet cleaner shrimp, 3 conchs, 1 sandsifting starfish, plus 16oz of Algae Barn 8280 pods and phyto.

No quarantine. I never had good luck doing that. Try to order from places that at least say they are careful, whatever that means. (And I've never lost existing fish after an addition, only the new ones.) Please don't hate me. I know qt is a holy war.
 

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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if those approaches are missing, quarantine and fallow, that's where you'd start while assuming all other params are within spec.

variations in filtration approaches wont kill fish, changes in params like calcium alk/not a noted fish killer


but in the fish disease forum...

if these are fish bought at a pet store and added, then I vote 99% whats happening in the fish disease forum is at play.
 

vtecintegra

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First guess, probably velvet or brook in the tank from lack of quarantining. I don't think I've seen a fish store yet without disease or dead fish.
 

Tamberav

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If the corals and inverts are fine then the problem is likely disease/parasite.

You say you don’t have luck QT but I just want to point out that you are not having luck directly adding to display either.

Resident fish may be more robust to whatever is in the tank, may have been there awhile. They are settled and new fish obviously go through a lot of stressors of being captured and then the LFS and then to your house and so on. Stress means they can’t fight disease very well.
 
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FiddlersReef

FiddlersReef

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if these are fish bought at a pet store and added, then I vote 99% whats happening in the fish disease forum is at play.

First guess, probably velvet or brook in the tank from lack of quarantining. I don't think I've seen a fish store yet without disease or dead fish.

You say you don’t have luck QT but I just want to point out that you are not having luck directly adding to display either.

Resident fish may be more robust to whatever is in the tank, may have been there awhile. They are settled and new fish obviously go through a lot of stressors of being captured and then the LFS and then to your house and so on. Stress means they can’t fight disease very well.


Ok, I can admit that I'm wrong. I swear nothing like this ever happened in 30 years of fishkeeping. But, now that it has, if it could have been avoided with a QT then, well, I'll have to figure out how to QT successfully.

So for the current issue... I understand that I need to setup a tank and move the fish to it, and go fallow for what, 30 days? And if I install a UV sterilizer and run it at the pathogen flow rate, I'm assuming that should help as well?

I have a 10 gallon "shrimp tank" that isn't being used. Would that be ok for 5 small cardinals, a watchman goby, and 2 firefish?

Anything I should medicate the QT with to help them out? Any advice on the best way to do this so they survive the QT and come out health into a clean tank?

Thanks for all the responses.
 

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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fifteen years ago nobody had to toil to this degree, we buy fish we install fish they do fine 80% of the time or even better


something has changed 100% agreed. maybe its dry rock starts, sourcing, transport variations, its something tangible that now drives all aquarists into the disease protocol market if they are not incredibly lucky otherwise.
 
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FiddlersReef

FiddlersReef

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fifteen years ago nobody had to toil to this degree, we buy fish we install fish they do fine 80% of the time or even better


something has changed 100% agreed. maybe its dry rock starts, sourcing, transport variations, its something tangible that now drives all aquarists into the disease protocol market if they are not incredibly lucky otherwise.
Thanks, yes, I think that’s why my brain just refused to consider a pathogen. Now if I can figure out how to do a QT so I don’t kill the survivors.
 

Tamberav

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I would use a bigger QT. Can use a tote but need to put netting or something over it. Firefish little rockets.

Fallow is min 45 days at 82. Can’t cross contaminate.

There are a few venders that sell fully quarantined fish.
 
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FiddlersReef

FiddlersReef

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I would use a bigger QT. Can use a tote but need to put netting or something over it. Firefish little rockets.

Fallow is min 45 days at 82. Can’t cross contaminate.

There are a few venders that sell fully quarantined fish.
If the tank is full of coral, raising the temp to 82 would be bad wouldn’t it?

Would running a UV impact the timeline at all?
 

Tamberav

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If the tank is full of coral, raising the temp to 82 would be bad wouldn’t it?

Would running a UV impact the timeline at all?

82 is an acceptable range. I would do it over a period if you run your tank fairly low.

Actually running tanks mid 80s was a thing for increasing coral growth.

This is a great read!

 

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