Ich eradication vs. Ich management

[Elliott ll]

Sorry it took me a bit to get back to you. That is feasible, but imo it might cause more stress to the fish. In my case I just rode it out. Excellent water quality, nutrition, plus the addition of the UV helped me. Ultimately it is your call though.

My female triggerfish has passed away. I'm pretty upset about it because while she showed no signs of Ich, my male now has signs of Ich. After reading reviews from my LFS, I have come to learn there's dozens of other unhappy customers who purchased at the same time and all have Ich breakouts. The store is now fishless treating all their tanks...

So now I have a blue tang, purple tang, flame angel and male triggerfish that have confirmed ich, and of course... these are the fish I bought locally. All of my other fish are still somehow Ich free, but they are wrasses and clowns so that's probably why.

I am currently setting up a 30 gallon QT that I will keep on the other side of my living room. I will QT all new fish I get for about 44 days. 30 days of copper + deworm and then 14 days of observations. Once I have fully stocked my tank I will use it as a hospital tank and breeder tank. But I am wondering... if my fish already have Ich, is it even worth it to set up a QT tank?

Eventually I want to go fallow to remove all diseases, but I can't until I'm ready to upgrade tank sizes...

 

[Jay Hemdal]

My female triggerfish has passed away. I'm pretty upset about it because while she showed no signs of Ich, my male now has signs of Ich. After reading reviews from my LFS, I have come to learn there's dozens of other unhappy customers who purchased at the same time and all have Ich breakouts. The store is now fishless treating all their tanks...

So now I have a blue tang, purple tang, flame angel and male triggerfish that have confirmed ich, and of course... these are the fish I bought locally. All of my other fish are still somehow Ich free, but they are wrasses and clowns so that's probably why.

I am currently setting up a 30 gallon QT that I will keep on the other side of my living room. I will QT all new fish I get for about 44 days. 30 days of copper + deworm and then 14 days of observations. Once I have fully stocked my tank I will use it as a hospital tank and breeder tank. But I am wondering... if my fish already have Ich, is it even worth it to set up a QT tank?

Eventually I want to go fallow to remove all diseases, but I can't until I'm ready to upgrade tank sizes...

I’m worried that your female trigger died without signs of ich and now the male has clear signs - you may be dealing with two separate issues.

Below my name here (unless you are on your phone) or at the top of the fish disease section is a file that describes information helpful in solving problems - feel free to start up your own thread and we’ll try to figure things out.

Otherwise, yes you are correct, if you have fish in a system with ich and you don’t remove them for a fallow period, there is a chance that new fish, going through a full quarantine, may still break with ch once added to your tank.

Jay Hemdal

 

[Tamberav]

My female triggerfish has passed away. I'm pretty upset about it because while she showed no signs of Ich, my male now has signs of Ich. After reading reviews from my LFS, I have come to learn there's dozens of other unhappy customers who purchased at the same time and all have Ich breakouts. The store is now fishless treating all their tanks...

So now I have a blue tang, purple tang, flame angel and male triggerfish that have confirmed ich, and of course... these are the fish I bought locally. All of my other fish are still somehow Ich free, but they are wrasses and clowns so that's probably why.

I am currently setting up a 30 gallon QT that I will keep on the other side of my living room. I will QT all new fish I get for about 44 days. 30 days of copper + deworm and then 14 days of observations. Once I have fully stocked my tank I will use it as a hospital tank and breeder tank. But I am wondering... if my fish already have Ich, is it even worth it to set up a QT tank?

Eventually I want to go fallow to remove all diseases, but I can't until I'm ready to upgrade tank sizes...

To fallow a large amount of fish. I simply bought one of those huge rubber made plastic totes form the fleet store. Inexpensive for the large volume of water they hold and they can be moved around easily.

It is a fraction of the cost of the fish you listed.. if they die that is.

 

[Elliott ll]

To fallow a large amount of fish. I simply bought one of those huge rubber made plastic totes form the fleet store. Inexpensive for the large volume of water they hold and they can be moved around easily.

It is a fraction of the cost of the fish you listed.. if they die that is.

How many gallons should I target for the tote? If I am wanting to perform only 25% weekly water changes for all 11 fish?

Ace Hardware has a 100 gallon stock tank for $100?

 

[Tamberav]

How many gallons should I target for the tote? If I am wanting to perform only 25% weekly water changes for all 11 fish?

Ace Hardware has a 100 gallon stock tank for $100?

