Hyposalinity

Jay Hemdal · Apr 12, 2022

JCrowe86 said:
So this would be another method of ich eradication then? Not just management? I have a Fiiji Foxface that is showing a few spots and I'm pretty sure are ich. Everything else looks ok including my Kole and Yellow Tangs, at least for now. With my rockwork it would be much easier for me to remove coral to a QT tank to sit than it would be to get all the fish out to treat in QT.

IMO - hyposalinity, done properly serves as eradication for ich, not just management.
Jay

kboogie · Apr 13, 2022

I was in the process of bringing my FOWLR display down from 1.024 to 1.009. Life got in the way and I have been stuck at 1.016 for the last four weeks. Should I continue the process of bringing it down to 1.009 or has my window passed?

Jay Hemdal · Apr 14, 2022

kboogie said:
I was in the process of bringing my FOWLR display down from 1.024 to 1.009. Life got in the way and I have been stuck at 1.016 for the last four weeks. Should I continue the process of bringing it down to 1.009 or has my window passed?

Sorry, I saw your post yesterday but then forgot to reply!
IMO, stopping at 1.016 won’t harm the process, but it also isn’t low enough yet to show any control over flukes or ich. You should just continue down to 1.009.
Jay

kboogie · Apr 14, 2022

Excellent! I was concerned that being at 1.016 for so long would breed hyposalinity resistant ich.

scchase · Apr 14, 2022

Any idea how low to actually kill velvet? I don't believe the saltwater version is viable in pure freshwater last I checked but wondering how far down you would need to go to eradicate it for brackish fish that were infected.

Jay Hemdal · Apr 14, 2022

scchase said:
Any idea how low to actually kill velvet? I don't believe the saltwater version is viable in pure freshwater last I checked but wondering how far down you would need to go to eradicate it for brackish fish that were infected.

It depends on the strain of /velvet Amyloodinium. Noga says that the Gulf of Mexico strain can cause active disease down to 3 ppt, while the Red Sea strain stops reproducing at 12 ppt. I generally use copper to control velvet, not hypo.

Jay

Om84 · Apr 17, 2022

Jay Hemdal said:
Sorry, I saw your post yesterday but then forgot to reply!
IMO, stopping at 1.016 won’t harm the process, but it also isn’t low enough yet to show any control over flukes or ich. You should just continue down to 1.009.
Jay

but if you reduce salinity to 1.009 over many days (e.g. >1 week) would hyposalinity still be effective? Do you have to reduce over 2- 3 days to shock the parasites and kill them off? My issue is I have a large system and can’t make that much volume of RODI that quickly to replace. Will take me about a week.

Jay Hemdal · Apr 17, 2022

Om84 said:
but if you reduce salinity to 1.009 over many days (e.g. >1 week) would hyposalinity still be effective? Do you have to reduce over 2- 3 days to shock the parasites and kill them off? My issue is I have a large system and can’t make that much volume of RODI that quickly to replace. Will take me about a week.

No, the only risk in lowering the salinity slowly is that a disease can get started up during the drop. I prefer to do the full drop in three days, but as long as there isn’t active ich going on, taking longer isn’t an issue.

Jay

kboogie · May 12, 2022

So, I got my 300G FOWLR down to 1.009 from 1.016 over two days. I went on a business trip for a few days and checked today and discovered I'm at 1.010. I won't be able to get the 35 gallons needed to get to 1.009 until tomorrow or Saturday (slow RODI production) and busy work schedule. I had an active ich outbreak, PBT, Hippo Tang, Clown Trigger, and Cuban Hog have spots with the PBT being the newest fish, as a result, is completely covered and started the outbreak. The others have a few spots here and there. The PBT completed a four-week quarantine and the ich is from the display tank (previous ich management policy), he didn't bring it in. Will the five to six days at 1.010 vs 1.009 have a negative impact on my ich eradication desires? Specifically, am I likely to develop hyposalinity resistant ich? I should note I have 7 other fish who have no spots and no scratching.

Jay Hemdal · May 12, 2022

kboogie said:
So, I got my 300G FOWLR down to 1.009 from 1.016 over two days. I went on a business trip for a few days and checked today and discovered I'm at 1.010. I won't be able to get the 35 gallons needed to get to 1.009 until tomorrow or Saturday (slow RODI production) and busy work schedule. I had an active ich outbreak, PBT, Hippo Tang, Clown Trigger, and Cuban Hog have spots with the PBT being the newest fish, as a result, is completely covered and started the outbreak. The others have a few spots here and there. The PBT completed a four-week quarantine and the ich is from the display tank (previous ich management policy), he didn't bring it in. Will the five to six days at 1.010 vs 1.009 have a negative impact on my ich eradication desires? Specifically, am I likely to develop hyposalinity resistant ich? I should note I have 7 other fish who have no spots and no scratching.

