Input

[RELLIK-REEF]

Hello everyone, I've started planning and designing our big build. DT will be approximately 1400 gallons. Now I work with irrigation daily and my thought is building an irrigation manifold with a few valves that I can control with just a normal irrigation timer. The pump will be controlled through the apex. This will allow for multiple returns in the tank that can be turned on and off at different times throughout the day, creating a constant change in the water patterns. I'm looking at this do to cost. It will be one extra return pump, valves and some PVC that can be hidden in the rockwork. This is a way cheaper option than running a bunch of powerheads. Plus I won't see them in the tank. Now I will still add a few, probably the neptune waves. But I would like to hear some thoughts on this idea.

 

[NautiTang]

Seems like a pretty good idea to me, my initial thoughts are to make sure your plumbing is food grafe and wont break down or leach chemicals into your tank. Powerheads provide a lot of flow compared ro what you can get a similar priced pump for. Check out random flow generators to get a little more efficiency out of the closed loops and return lines. Really cool idea!!

 

[RELLIK-REEF]

Seems like a pretty good idea to me, my initial thoughts are to make sure your plumbing is food grafe and wont break down or leach chemicals into your tank. Powerheads provide a lot of flow compared ro what you can get a similar priced pump for. Check out random flow generators to get a little more efficiency out of the closed loops and return lines. Really cool idea!!

I'm thinking I can run 1 decent size pump that won't cost near as much as the amount of powerheads I'd need. Plus they will be basically invisible, also only 2 more outlets will be used. The manifold and plumbing is still all schedule 40 pvc and the valves are also plastic so I don't see an issue with any leaching. I believe the only spring involved with the valves are stainless but if not I'll switch them. With these valves and the pump I should be getting around 1380gph flow at each outlet no matter if I turn on 1 valve at a time or all 6 I'm planning on having this should give great water movement with the addition of the regular return and the waves.

 

[NautiTang]

Please correct me if I am way off base here. For a 1400 gal display you would need far more flow than 8,280gph (which is 6x1380) even for a fish only. I am not trying to be a nay sayer, you may have access to something I'm not aware of or a used pump, I am trying to help so please dont be mad, I’m here to learn too. Looking at BRS the only external pump i saw capable of that kind of flow is the Abyzz A1200 with a price tag of $5,500 and its on clearance. It has a rated flow of 12700gph and after headloss it will probably put you north of 8,200gph. I am not trying to discourage you from the closed loop idea with the toggle function, closed loops are attractive for many reasons just saying 1400g is a lot of water to move around. The random flow generators will give you a boost of flow with no extra pumps and provide excellent water flow variance. What pump do you plan to use?
P.S. even a stainless spring will corrode in seawater, you may need to add that to a preventive maintenance program to inspect/replace frequently. We don’t use stainless steel in seawater systems for this reason in the navy.

 

[mehaffydr]

Reeflo Tigershark is rated at 8500 GPH and only about $450.
I like this idea but I also would be concerned about Stainless in contact with the water.

 

[RELLIK-REEF]

I appreciate all input. I'm only looking at using this system to change water currents throughout the day in the tank without having powerheads all over, hopefully preventing any dead spots. I will most likely still be running 4 of the Neptune waves for movement they are 4000 gph each, plus the constant flow from the return. I'm actually looking at trying an Aqua Pulse 10,000 for a return pump and the same one for this part of it. I have a frind that has ran one of these pumps on his reef for a while now with no issues. I will only have 5' of head height so I think I should be fine with the turnover rate, at the low end I need 8k turnover which the pump and powerheads hit just fine. But this is why I'm asking questions before we start

 

[RELLIK-REEF]

Please correct me if I am way off base here. For a 1400 gal display you would need far more flow than 8,280gph (which is 6x1380) even for a fish only. I am not trying to be a nay sayer, you may have access to something I'm not aware of or a used pump, I am trying to help so please dont be mad, I’m here to learn too. Looking at BRS the only external pump i saw capable of that kind of flow is the Abyzz A1200 with a price tag of $5,500 and its on clearance. It has a rated flow of 12700gph and after headloss it will probably put you north of 8,200gph. I am not trying to discourage you from the closed loop idea with the toggle function, closed loops are attractive for many reasons just saying 1400g is a lot of water to move around. The random flow generators will give you a boost of flow with no extra pumps and provide excellent water flow variance. What pump do you plan to use?
P.S. even a stainless spring will corrode in seawater, you may need to add that to a preventive maintenance program to inspect/replace frequently. We don’t use stainless steel in seawater systems for this reason in the navy.

In no way am I arguing remember this is all about info. I also come from a big Navy family, so thank you for your services. My wife just retired 20years. While almost everything the Navy uses is powder coated, it is stainless because it doesn't rust it will only get oxidation. Or so I've been informed this is also why most offshore boats are constructed with stainless screws and bolts. I have no problem switching the needles and springs to a plastic composite. I would for sure make this a maintenance check though.

 

[Jubei2006]

Reeflo Tigershark is rated at 8500 GPH and only about $450.
I like this idea but I also would be concerned about Stainless in contact with the water.

If you go to Reeflos site they have pumps over that in the 2 to 3hp range. Could also drop in a hydrowizard?

 

[RELLIK-REEF]

Oh nice price too. 2hp 11,000gph
Thanks

 

[Jubei2006]

Oh nice price too. 2hp 11,000gph
Thanks

NP looked at them for my 525 gallon closed loop.

 

[RELLIK-REEF]

NP looked at them for my 525 gallon closed loop.

I might just go with 2 of those. Also I was reading your build thread earlier didn't wanna reply until I finished it. Nice job.

 

[flagg37]

The only advice I would give is to try and keep it as simple as possible. Every extra part is another point of failure.

