HELP Ammonia :(

MnFish1 · Jun 17, 2019

MnFish1 said:
If you add Prime - it binds the ammonia - it doesnt remove it. So - depending on the test kit you're using - you can still see measurable ammonia after using Prime. Sorry if this was mentioned already.

By the way, this means that your ammonia is fine, i.e., not a problem. There are tests for 'free ammonia' which is the toxic 'version'. Which test did you use?

MnFish1 · Jun 17, 2019

eric.20 said:
yes but I'm just wondering why the corals are not doing well if with using prime ammonia should be "safe"

Corals can not do well for lots of reasons so without knowing many other things thats hard to answer

. I would suggest that ammonia is 'less likely' because ammonia would kill them at those levels - not just make them 'not look well'. And if you used the Prime correctly - the ammonia should not be an issue. In any case - I was just suggesting that depending on the test kit you're using - you cant tell (at all) the level of toxic ammonia in your tank. But you seem to be focusing on ammonia.

I have had GSP for example stay closed for up to a couple weeks after a problem. Zoas as well.

BeejReef · Jun 17, 2019

On the bright side, if your corals are holding themselves closed, there's at least a reasonable chance they're still alive.
Lots of things changed for them along with the chemistry issues you're having. Are you running the same lights as the old setup?

Either way, might not be a horrible idea to soften the lights slightly for a few weeks and just be extra gentle all around

Brett S · Jun 17, 2019

eric.20 said:
maybe it was really the sock and we removed to many bacteria with washing it..

I really don’t think that’s the case for the following reasons... you moved your rock from your established tank and unless something weird happened to the rock, like it was left out of the water for a long time or washed in freshwater there would have been a bacteria population in that rock that should have been more than enough to support the tank without the bacteria that was in the sock.

Additionally, with your light bioload even if there wasn’t any bacteria in the rock and almost all of your bacteria was in the sock then your ammonia shouldn’t have risen so quickly and to such a high level. A few corals and some hermits just aren’t going to be producing that much ammonia.

I really think that there was something else that triggered all of this.

Brett S · Jun 17, 2019

eric.20 said:
yes but I'm just wondering why the corals are not doing well if with using prime ammonia should be "safe"

Because the damage was done when the ammonia climbed to 2.0 before you added prime the first time. Ammonia will give the corals a chemical burn, so think of it this way... if you were put in acid then it would burn your body. Even if the acid was then neutralized the damage would already be done and you would still have acid burns on your body that would take time to heal. If the acid was weak (low levels of ammonia) then the burn wouldn’t be too bad and wouldn’t take too long to heal, but it would still take time. If the acid was strong (high levels of ammonia) then the burn would severely injure you and take much longer to heal... or it could even kill you.

All you can do now is keep the ammonia neutralized so there is no further damage and allow the corals time to heal on their own. Their stress response is to close up while they heal, so they will stay closed and not look well until and if they are able to recover from this.

brandon429 · Jun 17, 2019

post a full tank shot of this tank and from that we can tell if there's an ammonia issue. not from a test kit

from the pic, post away. I looked but didn't see any on prior pages.

A picture and a known submersion history is all it takes to trace out ammonia, ok lessgo

it w be mighty fun when Seneye gets more popular to make predictions about the state of ammonia and then have it measured after the prediction.
Titration kits merely mislead for ammonia and nitrite work, tank pics beat them currently.

eric.20 · Jun 17, 2019

We just did the water change but ran out of salt we put the power head on and put the heater in the display tank. Return pump is just out as we still have 20% to refill. I have to work now and on the way there I bought salt. I will be back home in few hours. But we did a test again (API test kit) and the ammonia was at 1.0.

MnFish1 · Jun 17, 2019

eric.20 said:
We just did the water change but ran out of salt we put the power head on and put the heater in the display tank. Return pump is just out as we still have 20% to refill. I have to work now and on the way there I bought salt. I will be back home in few hours. But we did a test again (API test kit) and the ammonia was at 1.0.

