I'D Please

terri_ann · Jun 24, 2017

It looks internal. I now have an outbreak of ich or velvet too. The fish was QT'd also.

Using Metro and Focus. Cannot
catch any of the fish in this tank so must do an intank treatment. l am completely stumped on what it is and how to treat. How to treat for ich or velvet also. TIA

GHsaltie · Jun 24, 2017

What symptoms are you noticing that make you think ich or velvet? Flashing, swimming into the flow of a return/powerhead, lethargy, sensitivity to light? Do you have any pictures of the fish that are showing symptoms? What and when was the last wet thing added? If you have either one then unfortunately you will have to QT, as of yet there is no guaranteed reef-safe treatment, only snake oil.
What stock do you have, and do you notice any aggression? I noticed his caudal fin is a little bit tattered, that's why I ask. In regards to the mark, I honestly have no clue, it could be bacterial or could be an injury. If it is bacterial then you are at least ahead of the game by feeding metro. If you have kanaplex then that would be another option. I'll call in some more help to try and get a diagnosis for the mark.

@Humblefish @melypr1985 @ngoodermuth @Brew12

Brew12 · Jun 24, 2017

Using Metro and Focus may give you good results if it is either Ich or Velvet. Not many studies done but it does seem to show promise. The directions as given for Metro are designed to allow a fish time to gain an immunity to the Ich or Velvet. If you want to try and get either completely out of your system you would need to treat for at least 24 days and maybe much longer than that.

aykwm · Jun 24, 2017

Are you sure its velvet or ich? Did you check the symptoms, flashing, sensitivity to light, swimming to the flow. From the picture I can see a cloudy eye, can you confirm that? It might be an infection rather than velvet or ich. Although velvet is common these days. It might also be combination of both. Please let as know the symptoms/ behaviors ASAP.

According to seachem metro and kana can be used in food to treat velvet, I'm not convinced by the way they said it works, basically the medication is absorbed through the fish skin, so when the parasite is eating through the fish flesh, it will ingest the medication which will kill it. Im not sure how effective this is, and if it is velvet I don't think you have enough time to wait to feed the fish and wait for the med to be absorbed through the skin. The best option is to quarantine the fish.

terri_ann · Jun 24, 2017

I'm sure there is ich or velvet in there with plenty of fish showing it. Not sure what the round area is on the Magnificent , only it's internal.

terri_ann · Jun 24, 2017

The tank is a 180g with over 15 fish. I've been in the hobby for years, maybe 30+. The 1st is not big enough nor can I catch the fish without tearing the rock and corals out.

terri_ann · Jun 24, 2017

Sorry, on phone. The qt tank isn't big enough.

terri_ann · Jun 24, 2017

Brew12, should I use both Metro and Kanaplex? I have both.

aykwm · Jun 24, 2017

Well, there is no reef safe medication out there. You can tell us the symptoms to decide whether its velvet or ich. If it is ich then providing vitamins in food and good water parameters will let the fish fight it on its own. If it is velvet then I suggest ruby reef rally, it will relief the fish and might help them develop immunity, although velvet will still be in the tank and you will not be able to add new fish.
Also for the fox face, it might be internal infection causing the bulge in his belly and the possible cloudy eyes, I suggest feeding metroplex and kanaplex along with focus to bind the meds with food, and who knows it might help the situation of ich or velvet.

Maritimer · Jun 24, 2017

Were inverts / corals QT'd? When was the last introduction of anything "wet"?

That info might help develop a timeline that could indicate whether you're dealing with ich or velvet.

The foxface's mark is surprisingly circular - not something I've seen before with a disease, but possibly something you'd see with an injury of some sort. Is there anything in your tank that could leave a mark like that on him? He also seems just a tad on the thin side to me, which might or might not have anything to do with anything.

There are "medications" which claim to be both reef-safe and effective against ich and velvet, but my personal experience with them has been that they are neither. _Most_ fish can develop a temporary immunity against ich, which lasts about six months. If they're continually exposed to it in small doses, the six month periods would begin to sort of roll along, and the fish in your tank would appear to be immune. (Commonly termed "ich management".) New fish would be at risk, and a stressor, such as a day or three with a broken air conditioner, might allow ich to gain the upper hand. With velvet .... not sure if there's a similar immunity.

QT with copper or Chloroquine Phosphate, along with running the tank fishless for 76 days is still the best option - though understandably difficult with your setup.

~Bruce

GHsaltie · Jun 24, 2017

Do you have any anemones? For some reason I have this vague memory of a thread where someone had a fish that kept showing up with similar marks and he deducted that it was his anemone stinging the fish while shrunk up at night.

melypr1985 · Jun 24, 2017

I'll admit to only skimming through the thread. I just wanted to share my thoughts on your problem.

