IOND Costs

[arking_mark]

@Vinny@GHLUSA Do you know IOND's accuracy for Ca measurements?

 

[Vinny@GHLUSA]

@Vinny@GHLUSA Do you know IOND's accuracy for Ca measurements?

What's more important is the repeatability of the device or error ratio which is 1-2%. You'll have the option to use the offset feature if you choose to rely on another testing method's results.

 

[arking_mark]

What's more important is the repeatability of the device or error ratio which is 1-2%. You'll have the option to use the offset feature if you choose to rely on another testing method's results.

Sorry, could you further break that down for me?

Does this mean that for 450ppm Ca reading, an immediate follow on reading will be expected to be be between 445.5 - 454.5?

 

[vangvace]

It's how I controlled my Alk with my KHD. I was really able to stabilize it for my old tank. I was hoping to use the IOND similarly for other parameters

It should be able to do that, but I would also say that Alk is more volatile than the IOND tested parameters so your 4x a day testing may be able to drop to 1x a day.

I have a calcium reactor. That pretty much takes care of clacium, alkalinity and magnesium.
What's left? Nitrate and salinity? I don't see a way to control either of those automatically.
I'll use the IOND to make sure the calcium reactor is doing it's job. Which is how I test now. One test a day should be more than enough.

I recently started carbon dosing to get my nitrate down. I plan on using the IOND to automate that dosing over time. I don't 2-part dose so the Sodium levels is less important to me from what I understand.

Sorry, could you further break that down for me?

Does this mean that for 450ppm Ca reading, an immediate follow on reading will be expected to be be between 445.5 - 454.5?

What Vinny is saying is that the test is very consistent with a 1-2% test to test error. Most of the popular test kits are 5% margin of error. The offset feature will let you adjust the IOND reading if it consistently reads 440 while you know it is 450; you can bump the offset up 10 for a 450 reading.

 

[CEReefer]

It should be able to do that, but I would also say that Alk is more volatile than the IOND tested parameters so your 4x a day testing may be able to drop to 1x a day.



I recently started carbon dosing to get my nitrate down. I plan on using the IOND to automate that dosing over time. I don't 2-part dose so the Sodium levels is less important to me from what I understand.



What Vinny is saying is that the test is very consistent with a 1-2% test to test error. Most of the popular test kits are 5% margin of error. The offset feature will let you adjust the IOND reading if it consistently reads 440 while you know it is 450; you can bump the offset up 10 for a 450 reading.

Sorry to jump in.. but to be honest, I would never use the offset feature on the IOND, between a ionic probe with a 2 point calibration before each test and a hobby level test kit, I will 1000% believe the first. I believe that 1x measurement/day is appropriate

 

[vangvace]

@CEReefer I agree

 

[arking_mark]

Just to get this thread back on track. Could the IOND be economical for controlling dosing based on Ca readings for AFR?

 

[robbyg]

So if we instead tested once a week, we're talking 1.5 bottles a year per reagent ~$90 total.

I cannot see the point of spending so much money buying AWT hardware just to test the water once per week, especially when it comes to Nitrate.
I would just do manual testing and save money.

 

[IKD]

Just to get this thread back on track. Could the IOND be economical for controlling dosing based on Ca readings for AFR?

I find myself focused on stabilizing alk and the CA levels do so in turn for me.

 

[IKD]

I cannot see the point of spending so much money buying AWT hardware just to test the water once per week, especially when it comes to Nitrate.
I would just do manual testing and save money.

I agree that once a week testing would make me reconsider the up-front cost. I test Nitrate less frequently than that already but I run the risk of it creeping up if I get too lazy about it.

 

[arking_mark]

I find myself focused on stabilizing alk and the CA levels do so in turn for me.

Can't really use Alk for AFR.

 

[IKD]

Can't really use Alk for AFR.

AFR means Tropic Marin All For Reef, right? It handles alk and calc (among other trace elements).

 

[arking_mark]

AFR means Tropic Marin All For Reef, right? It handles alk and calc (among other trace elements).

