Help with fish death/diagnosis

[sheasta]

I will start by saying I didn’t quarantine any fish , they were “pre-quarantined “ by breeder and LFS plus I don’t have another tank (in the market now I learned my lesson). I am new to saltwater but have experience with African cichlids. It’s a 3’ 48 gallon and had 9 fish. Two ocellaris clowns, a mandarin, a McCoskers flasher wrasse, a tomini tang, a royal gramma , yellow Cori’s wrasse, yasha goby, purple fire fish goby. All fish young small juvies around an inch but the flasher and corris are maybe 2”-2.5 max. Noticed a small young royal gramma flashing. He was being bullied a bit by the yellow Corris wrasse. Had some spots on his tail I thought was just lympho. He was eating , new to the tank, eating etc. Next day he was vanished (never found the body) and I thought he was hiding. Next morning one of the clowns (whom I had for 4-5 weeks no problems) was laying on the sand , heavy gasping , and some discoloration. Noticed the mandarin was similar and they looked like they had like webby mucus on them with lack of better description. I tried to fresh water dip the clown who on death me doorstep and he passed. I took videos and pics to the LFS. They thought the other clown killed it but I explained I tink there some disease. They didn’t help much. I was sent home with kanaplex and give it a day. No other fish have symptoms at this point besides mandarin. That evening mandarin passes. Next morning everyone looks fine and I decide I think it’s flukes just by research and googling plus brook or velvet kill everyone quickly and that didn’t happen so I ruled it out . Next evening other clown died. Everyone else is fine. I have no coral yet but I have inverts so can’t lower salinity or treat copper. I treat prazipro. Fish look stressed but not dying. A week goes by everyone’s fine, eating etc. I still see the yellow Cori’s flashing but no spots or discoloration etc. Also everyone eating etc. Treat second dose of prazipro after doing 25% WC (yesterday) and see this evening the flasher wrasse has stringy white poop and fuzzyish looking body. This morning there was what looked like webs around the area the wrasse was sleeping and I just thought it was snail mucus or something or some kind of algae but remembered something similar near mandarin before it passed. Now the tomini tang won’t leave its cave and the wrasse is fuzzy. I’m not sure what to do . What a nightmare. I’ve kept fish for years and never had a problem and 1.5-2 months into saltwater I lost $400 worth of fish and the rest at risk of death as well.

 

[sheasta]

 

[vetteguy53081]

I will start by saying I didn’t quarantine any fish , they were “pre-quarantined “ by breeder and LFS plus I don’t have another tank (in the market now I learned my lesson). I am new to saltwater but have experience with African cichlids. It’s a 3’ 48 gallon and had 9 fish. Two ocellaris clowns, a mandarin, a McCoskers flasher wrasse, a tomini tang, a royal gramma , yellow Cori’s wrasse, yasha goby, purple fire fish goby. All fish young small juvies around an inch but the flasher and corris are maybe 2”-2.5 max. Noticed a small young royal gramma flashing. He was being bullied a bit by the yellow Corris wrasse. Had some spots on his tail I thought was just lympho. He was eating , new to the tank, eating etc. Next day he was vanished (never found the body) and I thought he was hiding. Next morning one of the clowns (whom I had for 4-5 weeks no problems) was laying on the sand , heavy gasping , and some discoloration. Noticed the mandarin was similar and they looked like they had like webby mucus on them with lack of better description. I tried to fresh water dip the clown who on death me doorstep and he passed. I took videos and pics to the LFS. They thought the other clown killed it but I explained I tink there some disease. They didn’t help much. I was sent home with kanaplex and give it a day. No other fish have symptoms at this point besides mandarin. That evening mandarin passes. Next morning everyone looks fine and I decide I think it’s flukes just by research and googling plus brook or velvet kill everyone quickly and that didn’t happen so I ruled it out . Next evening other clown died. Everyone else is fine. I have no coral yet but I have inverts so can’t lower salinity or treat copper. I treat prazipro. Fish look stressed but not dying. A week goes by everyone’s fine, eating etc. I still see the yellow Cori’s flashing but no spots or discoloration etc. Also everyone eating etc. Treat second dose of prazipro after doing 25% WC (yesterday) and see this evening the flasher wrasse has stringy white poop and fuzzyish looking body. This morning there was what looked like webs around the area the wrasse was sleeping and I just thought it was snail mucus or something or some kind of algae but remembered something similar near mandarin before it passed. Now the tomini tang won’t leave its cave and the wrasse is fuzzy. I’m not sure what to do . What a nightmare. I’ve kept fish for years and never had a problem and 1.5-2 months into saltwater I lost $400 worth of fish and the rest at risk of death as well.

