IS IT TRUE THAT 80% OF PEOPLE WILL HAVE FISH LOSSES DUE TO DISEASE/PARASITES IN FIRST 8 MONTHS IF DONT QUARANTINE ?

[Goaway]

There is more to death of a fish than disease and parasites. Fish jumping, fish stressed, aggression, collection method, injuries while shipped (netting, bagging, being starved).

When people enter the hobby, they do not know what to avoid. They see this overly beautiful wrasse(hole) and think "thats the fish i want". Does anyone remember the old saying "rent a wrasse"? 14 days... If the wrasse doesn't die on you, there's a high chance it will be with you a long time. Keep the tank covered best as possible.

Now we have angelfish and diets. Some like the grey belly regal angel needs a lot of sponge to eat. Has there been any changes on this? Orange - yellow bellies seem to do much better.
The first year of a reef/fish tank is the hardest. My own experience.
There is so much to learn.

Back on topic...
100% of new aquarium keepers will experience fish loss with in a few months. With or without a hospital tank. Also, not to just disease and parasites.

 

[HuduVudu]

I think a bigger problem today in the hobby when new people start they don’t have a clue of the nitrogen cycle, new people used to read and learn the whole process of what taking place during the initial cycle.

For the newer generations ... we used to read BOOKS. Books were not easy to get on the hobby. Also they were not cheap to print and publishers of said books wanted a return on their investment. That made the amount of available information near nothing.

Often times said books were just re-hashes of fresh water ideas TBF most of the tech back in the day was from the fresh water hobby.

Nowadays too many want instant gratification and are impatient.

That isn't a new phenomona. Having worked in a various fish stores, I can attest that that was a constant.

The difference now is that you can see it.

That’s why bottle bac and instant cycle is so popular.

Before Walt Smith, Fritz was about your only choice to try and get a cycle. Your other choice was the LFSs nasty crushed coral.

The hobby is moving backward not forward.

I been keeping marine fish since 1972, never had a tank wipeout and haven’t lost many fish from disease. I have lost some and it’s no fun.
I still cycled all tanks the same today as I did in 72.

You are lucky. I have been doing this since 1983. Unfortunately for me being in a small town the only information that I got is the same information that Brandon is promoting right now. SMDH.

 

[i cant think]

There is more to death of a fish than disease and parasites. Fish jumping, fish stressed, aggression, collection method, injuries while shipped (netting, bagging, being starved).

When people enter the hobby, they do not know what to avoid. They see this overly beautiful wrasse(hole) and think "thats the fish i want". Does anyone remember the old saying "rent a wrasse"? 14 days... If the wrasse doesn't die on you, there's a high chance it will be with you a long time. Keep the tank covered best as possible.

Now we have angelfish and diets. Some like the grey belly regal angel needs a lot of sponge to eat. Has there been any changes on this? Orange - yellow bellies seem to do much better.
The first year of a reef/fish tank is the hardest. My own experience.
There is so much to learn.

Back on topic...
100% of new aquarium keepers will experience fish loss with in a few months. With or without a hospital tank. Also, not to just disease and parasites.

I agree with you completely here! I think you need to know what you’re getting (I’ve got a wrasshole - Jade wrasse and it was bought in the first few months of my tank being stable, I love her to bits but have to return her for aggressive reasons). I especially need to now that I have a flashing tilefish in the same tank, I have a tang but actually introduction went WAY better than expected! Nobody cares about a new fish they just look at it and think it’s an old fish. It’s only been a few minutes (20?) since she was added and still the tang cares more about the old guys than the new guy!

 

[ReefGeezer]

I think most everyone loses a new fish from time to time. Additionally, like most, I lost a lot of fish to a poorly managed outbreak when my first tank was new.