Yes accept Alk readings are delayed due to the required metabolic process that generates Alk from formate. Also, formate seems to be able to be used directly by corals. These 2 factors make using Alk measurements to provide stability harder. Ca is pretty immediate. So if you can instead use Ca measurements to maintain stability, your golden.

Current Ca testing is too inaccurate to use.

Let's assume you want a stability of +/- 0.2 dKH (a 0.4 range). That would be a 7ppm Ca equivalent. Using GHL, you would set a nominal 450ppm and 3.5ppm hysteresis.

However, if GHL is only 1 - 2% accurate between measurements, it's not accurate enough either. A 2% measurement difference for 450ppm is 9ppm or roughly 0.5dKH equivalent. Most people wouldn't use an Alk tester for controlling that was that inconsistent.

However, for knowing your Ca, this is probably the most accurate Tester I've seen. I personally think the Hanna reading are +/- 20ppm.

 

[CEReefer]

@Vinny@GHLUSA Is there a point at which testing too little can become an issue with the probe? Would it go “bad” if it is not used for 2-3 days?

 

[Vinny@GHLUSA]

@Vinny@GHLUSA Is there a point at which testing too little can become an issue with the probe? Would it go “bad” if it is not used for 2-3 days?

No issue if you want to test every 2 or 3 days. Even once per week is fine if you wanted to go that route.

 

[CEReefer]

No issue if you want to test every 2 or 3 days. Even once per week is fine if you wanted to go that route.

That’s fantastic! Also, I totally believe we can’t argue about cost, if that’s an issue manual testing is fine. But having the most accurate test on the market at the touch of a button, it’s priceless, let alone controlling dosing and what not.

Also people don’t realize that starting a tank with the IOND and adjusting dosing of KNO3/Vinegar will allow the steadiest nutritional environment and avoid all those issues everyone has with an immature tank. Again priceless!

 

[robbyg]

No issue if you want to test every 2 or 3 days. Even once per week is fine if you wanted to go that route.

Vinny I guess the flip side of that question is do you get more life out of the probe if you test less often?
Any correlation between tests and life span or is it just based on the water quality?

Also what is the expiry period on the reference fluids? That time period is what really sets the minimum amount of tests you would want to do unless your going to throw expired Cal fluid down the toilet. It also gives people a better idea of what size bottles to buy if they really plan on doing weekly tests.

 

[robbyg]

@Vinny@GHLUSA any Answer to the Question?

 

[Vinny@GHLUSA]

@robbyg
As mentioned earlier, the life span depends on the quality of the water. Just because one tests 1x/week doesn't necessarily mean the sensor will last longer if the water quality is not so great. On the other hand, if the quality is good the sensor will see a lengthier life.

Of course there will be a correlation between number of tests too because if one tests 500 times with "dirtier" water compared to 500 tests with "cleaner" water, the life span of the sensor will not be the same.

Regardless, the diagnostic feature will check the sensor performance and tell you when it's time to consider replacing.

If reference fluids are kept stored at room temperature, un-opened, away from sunlight, you'll easily get 1 year out of them. Since these are a special mix of SW fluids, you don't want to leave these with the caps off otherwise they're susceptible to evaporation...and just like SW, when evaporation occurs it changes the ionic concentration which you don't want happening with these fluids.

 

[Scdell]

@robbyg
As mentioned earlier, the life span depends on the quality of the water. Just because one tests 1x/week doesn't necessarily mean the sensor will last longer if the water quality is not so great. On the other hand, if the quality is good the sensor will see a lengthier life.

Of course there will be a correlation between number of tests too because if one tests 500 times with "dirtier" water compared to 500 tests with "cleaner" water, the life span of the sensor will not be the same.

Regardless, the diagnostic feature will check the sensor performance and tell you when it's time to consider replacing.

If reference fluids are kept stored at room temperature, un-opened, away from sunlight, you'll easily get 1 year out of them. Since these are a special mix of SW fluids, you don't want to leave these with the caps off otherwise they're susceptible to evaporation...and just like SW, when evaporation occurs it changes the ionic concentration which you don't want happening with these fluids.

This all makes sense. I'm sure all this will be explained in the manual when we receive them.
Kinda makes me wonder how many people bought just cause it's the latest, greatest without understanding how it'll work?