How to best emulate this beautiful tidepool lighting in an aquarium? Can it be done?

[A. grandis]

Offering an opinion is fine, but pouncing on LED users and trying to beat them and every one around them to your viewpoint is tiresome. "King" or "best" or other superlative terms are all relative. Your criteria for "best" or "king" may differ, often wildly from the criteria of others. The only option here for the OP is not "metal halide or die" so let's not make this thread into that.

You came to mention my name and you are doing this, instead of giving your suggestions to enrich the subject of this thread.
All my contributions in this thread were to help the original post to achieve the main goal for the optimal results IMO.
You are welcome to re-post anything written by me to justify your accusation of my presence to be insufferable. LOL!

Or... would be much better to hear from you what you have to really contribute to the topic instead of coming against me. LOL!

 

[BeanAnimal]

You came to mention my name and you are doing this,

No I came to read other people's thoughts.

instead of giving your suggestions to enrich the subject of this thread.

Oh I think high CRI metal halides would do a wonderful job in this situation. I also think sola tubes would do a wonderful job, as would any lens focussed LED fixture. Metal Halide is high CRI but it is not the only option.

The effect is a combination of high CRI, point source lighting and intensity, as well as camera angle. High CRI T5s would also provide a wonderful effect, albeit with less sharp shadowing.

All my contributions in this thread were to help the original post to achieve the main goal for the optimal results IMO.

Unfortunately, that quickly morphed into your well rehearsed MH zealotry, something that the OP kindly asked for everyone to avoid... so I said something.

 

[A. grandis]

Offering an opinion is fine, but pouncing on LED users and trying to beat them and every one around them to your viewpoint is tiresome. "King" or "best" or other superlative terms are all relative. Your criteria for "best" or "king" may differ, often wildly from the criteria of others. The only option here for the OP is not "metal halide or die" so let's not make this thread into that.

Try your best to contribute to this thread, instead of doing what you are doing.
You are better than that!

 

[A. grandis]

No I came to read other people's thoughts.


Oh I think high CRI metal halides would do a wonderful job in this situation. I also think sola tubes would do a wonderful job, as would any lens focussed LED fixture. Metal Halide is high CRI but it is not the only option.

The effect is a combination of high CRI, point source lighting and intensity, as well as camera angle. High CRI T5s would also provide a wonderful effect, albeit with less sharp shadowing.


Unfortunately, that quickly morphed into your well rehearsed MH zealotry, something that the OP kindly asked for everyone to avoid... so I said something.

You are not going anywhere.
I do not care about anything you are saying.
Can't you understand that?
Please contribute to the thread giving your suggestion, like Oreo did.
You are wasting the tips of your fingers this way. LOL!

 

[BeanAnimal]

Energy is neither created or destroyed

Ermmm -- Entropy called and wants to talk about that destroyed part with you and Albert.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Uh, no, nothing set in stone. I had the Kessils, enjoyed them, but also like the halides. I'm also researching Reefi Uno 2.0 pros, Giesseman fixtures, Kessil W500N commercial fixtures, and open to other options as well.

I am not a fan of the kessils at all. Just a weird blue to me, no matter the model and I don't find them overly "bright" feeling. I think the Unos would be worth a look, but I am not sure that you will get the point source effect that you are looking for.

 

[KrisReef]

Ermmm -- Entropy called and wants to talk about that destroyed part with you and Albert.

I’ll go wake him and we can set up a zoom.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I’ll go wake him and we can set up a zoom.

He doesn't have the energy

 

[buruskeee]

Please contribute to the thread giving your suggestion, like Oreo did.
You are wasting the tips of your fingers this way. LOL!

Like you’ve ever done anything to support yourself without the “LEDs are lasers and will never be good” bit? All you ever do is trash LEDs and say MH is better don’t be a fool, it’s a “fact”.

When confronted to prove you’re baseless “facts”, you resort to your opinions. You haven’t provided one ounce the contribution that Oreo has. Once I see misinformation I call it out - nothing more, nothing less.

If one is your preference, state that. All the extras you can’t help yourself but to spew out can be left out.