 

[NautiTang]

In no way am I arguing remember this is all about info. I also come from a big Navy family, so thank you for your services. My wife just retired 20years. While almost everything the Navy uses is powder coated, it is stainless because it doesn't rust it will only get oxidation. Or so I've been informed this is also why most offshore boats are constructed with stainless screws and bolts. I have no problem switching the needles and springs to a plastic composite. I would for sure make this a maintenance check though.

Lots of parts are made of SS with paint or powder coating but the seawater systems are made from CuNi or NiCu. At least on submarines. Either way small world running into another navy family. Didn't know reeflo made those larger pumps.

 

[AlexG]

Hello everyone, I've started planning and designing our big build. DT will be approximately 1400 gallons. Now I work with irrigation daily and my thought is building an irrigation manifold with a few valves that I can control with just a normal irrigation timer. The pump will be controlled through the apex. This will allow for multiple returns in the tank that can be turned on and off at different times throughout the day, creating a constant change in the water patterns. I'm looking at this do to cost. It will be one extra return pump, valves and some PVC that can be hidden in the rockwork. This is a way cheaper option than running a bunch of powerheads. Plus I won't see them in the tank. Now I will still add a few, probably the neptune waves. But I would like to hear some thoughts on this idea.

While your idea can work I would have a few concerns with the efficiency and control. For your main return pump I would not have connected to any controllers and it should be constantly an on a separate power circuit from your apex controller for failure redundancy. For the flow patterns you are talking about a closed loop style system can be made with programable valves which can work to randomize flow but it will not be able to produce really high flow unless you have a monster pump. Even then the new propeller style pumps have such a high power efficiency for the flow they produce it has become a much better choice over a closed loop system. While you might not like the idea of power heads in a tank that size you can hide them inside a rock structure. I am not sure what you are planning to keep in your system but if you are planning an SPS reef you will need significantly more flow than a closed loop, return and 4 wave pumps alone can provide.

As an example in my 400 gallon right now I have 22,600gph of flow potential that can turn the tank over 56x/hr if everything is on max power. Considering random flow modes and max power on some pumps reduced its fair to say my 400 gallon tank is turning over ~25-30x/hr in just flow inside the tank with the return pump moving ~3000gph.

For my new display tank which is around 4200 gallons I have a 1400 gallon section that will be dedicated to non-reef safe fish and I am going to have a minimum of 10x turnover rate for that section of the display likely using a panta rhei or abyzz pump just to keep the fish happy. I would also add the methods used by pump makers to determine flow are not all the same so it depends on if you are looking for a wide flow pattern or a high velocity stream of water that can go the distance. I am not planning any closed loop pump systems due to their inefficiency at this scale. Also if you plan a closed loop system would not recommend having any holes in the bottom of your aquarium and to run the pumping in from above the tank or high on the sides to minimize water loss in the event of a bulkhead failure.

 

[RELLIK-REEF]

While your idea can work I would have a few concerns with the efficiency and control. For your main return pump I would not have connected to any controllers and it should be constantly an on a separate power circuit from your apex controller for failure redundancy. For the flow patterns you are talking about a closed loop style system can be made with programable valves which can work to randomize flow but it will not be able to produce really high flow unless you have a monster pump. Even then the new propeller style pumps have such a high power efficiency for the flow they produce it has become a much better choice over a closed loop system. While you might not like the idea of power heads in a tank that size you can hide them inside a rock structure. I am not sure what you are planning to keep in your system but if you are planning an SPS reef you will need significantly more flow than a closed loop, return and 4 wave pumps alone can provide.

As an example in my 400 gallon right now I have 22,600gph of flow potential that can turn the tank over 56x/hr if everything is on max power. Considering random flow modes and max power on some pumps reduced its fair to say my 400 gallon tank is turning over ~25-30x/hr in just flow inside the tank with the return pump moving ~3000gph.

For my new display tank which is around 4200 gallons I have a 1400 gallon section that will be dedicated to non-reef safe fish and I am going to have a minimum of 10x turnover rate for that section of the display likely using a panta rhei or abyzz pump just to keep the fish happy. I would also add the methods used by pump makers to determine flow are not all the same so it depends on if you are looking for a wide flow pattern or a high velocity stream of water that can go the distance. I am not planning any closed loop pump systems due to their inefficiency at this scale. Also if you plan a closed loop system would not recommend having any holes in the bottom of your aquarium and to run the pumping in from above the tank or high on the sides to minimize water loss in the event of a

Thank you for you knowledgeable input. I will be running the main return to the tank on its own no manifold just a direct return. The second pump will be just to create different flows at random from other sections of the tank. I've also been looking into the Plast-O-Matic ball valves then I will only have to use the breakout to control those. So if we start putting these all together looking at a 11,000gph main return and lets just say it's 10,000gph after its head height. Plus 4 waves that are rated at 4,000gph but for this info we will say 3,000gph not on 100%, do to ramping and alternate patterns. A second 11,000gph pump dedicated to my 6 loop returns that are estimated to be about 2,200gph at each outlet, I changed this to 1" so lets say 2,000gph creating anothe 12,000gph. The other ports to come off this manifold will run reactors and such, but with these numbers I should be around 24 times turnover per hr. Ok so add 2 more waves and that will kick us up around 28 times per hr.
I do plan on running this system from the outside corners of the tank exept for the main returns and 2 of these have to come in through the bottom in the middle, as this tank will be a full walk around, overflow and those returns will be coming through the skimmer box. I'm looking into adding the Sea Swirls at the corner returns for the movement. I have the idea of the tank in my head and some ugly paper sketches but I'll try to put someting together and post a rough draft for this.
This will be a mixed reef but hoping SPS dominant.

I really do appreciate everyones input. This will most likely be our forever tank and I don't want to rush into it. Also don't want to break the bank building it.