Ich reappearance AFTER Hypo

[belly14]

Firstly, APOLOGIES as I know there are a million and one threads already about Ich treatment and management etc but I read so many I then get lost as to what to do so I thought I'd explain my situation and see if there is any specific advice to me...

So new marine tank had Ich after about 2 months of being up and running. After losing the tang which I think bought it in maybe, all the fish were infected so I did an initial treatment of NT Labs Anti-Bacterial and then NT Labs Anti-Parasite. Neither seemed effective so I started HYPO and got down to 1.009 for around 6 weeks as suggested by my LFS. After that, I have slowly bought back up to around 1.025/6 (I use natural seawater that gets delivered), however, I am now seeing what I believe to be ich again on both Puffers as pictured.

During the Hypo I lost my cleaner shrimp and snails as to be expected, I have since added a new cleaner and some turbos in along with a new Juwell Puffer.

I do not quarantine as the LFS buys from TMC and advised not to (controversial I know but seems to be the way in the UK, and the LFS has a very good reputation so I trusted them and have never QT's with my many Freshwater tanks)

I do not want to go down the HYPO route again for obvious reasons so just wondered if anyone had any advice for management. All water levels are good

All fish are happy and eating well on a diet of various frozen foods such as mysis, Bryne, cockels, prawns, fish eggs etc to give all of them what they need.

Currently in the tank are:

• Clown Trigger
• Dog Faced Puffer
• Foxface
• 2 x Clowns
• 3 x Green Chromis
• Jewell Puffer
• Mandarinfish
• Aiptasia Eating Filefish
• Cleaner Shrimp
• 2 small and 1 giant Turbo
• Some GSP and a couple of mushrooms

Tank Runs:

• TMC Vectron Titan 550UV set to slowest flow rate
• Bubblemagus Skimmer
• Carbon Reactor
• Fleece Roller Filter
• In the process of setting up an in-sump refugium with Chaeto.

Thanks in advance if anyone has some tips/tricks or anything to use in the main display to help ease or eradicate i'd be forever grateful!.

Chris.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

The timing that you outlined suggests that the new puffer brought ich back into your tank.

There is just not a good argument for not quarantining fish. I even quarantine fish coming in from other public aquariums. Captive raised fish that have not been exposed to wild caught fish may not require a full quarantine, but even Biota suggests their fish be housed in an isolation tank for a few weeks to adapt better. Pre quarantined fish are an option that some people have. Remember - even a full quarantine will not protect against all diseases, just the most commonly deadly ones.

If you go with "ich management", you need to hit it from multiple fronts. Here is a write up I did on that:

“Ich Management” Because many aquarists mix fish and invertebrates, they are ill-prepared to then treat for marine ich, as the two best treatments, amine-based copper or hyposalinity, cannot be used with invertebrates. A popular technique has then arisen, “ich management”. It is popular not because it works well, but because it is an easier alternative. Be forewarned, it often fails if applied during moderate infections. The reason that it exists as a technique at all is because people find themselves in situations like this and are desperate to try anything.

The basic idea is to reduce the infective propagules (tomites) of the ich parasite to the point where the fish's acquired immunity can fight the infection off. This is done through a series of techniques for stress reduction and tomite limiting. Unfortunately, the ich tomites themselves cause stress to the fish, so if the fish have more than 30 or so trophonts on them, the method often fails.

1) Install a powerful UV sterilizer on the aquarium.
2) Ensure that the fish's diet and water quality are the best you can make them.
3) Keep the water temperature close to 78 degrees F.
4) Siphon off the tank floor nightly to remove as many tomonts as possible.
5) Employ strong filtration to trap as many tomites as possible.
6) Try a proprietary "reef safe" marine ich medication. These rarely cure ich infections on their own, but some may have benefit when combined with other management methods. Avoid the herbal remedies, focus on those that contain peroxide salts. There is, however, some evidence that using peroxides with UV does not work, as the UV can break down the peroxides.

Side note: you have a rather eclectic assortment of fish - please keep an eye on them, I would not expect the smaller fish, like the mandarin to do well with a clown trigger long term,

Jay

 

[belly14]

The timing that you outlined suggests that the new puffer brought ich back into your tank.