The OP asked for options, both MH and LEDs being great options (since solar tubes are out of the question). For some reason you can’t help yourself but try to convince the world they’re wasting money buying LEDs. If you would have kept it straight forward and recommended MH because it’s your preference, great! You’re wired to always mention LEDs though like you have an inferiority complex like they’re somehow threatening your beloved MHs (don’t worry, they’re not the boogeyman).

 

[buruskeee]

I am not a fan of the kessils at all. Just a weird blue to me, no matter the model and I don't find them overly "bright" feeling. I think the Unos would be worth a look, but I am not sure that you will get the point source effect that you are looking for.

Kessils have too much shimmer IMO (but maybe tons of shimmer is what’s being sought after), they need to be paired with T5s or another more linear LED fixture that’s more diffused if I’d ever use them. The Unos are built around a higher color temp spectrum so I’m not sure they would be effective without buying a ton of them. Also have a pink hue (in default spectrum).

 

[BeanAnimal]

Kessils have too much shimmer IMO (but maybe tons of shimmer is what’s being sought after), they need to be paired with T5s or another more linear LED fixture that’s more diffused if I’d ever use them. The Unos are built around a higher color temp spectrum so I’m not sure they would be effective without buying a ton of them. Also have a pink hue (in default spectrum).

I was considering an UNO to go between my Mitras. I have not seen them in person to know what they look like with different settings, default or not.

Yeah Kessil "shimmer" is bothersome to me. No disco, more like strobe. While MH is a point source, it is diffuse also through the reflector. I think it would be interesting to have an LED fixture that was both point source in the downward direction and had upward facing emitters pointed into a reflector. I played with the idea years ago with some multipchip emitters but didn't have a good reflector or par meter to do any measurements.

 

[buruskeee]

I was considering an UNO to go between my Mitras. I have not seen them in person to know what they look like with different settings, default or not.

Yeah Kessil "shimmer" is bothersome to me. No disco, more like strobe. While MH is a point source, it is diffuse also through the reflector. I think it would be interesting to have an LED fixture that was both point source in the downward direction and had upward facing emitters pointed into a reflector. I played with the idea years ago with some multipchip emitters but didn't have a good reflector or par meter to do any measurements.

Radion G5 and G6 basically make the point source bigger and thus achieve much more appetizing shimmer, especially with the diffusers on. I think if you get a super small footprint reflector on a MH, they’ll be as annoying as Kessils too.

Using a “360°” LED chip coupled with Mh style reflectors I think would work, but also add to the heft of the fixture, which is one of the benefits of using LEDs in the first place (wouldn’t matter in a canopy).

Maybe a less diffused Neptune Sky or Phillips would also accomplish that.

I’m surprised those mitras don’t have as much shimmer as they’re basically 6 pucks of point sources.

 

[Otago]

I am thinking about using video LED lights for my upcoming build. I have been using them as room lights for the past few years without a hitch. They are LED COBs and can be adjusted from 3k to 10k with a CRI of 95+. There are also RGB ones that can go full red green or blue.
The attractive thing for me with them is the number of light modifiers, I am looking at a fresnel so I can set up several spot lights like old school Japanese reef tanks with the 70 or 150w metal halide spots.
These are the ones I am looking at, https://www.godox.com/product-d/LED-SL150R/SL300R.html . The ones I have been using as room lights are Godox SL150W and using GEL filters to take them down to 4.5k.

 

[oreo54]

I am thinking about using video LED lights for my upcoming build. I have been using them as room lights for the past few years without a hitch. They are LED COBs and can be adjusted from 3k to 10k with a CRI of 95+. There are also RGB ones that can go full red green or blue.
The attractive thing for me with them is the number of light modifiers, I am looking at a fresnel so I can set up several spot lights like old school Japanese reef tanks with the 70 or 150w metal halide spots.
These are the ones I am looking at, https://www.godox.com/product-d/LED-SL150R/SL300R.html . The ones I have been using as room lights are Godox SL150W and using GEL filters to take them down to 4.5k.

Fun stuff... Personal bias pushes me more to the rgba style.

