Help hard plumbing

[Redemption626]

So I’ve done my hard plumbing and now that I got it all moving the flow meters says I don’t have enough for main tank I’m hittting 400-450 and uv up to 140 it’s a 90 gallon tank thinking I’m going to have to gut all my hard work. Before I do this any tips on how to do new hard plumbing to include hard plumbing uv and a manifold.

 

[mcarroll]

Don't try to use a flow meter in this way.....to avoid the theoretical parts of setup.

You want to work backwards from your requirements – what you need the system to do.

The general recommendation is for 2x-4x the display size in GPH for sump flow. More or less is also fine, depending on what you're doing.

If it's a 90 gallon tank, that means you need around 200 GPH or so.

I'm guessing you can get that with your current setup. Is that 1" plumbing? What pump do you have currently?

As for UV, how to install it correctly and what flow it needs depends on "why" you are installing UV. Why?

 

[Redemption626]

It is 1” plumbing right up to bulk head then about two inch’s 3/4”. I have the cor15 pump. And the 25w uv is for algae.

 

[Redemption626]

Don't try to use a flow meter in this way.....to avoid the theoretical parts of setup.

You want to work backwards from your requirements – what you need the system to do.

The general recommendation is for 2x-4x the display size in GPH for sump flow. More or less is also fine, depending on what you're doing.

If it's a 90 gallon tank, that means you need around 200 GPH or so.

I'm guessing you can get that with your current setup. Is that 1" plumbing? What pump do you have currently?

As for UV, how to install it correctly and what flow it needs depends on "why" you are installing UV. Why?

See above

 

[winxp_man]

As @mcarroll stated. Once the Why’s are answered then further elaboration about the topic can be discussed. For example there are different flows for algae, vs parasite sterilization for a UV unit.

Also what pump are you running and how many watts is your UV?



Nvmd…. You just posted the answer about the watts and pump.


So for algae it also depends on what type you’re targeting. Dinos for some with 2-3x turn over rate does the trick.

 

[Boehmtown]

I plumbed up from my basement through all kinds of bends. Using a jaebo 15,000 . If that's not enough they have a 20,000 (liters). Goes up about 16 feet and a loop for a UV. And is sub 2-300 dollars

 

[winxp_man]

@Boehmtown You can always go big to go home with a Reef Octo Varios 10!

 

[mcarroll]

It is 1” plumbing right up to bulk head then about two inch’s 3/4”. I have the cor15 pump. And the 25w uv is for algae.

Looks like a plumbing height of only 3-5' to the top of the tank, so correct me if that's wrong.

Thanks to Champion Lighting's website for the graph....The COR-15 looks like it should generate a potential flow around 600 GPH at that height. So no problem there.

Since you only need 200 GPH to the display and 1" is plenty to carry that (so is 3/4") it seems like your setup should be fine and you should have "plenty" of extra flow.

 

[MasterClassReefs]

@Boehmtown You can always go big to go home with a Reef Octo Varios 10!

 

[winxp_man]

When I crank mine to 80-90 in my 300, that ship GIF is what takes place! Fish are all over the place! Tried it once!

It was a day before I installed the reefmat 1200. Haha.

 

[MasterClassReefs]

When I crank mine to 80-90 in my 300, that ship GIF is what takes place! Fish are all over the place! Tried it once!

It was a day before I installed the reefmat 1200. Haha.

I have 2 for my 405 plumbed with 1.5" pvc. Looking forward to seeing them in action.

 

[MasterClassReefs]

So I’ve done my hard plumbing and now that I got it all moving the flow meters says I don’t have enough for main tank I’m hittting 400-450 and uv up to 140 it’s a 90 gallon tank thinking I’m going to have to gut all my hard work. Before I do this any tips on how to do new hard plumbing to include hard plumbing uv and a manifold.

dig the Vault-Tech plumbing.

 

[Redemption626]

dig the Vault-Tech plumbing.

 

[Redemption626]

I was going for thousandsons colors lol

 

[jmaneyapanda]

Looks like a plumbing height of only 3-5' to the top of the tank, so correct me if that's wrong.

Thanks to Champion Lighting's website for the graph....The COR-15 looks like it should generate a potential flow around 600 GPH at that height. So no problem there.

Since you only need 200 GPH to the display and 1" is plenty to carry that (so is 3/4") it seems like your setup should be fine and you should have "plenty" of extra flow.