Clown looks to have heavy mucus on its body and on fins, possible bacterial lesions . The white clown also looked quite thin. The gramma is susceptible to flukes but hard to tell without more history such as itching, sudden darting and heavy breathing as examples. When acquiring quarantined fish, assume they have something and do your own quarantine to prevent what you just experienced. Same would apply to acclimation.

 

[sheasta]

Clown looks to have heavy mucus on its body and on fins, possible bacterial lesions . The white clown also looked quite thin. The gramma is susceptible to flukes but hard to tell without more history such as itching, sudden darting and heavy breathing as examples. When acquiring quarantined fish, assume they have something and do your own quarantine to prevent what you just experienced. Same would apply to acclimation.

I think it is velvet

 

[sheasta]

Clown looks to have heavy mucus on its body and on fins, possible bacterial lesions . The white clown also looked quite thin. The gramma is susceptible to flukes but hard to tell without more history such as itching, sudden darting and heavy breathing as examples. When acquiring quarantined fish, assume they have something and do your own quarantine to prevent what you just experienced. Same would apply to acclimation.

I think it’s velvet see most recent pics

 

[vetteguy53081]

The wrasse is showing early signs of ich and you will need to place fish in Quarantine tank and treat with Coppersafe or Copper Power at therapeutic level 2.25 for a FULL 30 days (do not interrupt this 30 day period) monitored with a Hanna Brand copper test kit- No API brand. Also monitor Ammonia levels while in quarantine with a reliable test kit and add aeration during treatment using an air stone. All other fish in with it should also be removed as they have also been exposed to the parasites and placed in quarantine tank.
The display tank will have to be kept fishless (FALLOW) for 6-8 weeks to assure the existing parasites go through their life cycle without a host fish and die off.
A quarantine tank can be as simple as a tank from a second hand store, a Rubbermaid type tub or a starter kit from Walmart which most of the needed essentials.

 

[sheasta]

The wrasse is showing early signs of ich and you will need to place fish in Quarantine tank and treat with Coppersafe or Copper Power at therapeutic level 2.25 for a FULL 30 days (do not interrupt this 30 day period) monitored with a Hanna Brand copper test kit- No API brand. Also monitor Ammonia levels while in quarantine with a reliable test kit and add aeration during treatment using an air stone. All other fish in with it should also be removed as they have also been exposed to the parasites and placed in quarantine tank.
The display tank will have to be kept fishless (FALLOW) for 6-8 weeks to assure the existing parasites go through their life cycle without a host fish and die off.
A quarantine tank can be as simple as a tank from a second hand store, a Rubbermaid type tub or a starter kit from Walmart which most of the needed essentials.

I have no coral yet, what if I go hyper salinity and move inverts to a separate tank or will the copper get soaked into substrate and rock ?

 

[sgdnycct]

How old is your tank?
How long has it been cycled?
What are your parameters?

First step should be to ensure water quality.

If this is going to be a fish only tank you could treat as needed in the tank. Just note it could prevent you from adding inverts in the future.

 

[Johnd651]

I ran into a similar issue. Brook and velvet from a coral vendor recently. There's some evidence that you can dose hydrogen peroxide directly into a DT. I've managed to stop the deaths.

How To - Peroxide (H2O2) dosing for parasites in reef tank

***Current dosing recommendation for active outbreaks, using 3% hydrogen peroxide*** (a TLDR for people who just need to know how to get started) Week 1: 1mL/8g, 3x per day Week 2: 1mL/5g, 3x per day Week 3: 1mL/5g, 3x per day, plus overnight dosing. Continue the week 3 dosing regimen for a...

www.humble.fish

 

[vetteguy53081]

Copper will get absorbed by rock and substrate and hyposalinity at 1.009 is acceptable but at times a risk as not all fish endure it well

 

[vetteguy53081]

Copper will get absorbed by rock and substrate and hyposalinity at 1.009 is acceptable but at times a risk as not all fish endure it well and Peroxide is an oxidizer and rarely works.

