How to Quarantine

[ReefWithCare]

No that was Fishman that claimed India

 

[andys]

Anyone have suggestions on QT-Ing a blue spot ray. She is in our Reef system at our store and I wanna put her in our display. How do you do a sting ray ?

 

[Humblefish]

Anyone have suggestions on QT-Ing a blue spot ray. She is in our Reef system at our store and I wanna put her in our display. How do you do a sting ray ?

Chloroquine is ideal to use on rays & sharks.

 

[Heavymman]

@Humblefish I was just curious if you still use this as your Quarantine method? Just recently, I bought a pair of clowns and a fire fish for my QT. Everyone looked good and was eating for the first two days. As soon as I started with the Prazi, I believe my firefish was succumbed by Velvet. Really disappointing. I guess my question is from now on, I will be doing a freshwater dip followed by a chemical bath before the fish enter the QT. Also, I will have the QT with medication levels of copper ready for them and keep them there for 30 days. Then observe. Should I still do the rounds of Prazi, maybe after?

 

[Humblefish]

@Humblefish I was just curious if you still use this as your Quarantine method? Just recently, I bought a pair of clowns and a fire fish for my QT. Everyone looked good and was eating for the first two days. As soon as I started with the Prazi, I believe my firefish was succumbed by Velvet. Really disappointing. I guess my question is from now on, I will be doing a freshwater dip followed by a chemical bath before the fish enter the QT. Also, I will have the QT with medication levels of copper ready for them and keep them there for 30 days. Then observe. Should I still do the rounds of Prazi, maybe after?

Since the velvet epidemic, I've adopted a different QT protocol. I treat all incoming fish with either Chloroquine or chelated copper for 14 days, and then transfer to another QT for additional treatment (e.g. Prazipro, food soaking GC + Focus for intestinal issues, antibiotics if needed, etc.) The 14 day method works because you are transferring the fish away from any unhatched tomonts (left behind in QT#1), and by dosing CP or copper first you are prophylactically addressing the most virulent disease you are likely to face: Marine Velvet Disease.

EDIT: I have been experimenting with combining CP (or copper) + powder praziquantel + powder metronidazole (i.e. API General Cure) in QT#1 before transferring. And that strategy is working out pretty well.

 

[Heavymman]

Since the velvet epidemic, I've adopted a different QT protocol. I treat all incoming fish with either Chloroquine or chelated copper for 14 days, and then transfer to another QT for additional treatment (e.g. Prazipro, food soaking GC + Focus for intestinal issues, antibiotics if needed, etc.) The 14 day method works because you are transferring the fish away from any unhatched tomonts (left behind in QT#1), and by dosing CP or copper first you are prophylactically addressing the most virulent disease you are likely to face: Marine Velvet Disease.

EDIT: I have been experimenting with combining CP (or copper) + powder praziquantel + powder metronidazole (i.e. API General Cure) in QT#1 before transferring. And that strategy is working out pretty well.

Thanks, I am kind of doing an emergency process here as one of the fish I just introduced had Velvet. My LFS only had Ruby Reef Rally, what would you recommend the concentration be in for the bath?

 

[Humblefish]

My LFS only had Ruby Reef Rally, what would you recommend the concentration be in for the bath?

1 teaspoon per gallon

 

[Heavymman]

1 teaspoon per gallon

Thanks, wish me luck!!!

I couldn't find powder copper either, so I will have to dose cupramine (With Furan-2). I will get the tank to .5 prior to getting the newly dipped fish. My wife went back to the LFS today and the whole tank where we had got the Purple Firefish was wiped out.... They wanted a sample of MY water in order to get a new fish. I want to treat one of them back to health if I can, so lets see how it works out.

 

[Victoria M]

Since the velvet epidemic, I've adopted a different QT protocol. I treat all incoming fish with either Chloroquine or chelated copper for 14 days, and then transfer to another QT for additional treatment (e.g. Prazipro, food soaking GC + Focus for intestinal issues, antibiotics if needed, etc.) The 14 day method works because you are transferring the fish away from any unhatched tomonts (left behind in QT#1), and by dosing CP or copper first you are prophylactically addressing the most virulent disease you are likely to face: Marine Velvet Disease.

