Hydros Maven is Delayed

[mmorrison55]

Looks like focustronic made some improvements on their testing device, where it no longer uses the syringe and rotating vials.

https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/mast...HwrcmRBXURImBbLyeWa43uiFi4xWEOIzlXAc9PbWMs2pI
Will be interesting to see how this works and is reviewed. As a bonus, it you can also use third party reagents.

 

[beesnreefs]

Looks like focustronic made some improvements on their testing device, where it no longer uses the syringe and rotating vials.

https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/mast...HwrcmRBXURImBbLyeWa43uiFi4xWEOIzlXAc9PbWMs2pI
Will be interesting to see how this works and is reviewed. As a bonus, it you can also use third party reagents.

I'm waiting to see some honest reviews from folks who have used the MTE for a while....but if it works decently well and the Maven is still not released, I'll be going the Focustronic route

 

[JohnNYC8]

Looks like focustronic made some improvements on their testing device, where it no longer uses the syringe and rotating vials.

https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/mast...HwrcmRBXURImBbLyeWa43uiFi4xWEOIzlXAc9PbWMs2pI
Will be interesting to see how this works and is reviewed. As a bonus, it you can also use third party reagents.

The Maven looks slick but this solution looks like it’ll be hard to beat. Total cost of ownership will be an important metric to compare. Allowing for third party reagents might be the killer feature.

 

[rtparty]

I’m not sure I know a single “true hobbyist” that has had good long term success with the Mastertronic stuff

The few I know who are “happy” have a definite influenced bias

 

[vandy]

I’m not sure I know a single “true hobbyist” that has had good long term success with the Mastertronic stuff

The few I know who are “happy” have a definite influenced bias

Parker’s reef has been running one for the duration of his tank. Seems like he has nothing but good things to say about it in his videos

 

[JeffB418]

Looks like focustronic made some improvements on their testing device, where it no longer uses the syringe and rotating vials.

https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/mast...HwrcmRBXURImBbLyeWa43uiFi4xWEOIzlXAc9PbWMs2pI
Will be interesting to see how this works and is reviewed. As a bonus, it you can also use third party reagents.

Im torn as an engineer on the direction they went with for this device. I do like that each reagent has its own line/nozzle which will prevent cross contamination issues. I do like they got away from needles and actuators (what a f ing nightmare on the OG unit). I do like that they didn't go with 10+ dosing heads for each reagent since that would have been a nightmare but on the other hand I am skeptical about the main dosing assembly.

The new unit uses an integrated unit to provide "one at a time" dosing for 12 individual lines. it uses 1 stepper motor to drive a main dosing shaft, and then a second stepper drives a mechanical dosing line selector left or right to apply pressure on 1 of the 12 individual dosing lines to make contact with the main shaft. While its kind of genius, I am also very skeptical of this assembly since it seems entirely custom. Being so integrated concerns me from a reliability standpoint. If either motor goes down, the whole thing doesn't work. If one of the dosing lines splits and isn't caught soon enough, its possible corrosive reagents could foul up that entire assembly. Personally I think this assembly will work great up until it doesnt. Also replacing the hoses on that assembly (which is a regular maintenance task) doesnt seem to be too intuitive from first glance. Seems like you'd have to remove the entire assembly to replace any of the hoses. I may be wrong on that, but that's just from looking at the design.

Also i have some concerns about the 12 nozzle drip assembly and how consistent over time that will be. The unit needs no calibration for reagents because they are counting drops using an optical eye. But will reagent build up on those nozzles and throw off the consistency over time? I cant say for certain but its a concern.

Overall I think this machine will work well out of the box, I just worry about long term serviceability/reliability. I say this because its the same path I had with the OG mastertronic. First few months it was great. But as time went on, the unit required more and more maintenance to keep it accurate or even functioning. Clogged needles, crumbling septas, impossible to replace dosing heads (requiring full disassembly to get to some pumps), bad sensors, internal rusting from reagent vapors, etc.

Just my observations from what I see.

 

[rtparty]

Parker’s reef has been running one for the duration of his tank. Seems like he has nothing but good things to say about it in his videos

Did he buy the unit?

 

[vandy]

Did he buy the unit?

