Hydros Maven is Delayed

[748S911]

Millions? Really?

How did ABC come up with the millions for their "facility + labor + supply lines"? Do you really think there are so many auto testers sold that it requires that large of an operation to mix some chemicals together? Loads of companies in this industry mix in their basement or started that way. ABC just ripped off someone else's work. They didn't invest "millions" to create reagents

 

[Hooz]

Simplest explanation (Occam's Razor) is typically the correct one.

They appear to have announced and pre-launched a product without really ever having a product. They are now struggling to deliver what they marketed because they didn't engineer it to begin with - it was more concept than engineered reality.

I feel like they announced it because Neptune was launching the Trident NP (same timeframe) and they wanted to let Hydros users know "something was coming" to keep them from jumping ship. Through beta testing, they realized that there were some things that needed to be tweaked... It happens... and they realized their original target date was unrealistic.

I'm all for wanting to release the "best" product you can release. At some point I'm sure the "feature creep" started and delayed things even more. I'm still holding out for the Maven, though, as I'm sure it will work out of the box and the first adopters won't be beta testing for them and returning/replacing units (a la Trident NP) for months after the release.

With 4 controllers so far, I'm fully invested in Hydros. I will happily wait for something that works.

 

[WhatCouldGoWrong71]

It sounds like, based on the Pre-RAP podcast that they delayed it so they could create OS that would prevent a situation like ABC stepping on the Tridents subscription plan. The profit isn’t in the hardware but the subscription of consumables. I’d be looking to protect my investment and future ROI as well.

 

[Sm1nts2escape]

Get rid of the mandatory barcode scanning bs on the reagents and let the people chose. As far as I am concerned you announced a product instead of a prototype to thwart competition and then give us this propaganda video with no release date. I am just now getting ready to buy a controller but I see the game. All the excuses, lies and barcode bs is turning me off.

 

[EliMelly]

There is a legal grey area here, while they can argue the locked eco system is due to a proprietary technology, if this is standard chemistry and colorimetry, then they may actually be violating the law if they prevent third party consumables.

One way or the other, I don’t care how accurate the device is, I will not be giving them a penny of my money as a matter of principle.

Somebody mentioned Hanna checkers… there is nothing regarding those devices preventing you from using third party reagents.

Why not out of principle? Am I missing something that happened?

 

[BeanAnimal]

Why not out of principle? Am I missing something that happened?

I have no issue with CoralVue selling their reagent at whatever price they want, running a subscription, or keeping the formula private as much as they can. That's their business model, and I get it. These devices aren’t going to sell enough units to be profitable on hardware alone anyway.

What I won't do is purchase a device that locks you into their consumables and leaves you with a boat anchor if you don't comply. Full stop.

And unless they can prove the chemistry is genuinely novel and proprietary (it’s certainly not), building in a lockout to prevent 3rd party consumables is almost certainly illegal under existing consumer protection laws. See the precedents set with the lawsuits lost by printer and copier OEMS regarding toner and ink, Keurig and their K-Cup, etc. The list is miles long. You can't use "DRM" type tech to prevent 3rd party consumables and you can't void warranty based on them.

 

[EliMelly]

I have no issue with CoralVue selling their reagent at whatever price they want, running a subscription, or keeping the formula private as much as they can. That's their business model, and I get it. These devices aren’t going to sell enough units to be profitable on hardware alone anyway.

What I won't do is purchase a device that locks you into their consumables and leaves you with a boat anchor if you don't comply. Full stop.

And unless they can prove the chemistry is genuinely novel and proprietary (it’s certainly not), building in a lockout to prevent 3rd party consumables is almost certainly illegal under existing consumer protection laws. See the precedents set with the lawsuits lost by printer and copier OEMS regarding toner and ink, Keurig and their K-Cup, etc. The list is miles long. You can't use "DRM" type tech to prevent 3rd party consumables and you can't void warranty based on them.

What do you mean lock you into their consumables? Sorry I am new to this thread and would like to get caught up.

 

[RoanokeReef]

What do you mean lock you into their consumables? Sorry I am new to this thread and would like to get caught up.

Their reagents are coming with a barcode you must scan in for it to work.

 

[EliMelly]

Their reagents are coming with a barcode you must scan in for it to work.

Oh jeez why all the extra work? What is the difference that this makes ? You can’t use another companies reagents basically? So even if they make something you can’t utilize it?

 

[BeanAnimal]

Oh jeez why all the extra work? What is the difference that this makes ? You can’t use another companies reagents basically? So even if they make something you can’t utilize it?

That is what it appears to mean -- and if so, is rather short sighted and unfortunate, any way that wish to spin it.

The irony would be knowing how much the tech to do this has added to the delay.

1 - algorithm to generate and hash serialized IDs into secure one-per bar codes.
2 - the added cost to print said serialized, hashed bar codes unique to each sale
2a- the cost to paste these on to the retail packages
3 - the code to suck these into their backend.
4 - the code to expose these to their cloud admin
5 - the code to tie these to a user device and enforce their "DRM"
6 - the code to track usage, reminders, firmware intregartion, etc.
7 - somebody on their side to manage all of this dev and administrative crap..
etc...
none of this is trivial --

No wonder the product is late to launch.

