HELP Vibrant for reef aquariums

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XandryaLynn

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Hi, thanks for the pics :) We have had a few handfuls of people read the directions wrong by dosing 1ml per gallon instead of per 10 gallons with no issues, so believe this is not a overdose thing. The only time we have run into something like this, is when there are toxic dinos or toxins held within the algae's. This is super rare, but I can only assume there was some form of toxins held within the algae your tank had. The only other thing I can think of, would be low oxygen levels, which generally wouldn't happen so quickly. What do you run for filtrations on your tank?
also odd question, could the vibrant have been affected if it was frozen during the shipping process?
 
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XandryaLynn

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update on the fish
3 out of 10 made it to the quarantine tank.
after an hour, now only on pajama cardinal remains.
.... this is frustrating to say the least.
 

UWC

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also odd question, could the vibrant have been affected if it was frozen during the shipping process?
Hi, no, totally fine if it freezes, even completely solid, as long as it is left to sit out and return back to room temp before use. We are based out of Minneapolis so this is something we had to figure out as we have such dramatic temp swings here.
 

Zerobytes

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update on the fish
3 out of 10 made it to the quarantine tank.
after an hour, now only on pajama cardinal remains.
.... this is frustrating to say the least.
This is so terrible. Hopefully, the smart folks here can diagnose it. Sorry for all your losses.
 

Terri Caton

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Your tank was very “dirty”. For all of these bacterial products it is recommended to start at 1/2 dose for “high nutrient” (dirty) tanks. In those tanks overdosing (even a normal dose) can cause a drop in Oxygen levels.
 
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XandryaLynn

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Your tank was very “dirty”. For all of these bacterial products it is recommended to start at 1/2 dose for “high nutrient” (dirty) tanks. In those tanks overdosing (even a normal dose) can cause a drop in Oxygen levels.
thank you. at least now i know what caused this. i appreciate you telling me this. no one else really seamed to have an answer for where we went wrong. the whole even was really frustrating and not knowing what caused it made it even more frustrating. so thank you.
#vibrant bottle didn't say anything about starting at a half dose. and there was no warning label about causing the oxygen level to drop like this.
 

homer1475

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Your tank was very “dirty”. For all of these bacterial products it is recommended to start at 1/2 dose for “high nutrient” (dirty) tanks. In those tanks overdosing (even a normal dose) can cause a drop in Oxygen levels.
It doesn't say that on the bottle, because it's simply false information. I've been using vibrant since it came out. Even triple dosed it with 0 side effects. Adding bacteria in a bottle will have 0 effect on your oxygen levels.

There are 2 HUGE threads about vibrant, here and on RC, and yet no one(even triple dosed) had a drop in oxygen levels.

My tank when starting vibrant was so bad you couldn't even see the rocks, just algae. Single dose made a dent, subsequent dosing fought it back except the bubble algae. Dosing twice a week knocked it out. I actually think what killed the BA was I accidently triple dosed the tank, but again with 0 issues other then dying algae.
 

homer1475

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I do wonder though, that with the die off of algae. if a bacterial bloom wasn't to blame(would explain the cloudiness, and lack of oxygen?)
 

CALI2949

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NEVER HAD A ISSUE WITH VIBRANT. NOW I'M USING SEACHEMS PRIME WITH BETTER RESULTS. CHECK IT OUT IT'S CHEAPER.
 

homer1475

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NEVER HAD A ISSUE WITH VIBRANT. NOW I'M USING SEACHEMS PRIME WITH BETTER RESULTS. CHECK IT OUT IT'S CHEAPER.
2 totally different products. Vibrant is a bacterial product that eats algae. Prime is a water conditioner or ammonia detoxifier.
 
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homer1475

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Had to look up pristine, had never heard of it. I wonder how it compares to vibrant, and why no one else is using it instead of vibrant?
 

ReefGeezer

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Had to look up pristine, had never heard of it. I wonder how it compares to vibrant, and why no one else is using it instead of vibrant?
I use Vibrant but have considered Pristine because it is sold locally. It appears to be the same sort of product. That said, I have had good experiences with Vibrant so far. I've always added 10ml in my roughly 100 gallon system with no signs of any stress to fish, inverts, or corals..
 