How big is your display? Depends on size of all fish but 100g should be enough. I would cycle it with biospira or such. I had a spare canister filter and bioballs so thats how I set mine up.

I have a 80g display and bought a 70g stock tank to house my fish. I also bought a lot of clay bricks and fake plants and some sand for the wrasses (just a pile in one corner/side). Tried to make it more natural hides. I put a big chunk of BRS netting over it since I had jumpers.

 

[Elliott ll]

How big is your display? Depends on size of all fish but 100g should be enough. I would cycle it with biospira or such. I had a spare canister filter and bioballs so thats how I set mine up.

I have a 80g display and bought a 70g stock tank to house my fish. I also bought a lot of clay bricks and fake plants and some sand for the wrasses (just a pile in one corner/side). Tried to make it more natural hides. I put a big chunk of BRS netting over it since I had jumpers.

My DT is 90 gal with a 10 gal sump. So would be exact same size tank, minus sand/rockwork/coral. My LFS has turbostart 900 I could get. I believe this is the most effective cycle starter. I can also hang the sock filters in the tank.

And then my next problem... Whats the best way to remove the ich from the fish? Copper Power? I have several wrasses.

 

[Tamberav]

My DT is 90 gal with a 10 gal sump. So would be exact same size tank, minus sand/rockwork/coral. My LFS has turbostart 900 I could get. I believe this is the most effective cycle starter. I can also hang the sock filters in the tank.

And then my next problem... Whats the best way to remove the ich from the fish? Copper Power? I have several wrasses.

Should work great then. You just need something in the form of media for the bacteria to cling to. Even really nice sized sponge filters can work. If you are going to treat with copper then I think you can even move filter media from the DT over since the copper would kill the parasites. I don't have experience with copper though. I did hybrid TTM and then into the 70g stock tank I had.

 

[cancun]

My female triggerfish has passed away. I'm pretty upset about it because while she showed no signs of Ich, my male now has signs of Ich. After reading reviews from my LFS, I have come to learn there's dozens of other unhappy customers who purchased at the same time and all have Ich breakouts. The store is now fishless treating all their tanks...

So now I have a blue tang, purple tang, flame angel and male triggerfish that have confirmed ich, and of course... these are the fish I bought locally. All of my other fish are still somehow Ich free, but they are wrasses and clowns so that's probably why.

I am currently setting up a 30 gallon QT that I will keep on the other side of my living room. I will QT all new fish I get for about 44 days. 30 days of copper + deworm and then 14 days of observations. Once I have fully stocked my tank I will use it as a hospital tank and breeder tank. But I am wondering... if my fish already have Ich, is it even worth it to set up a QT tank?

Eventually I want to go fallow to remove all diseases, but I can't until I'm ready to upgrade tank sizes...

I am very sorry about your female trigger. Ich management is tough I won't deny that. Some fish such as powder blue tangs for example can not imo be put into a ich management tank, in my experience they always are one of the first to succumb. Zebrasoma tangs in my experience are pretty tough as far as tangs go. I don't have experience with triggers though. It is a gamble for sure,

Be careful if you decide to QT wrasses and dwarf angels some are sensitive to copper and hyposalinity. You might want to read up on copper sensitive fish so as not to compound your issues and fish loss.

There are great stickies in the fish disease section that are worth a read. Good luck and please keep us posted!

 

[Elliott ll]

I am very sorry about your female trigger. Ich management is tough I won't deny that. Some fish such as powder blue tangs for example can not imo be put into a ich management tank, in my experience they always are one of the first to succumb. Zebrasoma tangs in my experience are pretty tough as far as tangs go. I don't have experience with triggers though. It is a gamble for sure,

Be careful if you decide to QT wrasses and dwarf angels some are sensitive to copper and hyposalinity. You might want to read up on copper sensitive fish so as not to compound your issues and fish loss.

There are great stickies in the fish disease section that are worth a read. Good luck and please keep us posted!

I found a 100 gallon stock tank for $100 at Ace Hardware that I may pull the trigger on. My hesitation comes with treating the wrasses, who have no signs of illness. I am doing more research on TTM. I may do TTM on my wrasses and copper power on all others. I'm worried about the TTM not being 100% effective though. Just a lot to mull over.

At the moment all fish seem to be responding well to my treatment of metroplex + focus with food, in addition to adding metroplex to the water column, doing an alteration of full dose and half dose every 24 hours instead of 48 hours.