 

[sheasta]

I have no coral yet, what if I go hyper salinity and move inverts to a separate tank or will the copper get soaked into substrate and rock ?

Tank is about 2 months old. 0 ammonia , 0 nitrite and 2.7 nitrate. Not a water issue. Definitely a parasite.

 

[sheasta]

Copper will get absorbed by rock and substrate and hyposalinity at 1.009 is acceptable but at times a risk as not all fish endure it well and Peroxide is an oxidizer and rarely works.

Is it normal for the fish to be fine then overnight be heavy breathing and covered In Excess mucus and spots ? I was thinking more velvet but you know more about this than I do. I wonder if A. the prazipro stressed them and caused an outbreak as it was previously dormant or B. The new eggs hatched since it’s been about a week. Even in the initial outbreak fish were fine the nigh before then next nothing there’s two half dead fish covered in this while all the other fish are normal and it took a week for any other fish to “catch” the sickness

 

[sheasta]

So if I just grab a 20 gallon tank , throw some seeded filter media in there and some pvc pipes for hiding, I could put all 5 fish in there and treat in there ? Maybe an auto top off too to maintain salinity ?

 

[christinna77]

Tank is about 2 months old.

This is so sad to watch. Just a side note, having 9 fish in a tank that is only 2 months old is not reasonable. You need to add fish slowly so the biofiltration can keep up. It also helps them settle in and you can observe them for any aggression issues before adding more fish.

I’ve kept fish for years and never had a problem and 1.5-2 months into saltwater I lost $400 worth of fish and the rest at risk of death as well.

Saltwater is way less forgiving. You are often dealing with wild caught fish that go through a lot of shipping stress. Diseases are much more common too. A quarantine tank is extremely important.

So if I just grab a 20 gallon tank , throw some seeded filter media in there and some pvc pipes for hiding, I could put all 5 fish in there and treat in there ? Maybe an auto top off too to maintain salinity ?

I would go the copper route if you're moving everything to a quarantine tank. It is much easier to keep the levels stable and your remaining fish should all handle it fine, better than hypo. You will need Copper Power or CopperSafe, along with a Hanna copper tester to maintain it at 2.2-2.5ppm.
The filter media should not absorb copper. Try to avoid adding any porous materials. Preseeded sponges work best. You will also need a HOB filter and a heater. Add an airstone too.
Five fish in a 20 gallon tank should be ok, but test ammonia every day, do WCs (predosed with copper) as needed, and keep an eye on any aggression.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Is it normal for the fish to be fine then overnight be heavy breathing and covered In Excess mucus and spots ? I was thinking more velvet but you know more about this than I do. I wonder if A. the prazipro stressed them and caused an outbreak as it was previously dormant or B. The new eggs hatched since it’s been about a week. Even in the initial outbreak fish were fine the nigh before then next nothing there’s two half dead fish covered in this while all the other fish are normal and it took a week for any other fish to “catch” the sickness

Sorry, I'm late to the party. The ID of this disease outbreak isn't clear to me; some symptoms look like Cryptocaryon, ich and others seem like Amyloodinium, velvet. It is rare, but you could have both going on at the same time. Hyposalinity doesn't treat velvet, but coppersafe at 2.25 ppm treats both.

For future reference, I wrote up a guide to visual ID of common fish diseases here:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/self-diagnosis-of-common-marine-fish-diseases.1141555/

 

[vetteguy53081]

So if I just grab a 20 gallon tank , throw some seeded filter media in there and some pvc pipes for hiding, I could put all 5 fish in there and treat in there ? Maybe an auto top off too to maintain salinity ?

Quarantine is a start as is medication as first discussed. I see Jay has touched up with similar recommendation. Please work with fish medics on this

 

[sheasta]

thanks for all the help. Have the DT fallow and 5 remaining fish in 20g QT with copper. No more casualties so far. Learned my lesson.

 

[sheasta]

Does the 72 day fallow period start the day I remove the fish or the day I stop adding corals/inverts (after removing the fish) since they can be “carriers” ?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Does the 72 day fallow period start the day I remove the fish or the day I stop adding corals/inverts (after removing the fish) since they can be “carriers” ?

That depends on the system the invertebrates came from. Some dealers house those in fishless systems, those are fine. If not, then it is safest to restart the fallow clock from the date the last animal was added. In many cases, I’ve just added 30 days to the time and it seemed to work.