Bear in mind, every one of those 90° bends is going to add head pressure too.

 

[Redemption626]

Looks like a plumbing height of only 3-5' to the top of the tank, so correct me if that's wrong.

Thanks to Champion Lighting's website for the graph....The COR-15 looks like it should generate a potential flow around 600 GPH at that height. So no problem there.

Since you only need 200 GPH to the display and 1" is plenty to carry that (so is 3/4") it seems like your setup should be fine and you should have "plenty" of extra flow.

Bear in mind, every one of those 90° bends is going to add head pressure too.

Ya I think I’m eventually just going to get around to redoing make the manifold off the return line as well as shorten the uv line help clean it up and look nicer I feel.

 

[mcarroll]

Bear in mind, every one of those 90° bends is going to add head pressure too.

That only seems to matter significantly if the flow it high or the pipe-size is small.....either of those increase the area of turbulence in the pipe and reduce the area for flow.

If the pipe size is adequate to the flow, fittings seem to make almost no difference compared to vertical head pressure and total length of plumbing. And vertical head is much more significant that length.

For example, adding 10 elbows to the equation only increases head pressure by about 1.5 feet which (using the COR15 flow curve) doesn't change the flow significantly.

Friction loss calculators like this are out there....but try to avoid the ones you find in the hobby.

Friction Loss Calculator | Line Loss Calculator

This line loss calculator is useful for calculating friction loss in piping systems. Formulas used include Hazen Williams, Darcy Weisbach, and Fanning Churchhill.

inventory.powerzone.com

In the OP's case where only around 200 GPH is required, he's in good shape....even 3/4" plumbing could do the job without stress and they have 1".

Ya I think I’m eventually just going to get around to redoing make the manifold off the return line as well as shorten the uv line help clean it up and look nicer I feel.

That's certainly an option!

 

[jmaneyapanda]

Bear in mind, every one of those 90° bends is going to add head pressure too.

That’s very interesting. That contradicts everything I’ve ever read or experienced.

https://support.ecotechmarine.com/hc/en-us/articles/215339608-How-do-I-calculate-head-pressure

Whereas your reference seems quite technical. I’ll need to rethink this.

 

[mcarroll]

That link sounds mostly right. If you adjust the pipe size down enough, I'm sure you can make fittings more relevant.....but that's never the goal, and it's usually cheap at our scale to increase pipe size....eg from 1/2" to 3/4" or 1".

I think it helps to visualize turbulence and flow in the pipe. Pretend you're looking down a pipe as water is pumped through it.

Turbulence exists all along the inside pipe surface and MORE FLOW generates MORE TURBULENCE.

Flow exists only in the center of the pipe beyond the turbulence zone.

Turbulence is like a donut. Flow is the hole. Too much flow in too small a pipe and you end up with a Bismark.

;)

So all else being equal...

...the more turbulence that's created, the less space there is for flow in the pipe.

Also...

...the larger the pipe size, the more room there is for flow inside the turbulence.

 

[jmaneyapanda]

That link sounds mostly right. If you adjust the pipe size down enough, I'm sure you can make fittings more relevant.....but that's never the goal, and it's usually cheap at our scale to increase pipe size....eg from 1/2" to 3/4" or 1".

I think it helps to visualize turbulence and flow in the pipe. Pretend you're looking down a pipe as water is pumped through it.

Turbulence exists all along the inside pipe surface and MORE FLOW generates MORE TURBULENCE.

Flow exists only in the center of the pipe beyond the turbulence zone.

Turbulence is like a donut. Flow is the hole. Too much flow in too small a pipe and you end up with a Bismark.

;)

So all else being equal...

...the more turbulence that's created, the less space there is for flow in the pipe.

Also...

...the larger the pipe size, the more room there is for flow inside the turbulence.

Im confused again, wouldnt the link I provided reasonably contradict your statement that the 90s would provide negligible head loss? The link I provide (and see on numerous other hobbyist sites) indicate that a 90 would create a 1 foot head pressure loss. With the amount of 90s OP is using, that would account for notable loss in comparing to the pumps flow curve. I do understand completely why smaller pipe reduces flow, stiction, turbulence, etc. Why is why im rather shocked the calculator you linked indicates a minimal or even negligible reduction in flow for what would be a significant introduction of restriction by those forces in several 90s. What am I misunderstanding?