The issue with metroplex's treatment of Ich is that Metroplex dosing every 48 hours gives too much time for Ich to return. Adding a half dosage every 24 hours I am hoping will not allow Ich to have any time off from the Metroplex. It seems no one has tried this on forums, however it is very hard to OD on Metroplex so at this point I am trying it... Will post frequent updates.

 

[Tamberav]

I did hybrid TTM (the one with peroxide) on all my fish and loved it as a treatment except it is a lot more work the copper. It’s much easier to do on a small number of fish.

 

[Elliott ll]

I did hybrid TTM (the one with peroxide) on all my fish and loved it as a treatment except it is a lot more work the copper. It’s much easier to do on a small number of fish.

I'm okay with more work. I am just trying to find the best combination of effective and safe. Hybrid TTM is something I need to research.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I'm okay with more work. I am just trying to find the best combination of effective and safe. Hybrid TTM is something I need to research.

Just to muddy the waters some more - I'm not a fan of TTM, even the hybrid version. It is rough on the fish to handle them that much and it is really designed only to control ich. It won't help with flukes much and even velvet may live in the fish's gills and escape being eradicated. If you are looking to control only ich and you have a good means to handle the fish without damaging them, and you can maintain low ammonia levels, then it can be something to consider....otherwise, I feel there are better/easier options.

Jay

 

[Elliott ll]

Just to muddy the waters some more - I'm not a fan of TTM, even the hybrid version. It is rough on the fish to handle them that much and it is really designed only to control ich. It won't help with flukes much and even velvet may live in the fish's gills and escape being eradicated. If you are looking to control only ich and you have a good means to handle the fish without damaging them, and you can maintain low ammonia levels, then it can be something to consider....otherwise, I feel there are better/easier options.

Jay

Okay understood. Would you advise to go ahead and proceed with Copper Power at 1.75ppm for 30 days?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Okay understood. Would you advise to go ahead and proceed with Copper Power at 1.75ppm for 30 days?

No - a full dose of copper power is around 2 to 2.1 ppm. If you go much below that, you'll won't have good eradication. Given the options of low copper versus TTM, I'd go with TTM.

jay

 

[Elliott ll]

No - a full dose of copper power is around 2 to 2.1 ppm. If you go much below that, you'll won't have good eradication. Given the options of low copper versus TTM, I'd go with TTM.

jay

Okay so even 2.0ppm Copper Power vs TTM you'd still pick TTM?

I am going to just rent (2) 50 gallon tanks for 76 days and then do TTM and Fallow from DT with all fish. Cost will only be about $100.

 

[Elliott ll]

No - a full dose of copper power is around 2 to 2.1 ppm. If you go much below that, you'll won't have good eradication. Given the options of low copper versus TTM, I'd go with TTM.

jay

I think I misunderstood since you said you werent a fan of TTM earlier. I believe you meant that I should increase to 2.0-2.1ppm with Copper Power and then that would be my best option?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I think I misunderstood since you said you werent a fan of TTM earlier. I believe you meant that I should increase to 2.0-2.1ppm with Copper Power and then that would be my best option?

Sorry - what I meant was, while I’m not a fan of TTM, I would pick that over a lower than normal copper treatment, as that has failed in so many cases.
Jay

 

[Elliott ll]

Sorry - what I meant was, while I’m not a fan of TTM, I would pick that over a lower than normal copper treatment, as that has failed in so many cases.
Jay

Got it. After realizing the amount of water I would need doing a (2) 50 gallon TTM, I'm going with Copper Power at 2.0ppm-2.25ppm and just being sure I get rid of everything. After Copper Power for 14 days at 2.25ppm in QT#1, I'll transfer to a new sterile QT#2, and treat with Prazipro in here. Meanwhile, clean QT#1 and prepare for split of fish for remaining days in Fallow to avoid issue with ammonia. I'm thinking if I am able to do 14 days instead of 30 days this will be easier on the wrasses and easier to deal with ammonia spikes.

 

[Elliott ll]

@Jay Hemdal @Humblefish

Is the Fallow period confirmed to be 6 weeks at 80 degrees? 80 degrees is my constant water temp anyways. Would be nice to save myself and fish 34 days of torment.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

@Jay Hemdal @Humblefish

Is the Fallow period confirmed to be 6 weeks at 80 degrees? 80 degrees is my constant water temp anyways. Would be nice to save myself and fish 34 days of torment.

The fallow period is not an exact science, but the minimum I like to see is 45 days at 81 f.
6 weeks at 80 would be less effective than that, so I wouldn’t advise it.
Jay