Just went back through his videos and I can't tell honestly. The first introduction was 3 years ago and it seems it was a genuine purchase, but he's had focustronic giveaways in the last year, so he's definitely sponsored now. Guess i'll lean to the side of saying he's a partial to the company

 

[mmorrison55]

Im torn as an engineer on the direction they went with for this device. I do like that each reagent has its own line/nozzle which will prevent cross contamination issues. I do like they got away from needles and actuators (what a f ing nightmare on the OG unit). I do like that they didn't go with 10+ dosing heads for each reagent since that would have been a nightmare but on the other hand I am skeptical about the main dosing assembly.

The new unit uses an integrated unit to provide "one at a time" dosing for 12 individual lines. it uses 1 stepper motor to drive a main dosing shaft, and then a second stepper drives a mechanical dosing line selector left or right to apply pressure on 1 of the 12 individual dosing lines to make contact with the main shaft. While its kind of genius, I am also very skeptical of this assembly since it seems entirely custom. Being so integrated concerns me from a reliability standpoint. If either motor goes down, the whole thing doesn't work. If one of the dosing lines splits and isn't caught soon enough, its possible corrosive reagents could foul up that entire assembly. Personally I think this assembly will work great up until it doesnt. Also replacing the hoses on that assembly (which is a regular maintenance task) doesnt seem to be too intuitive from first glance. Seems like you'd have to remove the entire assembly to replace any of the hoses. I may be wrong on that, but that's just from looking at the design.

Also i have some concerns about the 12 nozzle drip assembly and how consistent over time that will be. The unit needs no calibration for reagents because they are counting drops using an optical eye. But will reagent build up on those nozzles and throw off the consistency over time? I cant say for certain but its a concern.

Overall I think this machine will work well out of the box, I just worry about long term serviceability/reliability. I say this because its the same path I had with the OG mastertronic. First few months it was great. But as time went on, the unit required more and more maintenance to keep it accurate or even functioning. Clogged needles, crumbling septas, impossible to replace dosing heads (requiring full disassembly to get to some pumps), bad sensors, internal rusting from reagent vapors, etc.

Just my observations from what I see.

Thanks for the detailed engineers perspective. I was curious how it was using the 3rd party reagents to get accurate results. I thought they were like Hannah checkers that added x amount of reagent and then read the color. But a lot of the api type kits you add x amount, but then you have to count the drops as you mentioned just until the color changed and I could not work out how one of these machines could do that since the reagent amount could be different each test.

As you say, it will be interesting over time to see how it holds up. I waiting for the reviews to start coming out now that it’s here in the states. Ive not been able to find any reviews from oversees where they have had it for a few months now.

 

[mmorrison55]

Just went back through his videos and I can't tell honestly. The first introduction was 3 years ago and it seems it was a genuine purchase, but he's had focustronic giveaways in the last year, so he's definitely sponsored now. Guess i'll lean to the side of saying he's a partial to the company

Right, same here. I know also Devon from reef dudes has some mastertronic gear and he seems to have mostly good things to say, but again, im not sure if he bought with his own money or not.

 

[JohnNYC8]

I’m not sure I know a single “true hobbyist” that has had good long term success with the Mastertronic stuff

The few I know who are “happy” have a definite influenced bias

That’s good to know.

 

[JeffB418]

Im torn as an engineer on the direction they went with for this device. I do like that each reagent has its own line/nozzle which will prevent cross contamination issues. I do like they got away from needles and actuators (what a f ing nightmare on the OG unit). I do like that they didn't go with 10+ dosing heads for each reagent since that would have been a nightmare but on the other hand I am skeptical about the main dosing assembly.

The new unit uses an integrated unit to provide "one at a time" dosing for 12 individual lines. it uses 1 stepper motor to drive a main dosing shaft, and then a second stepper drives a mechanical dosing line selector left or right to apply pressure on 1 of the 12 individual dosing lines to make contact with the main shaft. While its kind of genius, I am also very skeptical of this assembly since it seems entirely custom. Being so integrated concerns me from a reliability standpoint. If either motor goes down, the whole thing doesn't work. If one of the dosing lines splits and isn't caught soon enough, its possible corrosive reagents could foul up that entire assembly. Personally I think this assembly will work great up until it doesnt. Also replacing the hoses on that assembly (which is a regular maintenance task) doesnt seem to be too intuitive from first glance. Seems like you'd have to remove the entire assembly to replace any of the hoses. I may be wrong on that, but that's just from looking at the design.

Also i have some concerns about the 12 nozzle drip assembly and how consistent over time that will be. The unit needs no calibration for reagents because they are counting drops using an optical eye. But will reagent build up on those nozzles and throw off the consistency over time? I cant say for certain but its a concern.