EDIT: I have been experimenting with combining CP (or copper) + powder praziquantel + powder metronidazole (i.e. API General Cure) in QT#1 before transferring. And that strategy is working out pretty well.

Meaning the supply chain is so badly polluted with disease right now, that it is hard for new hobbyists to succeed. (Even if they QT.)

5-10 years ago ich & flukes were the norm, and both diseases were easily treatable with copper & Prazipro (respectively).

Nowadays, you are more likely to encounter Marine Velvet Disease & Gram Negative Bacterial Infections - and those are much more virulent diseases.

I have fish in a QT with treatment started. I started with
Azure Damselfish, Captive-Bred(Chrysiptera hemicyanea) 4
Ocellaris Clownfish, Captive-Bred(Amphiprion ocellaris ) 2
Yellow Pyramid Butterflyfish(Hemitaurichthys polylepis) 1
Flame Hawkfish(Neocirrhites armatus) 1

I lost one asure damselfish, and one clownfish. Both were very small. I think think the butterfly fish is the carrier, and I know I will never order captive bred and wild caught to QT together. Unless I am faulty in my thinking here, let me know what you folks think.

I did one day of prazipro and then added Seachems copper to the tank. I brought it up to full dosage today. The last poor little nemo looks pathetic and the Butterfly does not look much better. The hawk fish is hiding, but from what I can see looks ok.

 

[User]

Since the velvet epidemic, I've adopted a different QT protocol. I treat all incoming fish with either Chloroquine or chelated copper for 14 days, and then transfer to another QT for additional treatment (e.g. Prazipro, food soaking GC + Focus for intestinal issues, antibiotics if needed, etc.) The 14 day method works because you are transferring the fish away from any unhatched tomonts (left behind in QT#1), and by dosing CP or copper first you are prophylactically addressing the most virulent disease you are likely to face: Marine Velvet Disease.

EDIT: I have been experimenting with combining CP (or copper) + powder praziquantel + powder metronidazole (i.e. API General Cure) in QT#1 before transferring. And that strategy is working out pretty well.

Just so I’m clear- you no longer perform TTM for ich, but do this new protocol for velvet exclusively?

Is it your opinion then that ich has become so much less of a problem that TTM is not as efficient (in terms of space, time, resources) compared to the new velvet focused method?

I ask because I’m just about to start stocking my 180 and have geared up for doing TTM+prazipro + 4 weeks observation. It would be great to know if someone with your experience would recommend foregoing this method in favour of the new one, before I start my QT process.

Thanks so much!

Edit- first round will be two small ocellaris clowns and a Randall’s goby. Pistol shrimp in s separate invert QT. Second round is planned to be a very small yellow tang and a very small purple tang.

Third round will be a school of 7-11 dispar anthias. No idea how to tackle this one though.

 

[Humblefish]

Just so I’m clear- you no longer perform TTM for ich, but do this new protocol for velvet exclusively?

Is it your opinion then that ich has become so much less of a problem that TTM is not as efficient (in terms of space, time, resources) compared to the new velvet focused method?

I ask because I’m just about to start stocking my 180 and have geared up for doing TTM+prazipro + 4 weeks observation. It would be great to know if someone with your experience would recommend foregoing this method in favour of the new one, before I start my QT process.

Thanks so much!

Treating with copper or Chloroquine for 14 days, and then transferring the fish to another QT treats both velvet and ich. The downside, of course, is having to use a chemical when TTM was a non-chemical solution. But the problem with TTM is it does not address velvet and velvet is everywhere right now.

To be clear, I am not overly fond of using medications/chemicals on fish. I realize these usually come with harmful side effects, and sometimes these linger even after the fish is out of medication. But using meds is the lesser of two evils when faced with such virulent diseases in a closed environment.

 

[miroch]

Can velvet stay in a fish's system like ich or is it so harmful that a fish will die untreated rather soon. If you've had a fish for more than..let's say.. 2 years, is it safe to say it does not have velvet?
If we are confident that velvet is not present, would you still use TTM as your top choice?

 

[User]

Treating with copper or Chloroquine for 14 days, and then transferring the fish to another QT treats both velvet and ich. The downside, of course, is having to use a chemical when TTM was a non-chemical solution. But the problem with TTM is it does not address velvet and velvet is everywhere right now.

