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Ctafesh

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Hi all,

was hoping you could help me figure out what is going on......posted a video so you could see. Some fish have white spots, but it looks like too many to be Ich and the clowns have a couple black spots
They’re still eating, but not as ravenously as usual.
They’re in QT and we are trying to catch the rest of the fish to let the DT go fallow.

Tank parameters
90 gallon
PH 7.83
temp 77
Alk- 8.62
Ca-456
1325Mg
LET ME KNOW YOURE THOUGHTS
 

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vetteguy53081

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Its velvet and needs treatment ASAP
begin with a 5 minute freshwater bath or until they become antsy. I have had High success with Polyp Lab "MEDIC" which is also reef safe for treatment. In the video, they are starting to breathe rapidly which is a sign of irritation to gills from protozoans.
For now, you can do a copper treatment. I recommend quarantining but realize not everyone can accomodate a qt setup, for which i again recommend Medic.
Lets get input also from Jay who is R2R disease go -to person

@Jay Hemdal
 

Jay Hemdal

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Agree with @vetteguy53081 - this appears to be a severe case of Amyloodinium, Velvet. One thing I didn't see in your post though - what is the ammonia level?

A FW dip will buy you a bit of time, moving the fish to a clean QT also helps limit the parasite load, but to truly cure it, you need to get them into full strength copper ASAP (using a good test kit or a Hanna Checker). I can't impress upon you that you must move swiftly - once fish loss occurs, the other fish may follow, despite a treatment. I've not used Polyp Lab Medic, but I worry that it won't work fast enough in this instance. It is apparently a peroxide salt. Peroxide has been studied as a dip for velvet, but at a much higher dose. FWIW, here is a section from my upcoming book on velevet:


Amyloodinium (a.k.a. marine velvet disease)

Cause
Commonly known as “marine velvet” in hobby parlance, Amyloodinium is caused by a dinoflagellate protozoan that can produce severe epidemics in aquariums. Furthermore, it can infect fishes that are normally more resistant to other marine protozoan diseases (e.g., Cryptocaryon), such as sharks, rays, and eels.

Symptoms
The life cycle of Amyloodinium is very similar to that of Cryptocaryon, as are the possible treatments available, but it has less distinctive early symptoms and can cause fish mortalities much sooner than other protozoan infections—sometimes within 12 hours of the onset of obvious symptoms. This disease begins as an infection of the fish’s gills, and only in advanced cases does it spread to the skin, giving it a “velvety” look.

Beginning aquarists often miss the first symptoms and commonly report, “All my fish suddenly died, but the invertebrates are all fine.” Since invertebrates are typically more sensitive to water-quality issues than fish are, the fact that the fish suddenly died but the invertebrates were unharmed means that water-quality problems can be ruled out. That leaves a fish disease, and Amyloodinium can often be diagnosed without even needing to perform a necropsy on the fish due to the rapidity of the fish loss!

Diagnosis
The key to early diagnosis of Amyloodinium is to monitor the fish’s gill health by taking regular fish respiration rates. This is a simple matter of counting the number of gill beats in one minute for a representative fish in the aquarium and then rechecking the respiration rate every few days to watch for any elevation in that rate.

Newly acquired fish that are not being treated prophylactically should have their respiration rate checked daily, as these fish are the ones at greatest risk of developing this disease. The actual respiration rate is not that important, it is a rise in the rate that must be monitored for.

Different species of fish will respire at different rates. Smaller fish breathe faster than large ones, and fish in warmer water will respire faster as well. Typically, tropical fish will respire between 60 and 120 gill beats per minute. If you can’t view the fish for a full minute, you can try counting for 15 seconds and multiplying the result by four.

Knowing your fish’s normal baseline respiration rate is vital; any rise in that rate above 30% (and not attributable to something else, such as the fish being chased by a tankmate) should be viewed as a possible symptom of this disease.