The more I understand about "Hydros" the less I am inclined to ever have anything to do with it. But maybe I am on an island.

 

[BZOFIQ]

When I first saw the device and RAP NY, I said to myself, love it.

Simple, not forced to run X tests per day, all in one tester.

Slowly (and now nearly 6 months behind) the feature set is changing and my mind is saying: oh heck no! CV had a good idea on how to take share away from Neptune but with this barcode nonsense I'm starting to think there is no point in changing - they are all the same.

 

[PaDDy Killer]

When I first saw the device and RAP NY, I said to myself, love it.

Simple, not forced to run X tests per day, all in one tester.

Slowly (and now nearly 6 months behind) the feature set is changing and my mind is saying: oh heck no! CV had a good idea on how to take share away from Neptune but with this barcode nonsense I'm starting to think there is no point in changing - they are all the same.

I agree. I loved the design and features, but what a disappointment with the reagents. That is taking some man power like BeanAnimal broke down to put together. I would rather they spend that time and cash beta testing the machine.

 

[kingranch2003]

And it will shorten your life thus limiting a long life time of worry....:dizzy-face: Hahaha!
Seriously bacon is very unhealthy no matter how good you think it tastes....

LL! You can put it on salad so bacon is a veggie!

 

[EliMelly]

That is what it appears to mean -- and if so, is rather short sighted and unfortunate, any way that wish to spin it.

The irony would be knowing how much the tech to do this has added to the delay.

1 - algorithm to generate and hash serialized IDs into secure one-per bar codes.
2 - the added cost to print said serialized, hashed bar codes unique to each sale
2a- the cost to paste these on to the retail packages
3 - the code to suck these into their backend.
4 - the code to expose these to their cloud admin
5 - the code to tie these to a user device and enforce their "DRM"
6 - the code to track usage, reminders, firmware intregartion, etc.
7 - somebody on their side to manage all of this dev and administrative crap..
etc...
none of this is trivial --

No wonder the product is late to launch.

The more I understand about "Hydros" the less I am inclined to ever have anything to do with it. But maybe I am on an island.

That makes sense , I was going to wait it out for the mayven because I heard Neptune had issues. But based on this I won’t be going with any. I’ll just have my assistant test my tank with Hannah checkers.

Thanks for your detailed break down. That’s really irritating because I’ve been waiting a while for this.

 

[areefer01]

Thanks for your detailed break down. That’s really irritating because I’ve been waiting a while for this.

Why would you be irritated waiting for this or any other product? Odd thing to loose sleep over.

 

[areefer01]

Slowly (and now nearly 6 months behind) the feature set is changing and my mind is saying: oh heck no! CV had a good idea on how to take share away from Neptune

They are taking a bit of money from Neptune by reselling ABC reagents.

 

[EliMelly]

Why would you be irritated waiting for this or any other product? Odd thing to loose sleep over.

When you push off buying one product ie the Neptune because another brand is creating something new but they keep pushing it off it’s a bit irritating.

I’m definitely not losing sleep over this lol

 

[BeanAnimal]

Peeling back a layer, I don't want anything to do with a product that must "check in" or "be registered" with a cloud service to work anyway.

GHL has pushed the envelope with their dashboard, but the devices are still useable with no network connection at all. I don't think you an run Hydros fully off-grid one way or the other. Deal breaker. Add mandatory "check in" at some interval and that is a non-starter. The reagent "DRM" isn't even a consideration given the other two prior issues. I was looking forward to the Maven, but honestly, have moved on no matter how well it works. They very honestly could not give me a device to use for free at this point -- silly or not, I am trying to get away from cloud tied DRM in every way that I can.

 

[areefer01]

When you push off buying one product ie the Neptune because another brand is creating something new but they keep pushing it off it’s a bit irritating.

They are new to automated testing so it was bound to happen. Nothing to be irritated at. I get irritated at grasshoppers. I spray and attract birds that eat them but my surrounding neighbors do not. So it is a constant battle. That is irritating (to me).

I’m definitely not losing sleep over this lol

Fair enough and good to hear.

 

[EliMelly]

Peeling back a layer, I don't want anything to do with a product that must "check in" or "be registered" with a cloud service to work anyway.

GHL has pushed the envelope with their dashboard, but the devices are still useable with no network connection at all. I don't think you a run Hydros fully off-grid one way or the other. Deal breaker. Add mandatory "check in" at some interval and that is a non-starter. The reagent "DRM" isn't even a consideration given the other two prior issues. I was looking forward to the Maven, but honestly, have moved on no matter how well it works. They very honestly could not give me a device to use for free at this point -- silly or not, I am trying to get away from cloud tied DRM in every way that I can.

Mandatory check in meaning the bar codes?