To be clear, I am not overly fond of using medications/chemicals on fish. I realize these usually come with harmful side effects, and sometimes these linger even after the fish is out of medication. But using meds is the lesser of two evils when faced with such virulent diseases in a closed environment.

Thanks for such a detailed and quick reply. Agree that when velvet is involved, meds are the lesser of the evils.

I’ll amend my protocol and order the necessary supplies. I know I won’t be able to get CP- my vet was NOT receptive to my inquiries- but copper is easy to get on amazon. And the Hanna checker makes dosing a breeze.

So what do you do for ammonia control in a copper tank? I haven’t looked into that - Hob filter?

Thanks again!

 

[Gareth elliott]

Can velvet stay in a fish's system like ich or is it so harmful that a fish will die untreated rather soon. If you've had a fish for more than..let's say.. 2 years, is it safe to say it does not have velvet?
If we are confident that velvet is not present, would you still use TTM as your top choice?

Even with velvet there will be individuals that can survive. This will be dependent on both the fish and the system it is kept in. Even in suboptimal conditions any vector will have a percentage of individuals that survive, 5% of untreated infected humans will survive ebola.

With single host parasites, survival timelines is not useful in determining if a particular parasite is not present. An individual may not be infected at x day but if in the same system where a parasite is present in low numbers it could be infected y day and uninfected again at z day.

 

[Humblefish]

Can velvet stay in a fish's system like ich or is it so harmful that a fish will die untreated rather soon. If you've had a fish for more than..let's say.. 2 years, is it safe to say it does not have velvet?
If we are confident that velvet is not present, would you still use TTM as your top choice?

Velvet is less "manageable" in a closed system than ich, but it is still possible. Usually one or more of the following factors have to be in the fish's favor:

1. Large volume of water (i.e. big tank) to dilute the number of free swimming parasites.
2. Using an oversized UV, diatom filter, ozone, etc. to eliminate free swimmers in the water.
3. Proper nutrition to boost your fishes' natural immune systems.
4. Fish with a thick mucous coat (e.g. wrasses, clownfish, dragonets) have an advantage over those species with a thin slime coat for protection.

I'm sure there are other factors I am forgetting. It is also worth noting that sometimes the above strategies work and sometimes they do not. But once velvet is in a system, it is a safe assumption that at least some of the fish will always be carriers until you go fallow & treat. And yes, if it weren't for velvet I would go back to doing TTM.

So what do you do for ammonia control in a copper tank? I haven’t looked into that - Hob filter?

I currently use the Seachem Tidal HOB on all of my QTs. It comes with a sponge and Seachem Matrix bio-media for housing nitrifying bacteria. However, nothing wrong with using an Aquaclear or Bio-wheel HOB for QT either.

 

[User]

Thanks for the info. Just ordered an aquaclear 50 for the 20g long

Recommend prophylactic ruby reef rally on incoming clowns/damsels or only if I suspect brooklynella?

 

[Humblefish]

Recommend prophylactic ruby reef rally on incoming clowns/damsels or only if I suspect brooklynella?

A 90 min bath (in a bucket) using Rally won't hurt anything. I just wouldn't dose it in the QT itself.

 

[User]

Great, thanks.

 

[User]

So- the procedure is to add fish to QT with hob and extra powerhead, ramp up copper over 6 days, then do 14 days at therapeutic level of 1.5mg/g, move to new QT tank with therapeutic copper levels (omit copper in second tank or continue for total of 28 days in therapeutic copper?) and do prazipro/ antibiotics if required for 14 days. Add carbon to remove Cu and meds. Then a couple weeks observation before DT?

Is that right?

 

[HotRocks]

So- the procedure is to add fish to QT with hob and extra powerhead, ramp up copper over 6 days, then do 14 days at therapeutic level of 1.5mg/g, move to new QT tank with therapeutic copper levels (omit copper in second tank or continue for total of 28 days in therapeutic copper?) and do prazipro/ antibiotics if required for 14 days. Add carbon to remove Cu and meds. Then a couple weeks observation before DT?

Is that right?

No copper needed for 2nd tank. So long as first tank was fully therapeutic for the 14 days.

If using prazi and or antibiotics in tank two that is fine. Then 14 day med free observation takes place In tank two.