There is just not a good argument for not quarantining fish. I even quarantine fish coming in from other public aquariums. Captive raised fish that have not been exposed to wild caught fish may not require a full quarantine, but even Biota suggests their fish be housed in an isolation tank for a few weeks to adapt better. Pre quarantined fish are an option that some people have. Remember - even a full quarantine will not protect against all diseases, just the most commonly deadly ones.

If you go with "ich management", you need to hit it from multiple fronts. Here is a write up I did on that:

“Ich Management” Because many aquarists mix fish and invertebrates, they are ill-prepared to then treat for marine ich, as the two best treatments, amine-based copper or hyposalinity, cannot be used with invertebrates. A popular technique has then arisen, “ich management”. It is popular not because it works well, but because it is an easier alternative. Be forewarned, it often fails if applied during moderate infections. The reason that it exists as a technique at all is because people find themselves in situations like this and are desperate to try anything.

The basic idea is to reduce the infective propagules (tomites) of the ich parasite to the point where the fish's acquired immunity can fight the infection off. This is done through a series of techniques for stress reduction and tomite limiting. Unfortunately, the ich tomites themselves cause stress to the fish, so if the fish have more than 30 or so trophonts on them, the method often fails.

1) Install a powerful UV sterilizer on the aquarium.
2) Ensure that the fish's diet and water quality are the best you can make them.
3) Keep the water temperature close to 78 degrees F.
4) Siphon off the tank floor nightly to remove as many tomonts as possible.
5) Employ strong filtration to trap as many tomites as possible.
6) Try a proprietary "reef safe" marine ich medication. These rarely cure ich infections on their own, but some may have benefit when combined with other management methods. Avoid the herbal remedies, focus on those that contain peroxide salts. There is, however, some evidence that using peroxides with UV does not work, as the UV can break down the peroxides.

Side note: you have a rather eclectic assortment of fish - please keep an eye on them, I would not expect the smaller fish, like the mandarin to do well with a clown trigger long term,

Jay

Hi Jay,

Thanks for the reply, I had read your steps on some other threads and found them very useful. Other than siphoning off each night (which I'll now start) I am trying to follow the rest of the steps.

Do you recommend any particular medication? I have some of the ND Labs Anti-Parasite left but as mentioned didn't seem to do much last time.

With regards to QT, it's something if I am being honest with myself that makes so much sense to do, I think I just took the lazy way out on the advice of the LFS and others local to me who do not also QT. I have a 45-litre tank empty and the kit I'd need to set it up as a QT. Is it worth even setting this up for any future additions if I clearly have Ich present in the DT?

Thanks for the advice on the fish, I checked up online and again with LFS that they all will get on and touch wood so far all happy but for sure will keep an eye out as already got my eye on another even larger tank so would then be able to split them if necessary.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hi Jay,

Thanks for the reply, I had read your steps on some other threads and found them very useful. Other than siphoning off each night (which I'll now start) I am trying to follow the rest of the steps.

Do you recommend any particular medication? I have some of the ND Labs Anti-Parasite left but as mentioned didn't seem to do much last time.

With regards to QT, it's something if I am being honest with myself that makes so much sense to do, I think I just took the lazy way out on the advice of the LFS and others local to me who do not also QT. I have a 45-litre tank empty and the kit I'd need to set it up as a QT. Is it worth even setting this up for any future additions if I clearly have Ich present in the DT?

Thanks for the advice on the fish, I checked up online and again with LFS that they all will get on and touch wood so far all happy but for sure will keep an eye out as already got my eye on another even larger tank so would then be able to split them if necessary.

Sorry, I don’t know that product.
Have you seen our quarantine process?

Current Quarantine Protocol

2023 Quarantine Procedures Jay Hemdal David Scarborough Protozoans (Cryptocaryon/ich, Amyloodinium/velvet) and Metazoan trematodes/flukes are by far the most common parasites found on newly acquired fish. A carefully managed quarantine process can effectively eliminate these parasites before...

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

 

[belly14]

Thanks, Jay, I'll have a read!

is it too late to start the QT process with new fish if Ich is in the tank already?

As of today both the puffers seem to be better and all others clear too.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thanks, Jay, I'll have a read!

is it too late to start the QT process with new fish if Ich is in the tank already?

As of today both the puffers seem to be better and all others clear too.

I try to avoid adding new fish to a system that has an active infection of any type - it just really complicated things.

Jay