The mark on the Mag Fox looks like a bit to me. I'm not sure what would have done it that's in your tank, but that's my first thought just looking at it.

As to the ich/velvet issue, there is no reef safe cure (as previously mentioned). If it's ich, you could possibly run an ich management tank and hope they all develop a resistance to it. It's possible to do. If it's velvet (or both) then the fish will need to be removed for treatment. With velvet, most of the fish will likely die very quickly I'm sorry to say. Some will probably survive (maybe one or two) and continue to be carriers of it which will then infect any new fish that are added afterwards (no matter how long you wait). I know that's all bad news really, and I'm terribly sorry for it. You may be better off just hunting craigslist for a larger QT.

terri_ann · Jun 25, 2017

Thanks everyone for the input. The lawnmower Benny is sleeping at the MP 60 powerhead. He's never done that. He seems a little bloated too(like the Mag Fox). The spotted mandarin go by is flashing in the sand. He carries some sand grains on him too which is uncommon. The flame angel is covered but I cannot tell if it's ich or velvet. Looks like sugar grains, not larger white spots as they disappeared a couple days ago or, the sugar stuff is now hiding it. Cannot see anything on the purple & yellow thangs. Nor do I see anything on the smaller wrasses but my large yellow-flanked appears to have some fine white covering. Cardinals and clowns cannot see anything on them. Yes, Mag Fox is thin and some cloudiness to eyes. It's been years since I had a 1 spot fox...his eyes always looked cloudy to me so I didn't think much about the Mag' s. Just been watching them. No BTA's in the tank. No fish have large enough mouths to leave a bite mark like that. It looks like ringworm almost. The Mag Fox was added about a month ago. Damsels, powder blue & brown tangs anthias, flame wrasse, yellow tang and others have been added in the past 2 years. The tank has been run under ich management for the past 2 years. Have been replacing my old fish due to natural deaths the past two years. So even though everything has been QT'd, I'm positive ich is in there because of the tangs and airborne contamination. I've seen the immunity in past years. Just have never experienced velvet. I'd venture to guess velvet now [emoji46] Hopefully they won't all die! No room available to add another large tank for QT or it would be running [emoji6] I would like to know if velvet is now in there. Haven't seen any flashing except for the Mandarin. Lawnmower, yellow flanked wrasse and damsels appear more light sensitive than others[emoji17]

aykwm · Jun 25, 2017

The symptoms you described (swimming by the power head, dusty or salt like spots, light sensitivity) highly suggest velvet. I would highly suggest removing all the fish and treating with copper ASAP (CP is not compatible for wrasse or anthias). I also suggest giving either formalin,acriflavine,or water dip to provide some relief from velvet. Again if you don't want to do it I would suggest dosing acriflavine (Ruby Reef Rally) to the tank, its relatively reef safe (although I lost few SPS because it tans the water and effects the photosynthetic spectrum of the light), but this will not cure the fish, and any new fish added to the tank will be infected with velvet again. Also expect to lose some fish, and the surviving fish will develop immunity for few months only.

I believe its not worth the risk to keep fish in tank. Try your best to remove the fish, I had no choice but to break down my tank in order to remove every single fish.

Again act fast, velvet can kill fish very fast, sometimes within a day or two or even hours.

GHsaltie · Jun 25, 2017

I agree, the symptoms you described sound like velvet. Your best option if you want to save these fish and get rid of the problem is to remove and treat with CP.

aykwm · Jun 25, 2017

GHsaltie said:
I agree, the symptoms you described sound like velvet. Your best option if you want to save these fish and get rid of the problem is to remove and treat with CP.

Bad idea to treat using CP since he already has wrasses and anthias

Humblefish said:
Chloroquine phosphate:
** Based upon anecdotal experience (mine and others), DO NOT USE CP on Anthias, Wrasses or Hippo Tangs. For the time being, chelated copper (exs. Coppersafe, Copper Power) is the best alternative to use on these species. **

aykwm · Jun 25, 2017

Correction to my previous post** I just noticed you also have angelfish and mandarin, which are sensitive to copper and needs to be treated with CP. Your option is to set up two hospital tanks one with CP and one with copper. Anthias and wrasse can be treated with copper, while angel fish and mandarin with CP, the rest can be divided into both tanks as they are not affected by both medications.

terri_ann · Jun 25, 2017

Other names for CP? Or similar? Don't have any that I'm aware of....

aykwm · Jun 25, 2017

Chloroquine phosphate. Its not common, you need a vets script to get it from pharmacy, or you can check your LFS or fellow reefer if they have some on hands. You can check @Humblefish post on getting CP https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/a-place-to-buy-chloroquine.252610/