How would you feel if I tore it all down?

[WWIII]

Glad to hear this beautiful setup is on it's way to full glory! How long ago did you replace the rock @revhtree ? So glad to see some positive news on the dinos!

 

[revhtree]

Tank today..

 

[revhtree]

I'll get the whites on so you can really see. It's cleaner today than yesterday.

 

[Brew12]

I'll get the whites on so you can really see. It's cleaner today than yesterday.

So when are you going to tear it down to redo your scape?

 

[revhtree]

So when are you going to tear it down to redo your scape?

Lol what are you saying? I just have to tweak it. It looks better in person.

 

[joshporksandwich]

Tank today..

 

[rushbattle]

Assuming this question is directed at someone similar to my position on vibrant. Since vibrant wasn't introduced till mid to late 2016, are you insinuating that the hobby was unable to maintain a reef prior to it's release?

Your straw man won't draw me in. I obviously said nothing of the sort. No need to argue unrelated questions.

Edit: Rereading your assertion that I think there wasn't a hobby until Vibrant was released is so extreme that it's offensive. I asked a simple set of questions. You just mocked me instead of trying to answer anything.

 

[rushbattle]

I'm a fan of Vibrant (obviously) but let's not make Vibrant something it isn't. Vibrant is a powerful tool, it is not a methodology for running an reef tank. Using Vibrant can help us when things get out of line, and help the tank look a little better between cleanings. It also gives us a little buffer in case our system gets near the edge of an undesirable limit. It isn't a replacement for nutrient export, water chemistry stability, and other forms of good husbandry.

Once again, that's not what I was arguing. It was others that claimed that "good husbandry" controlled algae, and I said nothing about Vibrant being a methodology. I was asking what those husbandry methods were that controlled algae. It seems to me that only predation (herbivores/bacteria) controls most algae, if corals are to thrive in the same environment. Plenty of easily understood research supports that statement. I was looking for more information about the methodologies referenced above.

 

[Brew12]

Lol what are you saying? I just have to tweak it. It looks better in person.

But you posted pictures of it! I'm not sure that I have seen you post pictures of it looking the same 2 weeks in a row!

 

[reeferfoxx]

Your straw man won't draw me in. I obviously said nothing of the sort. No need to argue unrelated questions.

Edit: Rereading your assertion that I think there wasn't a hobby until Vibrant was released is so extreme that it's offensive. I asked a simple set of questions. You just mocked me instead of trying to answer anything.

Ok. I think the sensitivity level needs to be lowered some. Let's get a grip here.

Your question was very broad and didn't exactly relate to this dinoflagellate thread. Asking what our "brilliant methodology" consists of sounds slightly condescending in of itself.

Look you don't need everyone's tank parameters, setup, datasheets(?), Step by step setup process or date of birth. It's real simple. The brilliant methodology to limiting algae growth. The secret behind not relying on bottle bacteria to fix your issue can be found in my book purchased on my website for 3 easy payments of.... LOL just kidding.

The key to limiting algae growth is to not over feed and to have sufficient nutrient export.

 

[rushbattle]

Ok. I think the sensitivity level needs to be lowered some. Let's get a grip here.

Your question was very broad and didn't exactly relate to this dinoflagellate thread. Asking what our "brilliant methodology" consists of sounds slightly condescending in of itself.

Look you don't need everyone's tank parameters, setup, datasheets(?), Step by step setup process or date of birth. It's real simple. The brilliant methodology to limiting algae growth. The secret behind not relying on bottle bacteria to fix your issue can be found in my book purchased on my website for 3 easy payments of.... LOL just kidding.

The key to limiting algae growth is to not over feed and to have sufficient nutrient export.

Algae grows incredibly well in pristine (oligotrophic) areas of reef, overtaking coral easily, if predators (herbivores) are excluded. Your approach makes little sense related to algae control. The following is just one example of many studies that have been done that clearly show algae is controlled through herbivory.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3377479/

 

[Brew12]

Algae grows incredibly well in pristine (oligotrophic) areas of reef, overtaking coral easily, if predators (herbivores) are excluded. Your approach makes little sense related to algae control. The following is just one example of many studies that have been done that clearly show algae is controlled through herbivory.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3377479/

This is part of the story, and an important one.

Total phytoplankton and algal growth in the ocean is actually carbon limited. Zinc is also believed to play a role. We can use this to our advantage, too.

http://www.int-res.com/articles/meps/109/m109p083.pdf

 

[rushbattle]

This is part of the story, and an important one.