Chauvet DJ SlimPAR 64 RGBA Low Profile LED Par

Par-style LED Lighting Fixture with 180 x LEDs (39 x Red, 39 x Green, 51 x Blue, 51 x Amber), Built-in Progams, Sound-activation Mode, and 8-/8-channel DMX Operation

www.sweetwater.com

 

[oreo54]

I’m surprised those mitras don’t have as much shimmer as they’re basically 6 pucks of point sources.

Reflectors vs lenses for one thing..

 

[A. grandis]

Like you’ve ever done anything to support yourself without the “LEDs are lasers and will never be good” bit? All you ever do is trash LEDs and say MH is better don’t be a fool, it’s a “fact”.

"LED is a non-coherent source of light, i.e. its photons are out of phase, LASER is a coherent source of light, which means its photons are in phase."
A fast google search will show you the difference between the LED and the laser.
Please quote me if in any occasion I've ever said LEDs are lasers. LOL!

When confronted to prove you’re baseless “facts”, you resort to your opinions. You haven’t provided one ounce the contribution that Oreo has. Once I see misinformation I call it out - nothing more, nothing less.

Are you joking? Baseless? LOL!
Metal halides have the closest representation of sunlight in spectrum (real full spectrum!) and intensity for the reef organisms we keep! One can achieve the very best light distribution with the proper reflector for the right application and get the amazing results very similar to what what we see in nature. LEDs will NEVER... NEVER substitute metal halides for the simple fact that they are not the same technology. Just like metal halides will NEVER... NEVER substitute any LEDs for the same reason. Its about their qualities. What is wrong with you? LOL!
Oreo contributes to this forum with the tools he has. He never had a reef tank in his life as far as I know. It's very easy to copy and past things and prove anything that way. I enjoy many of his posts! So many things we can say, but in practice it just doesn't work that way. Most things he publish are very interesting and works on paper. Practical experience with papers work together and is the best approach as we all know! Not to mention variables!

If one is your preference, state that. All the extras you can’t help yourself but to spew out can be left out.

I don't care what you think! I give my suggestions as I wish! LOL! Stop crying. It's annoying!! LOL!

The OP asked for options, both MH and LEDs being great options (since solar tubes are out of the question). For some reason you can’t help yourself but try to convince the world they’re wasting money buying LEDs.

LEDs do have their room in the market, just like T5s, and just like metal halides.
For the application the OP is asking, metal halides is the best option. Period! The combination with T5s will be extremely beautiful and will help the whole lighting application for his system. I want him to enjoy the best exprience! The KING (halides) and the QUEEN (T5s) together! Yes! Why not?

If you would have kept it straight forward and recommended MH because it’s your preference, great!

My recommendation is based on what I see when I get in those tide pools!

You’re wired to always mention LEDs though like you have an inferiority complex like they’re somehow threatening your beloved MHs (don’t worry, they’re not the boogeyman).

LEDs are the worse of all 3 options to reproduce what the OP wants to reproduce in any way, shape and form.
It seems like you are the one that wants to protect your LEDs. LOL!

Do you think before you post your words?
I hope you will have a great day with your LEDs, or whatever you choose.

No wait... you've been asking so many times...
Here is more...
This is a great example for people to see how much LED manufacturers and marketing have brainwashed the great majority of the hobbyists.

By the way... oh man... let me ask you guys this:

If metal halides indeed represents the very best of what is in nature for shallow water organisms like corals, clams anemones and even fish perhaps... wouldn't be much better to use halides instead of LEDs for any representation of a shallow water system? I mean... those organisms need quality light to thrive and if that is the best light to resemble sunlight...
If people start to put their minds in what is the best for the organisms they keep instead of choosing stupid chromatic blues over their aquariums, this hobby would be a much better way to teach the next generation about the art of keeping sea life in our glass boxes and how important is to keep the organisms healthy, resembling where they came from. That is trying the best! Instead of listening to the marketing ideas and fashions with the fast turnover for easy profit by so many in the industry! Is this about the industry? Or about the organisms? How many professionals with actual experience working on coral farms, have to tell this new generation that halides is unbeatable in so many aspects of qualities. What about heat excuse? Electricity costs? What about those $200.00 - $800.00 frags people buy all the time? And all the unnecessary bottles costing a fortune just to try to remedy the lack of proper light and maintenance! That is the truth!