Overall I think this machine will work well out of the box, I just worry about long term serviceability/reliability. I say this because its the same path I had with the OG mastertronic. First few months it was great. But as time went on, the unit required more and more maintenance to keep it accurate or even functioning. Clogged needles, crumbling septas, impossible to replace dosing heads (requiring full disassembly to get to some pumps), bad sensors, internal rusting from reagent vapors, etc.

Just my observations from what I see.

Actually since posting this.... ive found some interesting things that back up some of my concerns.

per the manual, this device has some rigorous servicing intervals:

specifically my concerns about the multi-pipette getting build up and being inaccurate over time IS an issue. They require soaking that assembly EVERY 2 weeks. That is more frequently that i would have anticipated.

Also hose replacement on that integrated assembly is every 6 months. The user manual does not cover this process, and I still have concerns on how much work is involved with this process.

 

[mmorrison55]

Actually since posting this.... ive found some interesting things that back up some of my concerns.

per the manual, this device has some rigorous servicing intervals:

specifically my concerns about the multi-pipette getting build up and being inaccurate over time IS an issue. They require soaking that assembly EVERY 2 weeks. That is more frequently that i would have anticipated.

Also hose replacement on that integrated assembly is every 6 months. The user manual does not cover this process, and I still have concerns on how much work is involved with this process.

This would be a good thing to comment on Parker’s reef and see what Sam has done as far as maintaining., and may be ask him to do a video on the upkeep.

 

[tjiddy]

I’m not sure I know a single “true hobbyist” that has had good long term success with the Mastertronic stuff

The few I know who are “happy” have a definite influenced bias

Wholeheartedly agree. I splurged for a Mastertronic and after a few months was back to using trident and manual testing.

 

[kiwiSWE]

Did he buy the unit?

I been told that he bought it with own money

 

[static416]

I decided to pull the trigger and buy the Mastertronic Essential.

Overall I'm fairly happy with it after a week, but the sofware is horrible. Hydros software isn't the greatest, but far far superior to Focustronic's software. It's barely usable at times on Android especially.

That said, the hardware seems good. And the way it's designed makes me unsurprised that Hydros are having trouble getting their to work reliably.

After seeing the internals of the Mastertronic Essential, I'm not at all optimistic that the latest Maven design will be workable long term. It's possible they've made more changes they haven't disclosed, but you can see why it's complicated to deal with so many dosers, reagents, cross-contamination, and other issues.

Partial review here: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/first-focustronic-mastertronic-ess-review.1117736/post-13840682

 

[braaap]

I decided to pull the trigger and buy the Mastertronic Essential.

Overall I'm fairly happy with it after a week, but the sofware is horrible. Hydros software isn't the greatest, but far far superior to Focustronic's software. It's barely usable at times on Android especially.

That said, the hardware seems good. And the way it's designed makes me unsurprised that Hydros are having trouble getting their to work reliably.

After seeing the internals of the Mastertronic Essential, I'm not at all optimistic that the latest Maven design will be workable long term. It's possible they've made more changes they haven't disclosed, but you can see why it's complicated to deal with so many dosers, reagents, cross-contamination, and other issues.

Partial review here: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/first-focustronic-mastertronic-ess-review.1117736/post-13840682

Hydros software/programming is atrocious. But their hardware is great.

I have the same concerns Jeff has. It is why I've held off on the Mastertronic Essential. Seems like a TON of work to maintain and parts are very specific.

 

[Sm1nts2escape]

I was waiting on the Maven but I am now going to get the Aquawiz instead. This release is a joke. If it ever comes out I will wait and see how the reviews go..

 

[Scoob]

Yeah it was announced in April 2024 and shown in may. So almost a year and a half

 

[Scottiemac]

Parker’s reef has been running one for the duration of his tank. Seems like he has nothing but good things to say about it in his videos

I don't know if it makes a difference, but Sam is in Australia. I believe their English speaking support for the world comes from there and Focustronic has a strong community in the area.

In the USA it is difficult to get support and from what I've seen, they're quite defensive about their products to American customers. It could be that Focustronic's support is better in Australia and therefore they have less to complain about.

I purchased the previous Mastertronic and had nothing but trouble with it. The accuracy was poor, and it was inconsistently poor. The Dosetronic almost destroyed my tank, dumping 1700ml of Magnesium in there in a day and a half.