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XandryaLynn

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I do wonder though, that with the die off of algae. if a bacterial bloom wasn't to blame(would explain the cloudiness, and lack of oxygen?)
what caused the fish to die was an rapid and extreme ammonia spike, after we pulled the fish out we tested the water and the ammonia level was roughly 0.5ppm-1.0ppm
so it technically wasnt an "oxygen" issue per-say.
UWC said the only time theyve run into something like this is when there are toxic dinos or toxins held within the algae, and that our tank probably also had toxins within the algae's.
but im still confused about what caused the ammonia to spike like that.
 

homer1475

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what caused the fish to die was an rapid and extreme ammonia spike, after we pulled the fish out we tested the water and the ammonia level was roughly 0.5ppm-1.0ppm
so it technically wasnt an "oxygen" issue per-say.
UWC said the only time theyve run into something like this is when there are toxic dinos or toxins held within the algae, and that our tank probably also had toxins within the algae's.
but im still confused about what caused the ammonia to spike like that.
I've read the entire thread. I saw the comment by @UWC about the toxic dino's. I think it was more "spitballing" ideas and issues they've actually seen in customers tanks(remember UWC is/was a professional tank service, which is how vibrant started). Only way to know for sure if thats what caused your issue is to first know if you had dino's to begin with.

The ammonia issue might have started with the first deaths(microlife) and cascaded out of control from there. If you had noticed it right from the start, something like prime might have bought you some time. Food for thought if you ever run across something like this again.

Sucks loosing lives, but unfortunately some thing are out of our control.
 
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XandryaLynn

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I've read the entire thread. I saw the comment by @UWC about the toxic dino's. I think it was more "spitballing" ideas and issues they've actually seen in customers tanks(remember UWC is/was a professional tank service, which is how vibrant started). Only way to know for sure if thats what caused your issue is to first know if you had dino's to begin with.

The ammonia issue might have started with the first deaths(microlife) and cascaded out of control from there. If you had noticed it right from the start, something like prime might have bought you some time. Food for thought if you ever run across something like this again.

Sucks loosing lives, but unfortunately some thing are out of our control.
i guess that makes sense, ill definitely look into prime. it would probably be a good idea just to keep something like that on hand.
thank you very much.
 

Reef Box

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I don't believe this question has been asked but is there any chance this was a "knock off" or fake version bought from an online auction or such? I don't even know if thats a thing with vibrant but I have seen similar things that are "hot items" being cheaply duplicated and offered for cheap to make a quick buck.......Just a thought.
 

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I know I'm late to this thread but it was just brought to my attention. I'm so sorry for the losses!

In a healthy reef tank it is bacteria and coral that will directly process ammonia. Some algae will also process ammonia directly. I suspect that this is not a new algae issue and that it has been occurring for some time. In this case, the algae may be starving out the nitrifying bacteria causing it to process ammonia at a much lower rate. It can take hours, if not days, for the nitrifying bacteria to "bounce back" and start processing ammonia and there may not be enough of them to meet the bioload of the tank.
If you are a heavy feeder, have a small CuC, or don't do frequent water changes with sand vacuuming it's possible to get an ammonia spike when rapidly removing algae. Or, in this case, when adding a product that directly attacks the algae. I've seen reefers experience this same phenomena when deciding to take an algae refugium off line. It's best done slowly to allow a good balance to be maintained in the tank.

As has been mentioned, it is also possible that dying algae will release toxins or heavy metals. The fact it happened so rapidly makes me doubt this was the problem but it cannot be completely ruled out. I don't see signs of dinoflagellates in your pictures and GAC is very effective at removing those toxins.

Before adding fish back to the system I would strongly recommend sending off an ICP test. Especially if you do not use RODI water for mixing salt water or don't do regular water changes. The tests are cheap compared to the livestock we care for in our system.

Please let me know if I can be of any help as you recover from this.
 
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