Treatment
Treatments for Amyloodinium cannot be performed with invertebrates present, yet the entire tank usually needs to be treated in order to eradicate it. Copper sulfate at 0.20 ppm for 14 days is one often-used cure. Chloroquine at 8 to 15 ppm as a 30-day static bath is another treatment that has been used with good success.


Jay
 
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Ctafesh

Ctafesh

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Agree with @vetteguy53081 - this appears to be a severe case of Amyloodinium, Velvet. One thing I didn't see in your post though - what is the ammonia level?

A FW dip will buy you a bit of time, moving the fish to a clean QT also helps limit the parasite load, but to truly cure it, you need to get them into full strength copper ASAP (using a good test kit or a Hanna Checker). I can't impress upon you that you must move swiftly - once fish loss occurs, the other fish may follow, despite a treatment. I've not used Polyp Lab Medic, but I worry that it won't work fast enough in this instance. It is apparently a peroxide salt. Peroxide has been studied as a dip for velvet, but at a much higher dose. FWIW, here is a section from my upcoming book on velevet:


Amyloodinium (a.k.a. marine velvet disease)

Cause
Commonly known as “marine velvet” in hobby parlance, Amyloodinium is caused by a dinoflagellate protozoan that can produce severe epidemics in aquariums. Furthermore, it can infect fishes that are normally more resistant to other marine protozoan diseases (e.g., Cryptocaryon), such as sharks, rays, and eels.

Symptoms
The life cycle of Amyloodinium is very similar to that of Cryptocaryon, as are the possible treatments available, but it has less distinctive early symptoms and can cause fish mortalities much sooner than other protozoan infections—sometimes within 12 hours of the onset of obvious symptoms. This disease begins as an infection of the fish’s gills, and only in advanced cases does it spread to the skin, giving it a “velvety” look.

Beginning aquarists often miss the first symptoms and commonly report, “All my fish suddenly died, but the invertebrates are all fine.” Since invertebrates are typically more sensitive to water-quality issues than fish are, the fact that the fish suddenly died but the invertebrates were unharmed means that water-quality problems can be ruled out. That leaves a fish disease, and Amyloodinium can often be diagnosed without even needing to perform a necropsy on the fish due to the rapidity of the fish loss!

Diagnosis
The key to early diagnosis of Amyloodinium is to monitor the fish’s gill health by taking regular fish respiration rates. This is a simple matter of counting the number of gill beats in one minute for a representative fish in the aquarium and then rechecking the respiration rate every few days to watch for any elevation in that rate.

Newly acquired fish that are not being treated prophylactically should have their respiration rate checked daily, as these fish are the ones at greatest risk of developing this disease. The actual respiration rate is not that important, it is a rise in the rate that must be monitored for.

Different species of fish will respire at different rates. Smaller fish breathe faster than large ones, and fish in warmer water will respire faster as well. Typically, tropical fish will respire between 60 and 120 gill beats per minute. If you can’t view the fish for a full minute, you can try counting for 15 seconds and multiplying the result by four.

Knowing your fish’s normal baseline respiration rate is vital; any rise in that rate above 30% (and not attributable to something else, such as the fish being chased by a tankmate) should be viewed as a possible symptom of this disease.

Treatment
Treatments for Amyloodinium cannot be performed with invertebrates present, yet the entire tank usually needs to be treated in order to eradicate it. Copper sulfate at 0.20 ppm for 14 days is one often-used cure. Chloroquine at 8 to 15 ppm as a 30-day static bath is another treatment that has been used with good success.


Jay
Thanks so much. With regards to ammonia level, there is no detectable ammonia. We have moved the fish to a QT tank with Cupramine, and given metroplex. It looks like I will have to go fallow.
Ive got coral in my DT, so I dont want to take the chance to try to treat it in there. For the fallow period, do I need to remove my inverts? Also, are the anemones ok to stay in the DT?
I just want to make sure there is nothing that can keep the cycle going.
 

Jay Hemdal

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You just need to remove all fish, inverts don’t host this parasite, so can remain.
Jay
 
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