Total phytoplankton and algal growth in the ocean is actually carbon limited. Zinc is also believed to play a role. We can use this to our advantage, too.

http://www.int-res.com/articles/meps/109/m109p083.pdf

So I typed up a response to this discussing algal growth rates vs control and how that is different, but it seems like there is contention about what the thread is discussing. Rev, wanting ad sales, probably just enjoys disscussion, but I would be interested in discussing one subject at a time. If y'all are interested I will post my response about nutrients, growth rates and controls, but otherwise I will keep it to myself. So what are we discussing here?

 

[Brew12]

So I typed up a response to this discussing algal growth rates vs control and how that is different, but it seems like there is contention about what the thread is discussing. Rev, wanting ad sales, probably just enjoys disscussion, but I would be interested in discussing one subject at a time. If y'all are interested I will post my response about nutrients, growth rates and controls, but otherwise I will keep it to myself. So what are we discussing here?

Initially, we were discussing if Rev should tear his tank down and start completely over.

That morphed into a discussion on how to control dinoflagellates. You really can't have a discussion on controlling dinoflagellates without getting into topics along the lines of algae and bacterial growth and limitations. I would say that this is still within an appropriate topic. As long as things are kept respectful this is an appropriate place. If you would like to start a new thread that could also attract new eyes, no problems there either. Just put a link to it here so those who want can follow along.

I really dislike discussing the commercial side of things, but I will do so quickly. Does Rev want ad sales? Yes. Without add sales,and sponsoring vendors/members this forum ceases to exist. No one is getting rich off of this forum. Raising revenue is a necessary thing but I have never seen any decisions made to sacrifice the integrity of R2R in an effort to raise revenue. I hope that is enough said on this topic. If not, please message me privately.

 

[Twolabs443]

But in all seriousness passionate, educated and informative discussions are one of the things I like most about this site. You don't get passionate discussion without folks that are passionate about what they are talking about, which leads to a great exchange of info and ideas. Sometimes things can seem to get a bit heated like any discussion where folks have differing views, but after following through this whole thread I think everyone has for the most part been courteous to one another, if if somewhat snarky occasionally.

 

[reeferfoxx]

Personally I think this discussion needs to move to it's own thread. There we can discuss the details between limiting and controlling as well as ocean vs artificial.

 

[revhtree]

Personally I think this discussion needs to move to it's own thread. There we can discuss the details between limiting and controlling as well as ocean vs artificial.

I value each one of you and your opinion in a literal and physical sense.

That being said you are welcome here in this thread but I would also like to see the different subjects have their own thread as well for search purposes, etc.

 

[reeferfoxx]

Agreed. There are many many thread pertaining to this very subject. It would be a redundant thread but maybe some new eyes can enlighten a better understanding to the matter. Unfortunately, I'm still young in age and I work my butt off for a living. I don't have time to read through pages of provided links to articles that may or may not offer insight to subjectively blown out of proportion misunderstanding to whats being said. If we aren't cool with that, if the battle needs to continue, give me 24 hours to respond.

 

[reeferfoxx]

Algae grows incredibly well in pristine (oligotrophic) areas of reef, overtaking coral easily, if predators (herbivores) are excluded. Your approach makes little sense related to algae control. The following is just one example of many studies that have been done that clearly show algae is controlled through herbivory.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3377479/

Let's exclude vibrant from this statement as they don't mix.

The concept of a "pristine ecosystem" is subjective. Deep reefs, like any other ecosystem, are changing all the time. They start with pioneer species and end in a climax state, but even the climax state is variable, depending on the species involved and physical conditions like temperature, salinity, current, nutrients. Shallow Reefs see water run offs and other non-human related interventions.

My statement about limiting food pertains to artificial nano reef systems that reside in our homes where only human interaction determines it's fate. Limit food you limit algae growth(not control). Adding herbivores such as snails and other inverts always risk dying and adding more nutrients. That doesn't mean I wouldnt suggest adding snails or inverts. Some of our tanks are too small or don't contain enough algae requirements to sustain herbivore fish without proper supplementation. Therefore nutrient export is the next step in control and limiting factors.

 

[taricha]

Just to be clear, Vibrant isn't a harsh chemical, it is a bacteria blend. ...I can tell you that film algae will still grow, just not as quickly. If using once a week or less, Chaeto can still thrive. Because of this, I would be careful to not lump it in with most algaecides on the market.

Vibrant is not a magic potion that eliminates the need for biodiversity or good husbandry. I feel it is a very useful tool to help control nuisance algae and dino's while the tank matures and the reefer improves their caretaking ability.

just wanted to respond to this.
This is a very enlightened approach to vibrant and tank husbandry. If the hobbyist can find some dose and frequency that pushes dinos back and leaves a green algae community in place, then that will lead to stability and a decreased reliance on vibrant.