Have anyone asked why "this hobby has become so complicated"?
Have anyone noticed how AMAZING the tanks were under halides/T5s in the 90's and we just don't see that anymore?? Could the use of LEDs as a primary source of energy, used by so many people, be one of the reasons? Many think so! You are not alone in this world!!!!! So many people changed back to their halide systems just cause they knew better. Whoever tried for the fist time was amazed by the RESULTS! Remember... experience is what maters.
How many LED users are abandoning their LEDs? It is about how far you want to go resembling nature in your house! Ask your grandma!!!!! Ask your kids!!! Ignoring what those so called "experts" and "labs" say it "the best light" and sometimes they say their LEDs are even BETTER THAN METAL HALIDES!!!! Why? Marketing strategy!

Application is very important and with the right application you can still achieve good results using LEDs, BUT facts of light won't change! The qualities of each technology will have their representations as they are.

Everyone can use whatever they want over their tanks, but you can't change sunlight to look like, feel, and behave (physics) like ANY LED does. You can use metal halides to resemble sunlight very well though.

If you were a coral, or a clam, would you like be under LEDs, or under metal halides?? LOL!

 

[oreo54]

If you were a coral, or a clam, would you like be under LEDs, or under metal halides?? LOL!

I'd be under the one without the annoying UV or baking IR...

LEDs are the worse of all 3 options to reproduce what the OP wants to reproduce in any way, shape and form.

100% b....All 3 are equal with proper design. Each has it's uniqueness though

Exposed corals dripping with life saving slime and really brown to boot is not a selling point.
During that period they may survive but thrive ....not so much.

Like I say... Nature's trying to kill you

Natural Threats to Coral Reefs: Corals Tutorial

Coral reefs face numerous threats. Weather-related damage to reefs occurs frequently. Large and powerful waves from hurricanes and cyclones can break apart or flatten large coral heads, scattering their fragments (Barnes & Hughes, 1999; Jones & Endean, 1976). A single storm seldom kills off...

oceanservice.noaa.gov

Reefs also are threatened by tidal emersions. Long periods of exceptionally low tides leave shallow water coral heads exposed, damaging reefs. The amount of damage depends on the time of day and the weather conditions. Corals exposed during daylight hours are subjected to the most ultraviolet radiation, which can overheat and dry out the coral's tissues. Corals may become so physiologically stressed that they begin to expel their symbiotic zooxanthellae, which leads to bleaching, and in many cases, death.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Using a “360°” LED chip coupled with Mh style reflectors I think would work, but also add to the heft of the fixture, which is one of the benefits of using LEDs in the first place (wouldn’t matter in a canopy).

The ReefOptix III were small footprint and would work well. I think I donated mine to the club when I went LED.

I’m surprised those mitras don’t have as much shimmer as they’re basically 6 pucks of point sources.

They are not focussed so behave more like a diffuse light source. I honestly don't want "shimmer", esp with LED. I am not a fan of the disco effect and find even MH shimmer to be distracting to a point.

 

[Damien Buckley]

I prefer this look too. I supplemented my Orphek Atlantik with several of their OR3 LED bars. I added one blue plus which colours up the corals and acts as a night light, but also added 3x Reef Day.

This gets me a nice warm light while not sacrificing the full spectrum of the other lights. But, as others have noted, this is probably difficult to reproduce without halides. Orphek also do a 7,000k freshwater planted version of the OR3 which is way warmer but I'm not sure if this is just going to grow algae in a reef tank

https://orphek.com/orphek-new-or3-freshwater-planted-aquarium-led-bar/

My next tank I'm going to try Orphek Amazonas 960 to achieve similar and for the shimmer.

 

[Kfactor]

i run 2 kessil a360x and one 250w halide and the shimmer is killer . am a big fan of shimmer and if your looking for that look mh all the way