Nice tank - and what percent of the water did you change?

eric.20 · Jun 17, 2019

MnFish1 said:
Nice tank - and what percent of the water did you change?

Thank you,

Approximately 50-60%

eric.20 · Jun 17, 2019

In the 20g tank we had so many rocks, it was around 30pounds and we didn’t like the look so that’s why we put more rocks in the sump so we don’t really see them

eric.20 · Jun 17, 2019

Brett S said:
Because the damage was done when the ammonia climbed to 2.0 before you added prime the first time. Ammonia will give the corals a chemical burn, so think of it this way... if you were put in acid then it would burn your body. Even if the acid was then neutralized the damage would already be done and you would still have acid burns on your body that would take time to heal. If the acid was weak (low levels of ammonia) then the burn wouldn’t be too bad and wouldn’t take too long to heal, but it would still take time. If the acid was strong (high levels of ammonia) then the burn would severely injure you and take much longer to heal... or it could even kill you.

All you can do now is keep the ammonia neutralized so there is no further damage and allow the corals time to heal on their own. Their stress response is to close up while they heal, so they will stay closed and not look well until and if they are able to recover from this.

Before the ammonia was high the corals where doing good, they had good Color and also they were growing. So since the ammonia spike a few of them closed up, specially the zoa sand our green star polyp

Mattman1977 · Jun 17, 2019

That’s the million dollar question right now.

brandon429 · Jun 17, 2019

if I'm not mistaken the top shot is the current tank, and the bottom closeups are from a prior time?

both are zero ammonia condition due to opened corals, I can't zoom in on that smaller full tank pic but I see an open anem on the left, they'll close tight with true burning free ammonia present/no current ammonia issue is at hand if that's the most recent pic.

we'd have to know where a strong source of ammo

Even people who disagree about base cycling specifics can agree the hallmark of a completed cycle is the ability to manage ammonia from compounding daily. Further proof you don't have an ammonia issue is in the fact you don't have any room left to be compounding

if the 8ppm was real, your lady w boot you due to home stench/ the real level is zero ammonia and every day would add more and the water would be cloudy, with lost animals days ago.

this is another reason why claimed .25 ammonia systems don't hold up...that number has to be compounding daily to be real, not just holding. Holding means the bac are there...

Whether or not there was an ammonia event upon setup of this tank has to come from detritus moved over, if any. Looks too clean to have been a messy tank transfer, all cloudy from pent up waste put back into suspension (and stink)

I bet it was a no ammonia event the whole time, its a testing confound somehow

eric.20 · Jun 17, 2019

The close up pictures are from before. When I will come home I will take pictures of the corals now. I dimmed the light now to 50%.

The pictures I just posted just shows how happy the corals where before

eric.20 · Jun 17, 2019

Here are some pictures of our Corals now

eric.20 · Jun 17, 2019

They don’t look happy

MnFish1 · Jun 17, 2019

eric.20 said:
In the 20g tank we had so many rocks, it was around 30pounds and we didn’t like the look so that’s why we put more rocks in the sump so we don’t really see them

So - it makes sense that the ammonia (with prime in the water) is reading 1 ppm. I assume. I would do another change soon? not for ammonia - which I think is not now an issue - but incase there are other toxins etc - that may be irritating the corals. Im sorry I cant remember - are you using carbon> (activated). Sometimes when corals/zoas/LPS are moved - they release toxins (oh and anemones as well) which can cause this. Carbon will help remove any problem issues.

eric.20 · Jun 17, 2019

MnFish1 said:
So - it makes sense that the ammonia (with prime in the water) is reading 1 ppm. I assume. I would do another change soon? not for ammonia - which I think is not now an issue - but incase there are other toxins etc - that may be irritating the corals. Im sorry I cant remember - are you using carbon> (activated). Sometimes when corals/zoas/LPS are moved - they release toxins (oh and anemones as well) which can cause this. Carbon will help remove any problem issues.

we dont have carbon as people told us our tank is too new to use it..
we have purigen and chemi pure.
also I just did a 50-60% water change