There isn’t any risk of developing hypo resistant ich over that few generations. However, you may read that if you go above 1.009 even for a day, you must start the time over. I don’t agree with that.
I think that 30 to 35 days beyond the date you saw the last spot is a good length of time.
One thing that is VERY important is to be certain of the accuracy of your measuring device.
Jay

kboogie · May 12, 2022

Jay Hemdal said:
There isn’t any risk of developing hypo resistant ich over that few generations. However, you may read that if you go above 1.009 even for a day, you must start the time over. I don’t agree with that.
I think that 30 to 35 days beyond the date you saw the last spot is a good length of time.
One thing that is VERY important is to be certain of the accuracy of your measuring device.
Jay

Thank you!

Om84 · May 13, 2022

Jay Hemdal said:
There isn’t any risk of developing hypo resistant ich over that few generations. However, you may read that if you go above 1.009 even for a day, you must start the time over. I don’t agree with that.
I think that 30 to 35 days beyond the date you saw the last spot is a good length of time.
One thing that is VERY important is to be certain of the accuracy of your measuring device.
Jay

I used both a Hanna salinity probe (recalibrated) and a standard calibrated refractometer from BRS to keep salinity at 1.009. Are these devices good enough? Do you mean something more lab grade?

JerSaint · May 13, 2022

@Jay Hemdal I am so happy to have found this post! I have a few questions that I hope you can answer for me.
I am in the process of Hypo QT'ing a few new fish, I am at 30 days in at 1.009. I believe the last few spots cleared up about 5-6 days into hypo.
1) Does the day count start at the beginning of treatment (the day I reached 1.009), or on the last day of any visual signs of disease?
2) Is there any further treatment necessary after a 30-40 day stint in Hypo? Would a cycle of praziquantrel, chloroquine or cupramine/copper safe be beneficial?
3) For those looking to run Hypo in a display, is there a concern for loss of natural biological filtration throught the loss of beneficial bacteria? Ammonia spikes from the death of clean-up crew, bristle worms, asterina stars etc.?

Jay Hemdal · May 13, 2022

JerSaint said:
@Jay Hemdal I am so happy to have found this post! I have a few questions that I hope you can answer for me.
I am in the process of Hypo QT'ing a few new fish, I am at 30 days in at 1.009. I believe the last few spots cleared up about 5-6 days into hypo.
1) Does the day count start at the beginning of treatment (the day I reached 1.009), or on the last day of any visual signs of disease?
2) Is there any further treatment necessary after a 30-40 day stint in Hypo? Would a cycle of praziquantrel, chloroquine or cupramine/copper safe be beneficial?
3) For those looking to run Hypo in a display, is there a concern for loss of natural biological filtration throught the loss of beneficial bacteria? Ammonia spikes from the death of clean-up crew, bristle worms, asterina stars etc.?

I generally run hypo for 30 days beyond the date that I last saw spots, or 35 days if I'm treating flukes.

Hypo isn't effective against velvet, so if that is a worry, then copper would be better to use in the first place. Some flukes are not affected by hypo, so if you see flashing, then prazi would be warranted.

Hypo in well established displays isn't a real good idea, for the reason you state, it kills off so much of the algae and microfauna. The beneficial bacteria is actually unharmed by hypo, at least to the point of not seeing much difference in the tank.

Jay

LAReefer4Life · Aug 7, 2022

@Jay Hemdal Can fairy and flasher wrasses handle hypo salinity?

#fishmedic

Om84 · Aug 8, 2022

pathot984 said:
@Jay Hemdal Can fairy and flasher wrasses handle hypo salinity?

#fishmedic

Will love to see what Jay says.

I completed hyposalinity twice. I lost a McCoskers and Mystery wrasse who were very healthy before. My orange back fairy wrasse and exquisite wrasse did fine as did a Melanarus and Bird wrasse.

Jay Hemdal · Aug 8, 2022

pathot984 said:
@Jay Hemdal Can fairy and flasher wrasses handle hypo salinity?

#fishmedic

They can, but not as well as many other species. One worry that I have with them is that they are prone to Uronema, and that thrives at low salinities. Of course, many people also say they can't withstand copper. I think that stems mostly from the old days, when people were using copper/citric acid. I 've never had any issues with using coppersafe on them.

Jay

JerSaint · Aug 8, 2022

@Jay Hemdal thank you for this thread! It has been just over a month since I moved my first set of fish to the display from QT. It was my first attempt at a Hyposalinity QT and will be the standard moving forward! I acquired a pretty big selection of new fish that I was going to run through a standard observational qt period and I was gifted another fish, a few days into observation white spots appeared on a few of the fish and I rushed to find a possible treatment, ended up on this thread and had great success with it.

After the treatment, I was able to add Macuiceps, Desjardini, Scopas, and Purple Tangs, a Lyretail Anthias, and a Splendid Dottyback.

Jay Hemdal · Aug 8, 2022

JerSaint said:
@Jay Hemdal thank you for this thread! It has been just over a month since I moved my first set of fish to the display from QT. It was my first attempt at a Hyposalinity QT and will be the standard moving forward! I acquired a pretty big selection of new fish that I was going to run through a standard observational qt period and I was gifted another fish, a few days into observation white spots appeared on a few of the fish and I rushed to find a possible treatment, ended up on this thread and had great success with it.

After the treatment, I was able to add Macuiceps, Desjardini, Scopas, and Purple Tangs, a Lyretail Anthias, and a Splendid Dottyback.