I've been in this hobby about as long as anybody here at R2R. I've QT'd fish, not QT'd fish, bought QT'd fish, bought fish directly from the wholesaler and trans-shippers, bought fish from an LFS, and bought fish on-line... oh yea, and owned my area's largest fish store. FWIW, here are my thoughts concerning QT and fish deaths...
1. A certain number of fish will die regardless of what we do. These specimens were damaged in capture or shipment or just can't adjust to captivity. Most die quickly before we can acquire them, but some die weeks or even months later. QT won't help.
2. Some fish acquire parasitic infestations after capture. This happens at a time of very high stress. These fish are not as likely to survive when placed directly in a display tank. QT could help them if it can be accomplished while also reducing the stress level. Unfortunately, that is difficult to do in a small, sterile, QT tanks. In many cases, QT increases the stress and the weakened fish dies even more quickly.
3. Newer tanks don't have much potential to limit the propagation of pathogenic organisms. Proper QT can ensure that even apparently healthy fish are are not bringing pathogens into a less than optimal environment where they might explode into a full-on infestation.
4. Well established, mature tanks limit the propagation of pathogens. Qt'ing isn't as necessary.

 

[flourishofmediocrity]

My only question is: If this turned out to be true, would you QT?

 

[i cant think]

My only question is: If this turned out to be true, would you QT?

I still wouldn’t, I would take the risk and avoid the thin slime coat fish (Basically I’d have a tank filled with wrasse and tilefish, haha).

 

[brandon429]

ReefGeezer that post is really well said, that contrasts new tank challenges with your experience and your attempts at the various options tied into outcomes. Certain fish bring risk potentiation at higher degrees than others for certain maladies that really contributed well here.

a clear distinction on new tanks vs old tanks is really relevant

 

[flourishofmediocrity]

I still wouldn’t, I would take the risk and avoid the thin slime coat fish (Basically I’d have a tank filled with wrasse and tilefish, haha).

If this were a puppy instead of fish and there was an 80% chance the puppy would die and kill your other dogs if you didn't QT it, would you QT the puppy?

 

[i cant think]

If this were a puppy instead of fish and there was an 80% chance the puppy would die and kill your other dogs if you didn't QT it, would you QT the puppy?

Probably, and now you put it that way sure I would QT however let’s be real - These statistics aren’t 100% true. I don’t QT because I don’t like throwing extra stress on the fish, I have 1 thin slime coated fish (2 if the CBB or Angel has a thin slime coat) so I take that risk and always buy from the same LFS because they sometimes QT every so often (I think once a month).

 

[brandon429]

Page ten is really turning around here we should maintain that trend, best practices will rise to the top readers can skim off potentially during build research.

it was pointed out to me recently not to view all qt the same, Jay and Paul dont make stressful quarantines, there’s a continuum of quality and forethought there just like there is in overall reefing


so among quarantine debates, when speaking about fish stress those examples won’t be coming from quality setups that aren’t all scary bone white hospital scary setups.

 

[Jeffcb]

My only question is: If this turned out to be true, would you QT?

I don't have a QT so I will not.

How ever I am lucky to have a great relationship with a LFS that lets me hold them, especially a more expensive fish for 2-3 weeks. I stop in and observe it, watch it eat and so forth. All maybe can not do that. I am lucky I guess and that is a real value my LFS gives me.

I started this hobby in 1965 with one of these. I wish I had that tank still . Yes I am older but not that old. Had Mollys and Guppys. They all died eventually. Every fish I have every owned has passed eventually. Every fish that you all have had that you don't have now has as well. Hopefully I can out live the ones I have now.

How long does a Vlamingii live?

 

[WVNed]

If this were a puppy instead of fish and there was an 80% chance the puppy would die and kill your other dogs if you didn't QT it, would you QT the puppy?

No and I would feel sad for anyone that believed that. The fact that many people don't need to QT no longer means there is a way that can be learned where the tank disasters that are so common can be avoided.

It just means certain people get lucky now.

I had my tank disasters with a 10 gallon tank with a few FW livebearers in it a long long time ago. What I learned then has benefitted me for more than 50 years now.

 

[Jeffcb]

Being a non fish owner

Get a fish. If you prefer QT do it. Just get one.

 

[HuduVudu]

I don't have a QT so I will not.

How ever I am lucky to have a great relationship with a LFS that lets me hold them, especially a more expensive fish for 2-3 weeks. I stop in and observe it, watch it eat and so forth. All maybe can not do that. I am lucky I guess and that is a real value my LFS gives me.

I started this hobby in 1965 with one of these. I wish I had that tank still . Yes I am older but not that old. Had Mollys and Guppys. They all died eventually. Every fish I have every owned has passed eventually. Every fish that you all have had that you don't have now has as well. Hopefully I can out live the ones I have now.

How long does a Vlamingii live?

OMG I remeber those tanks. They were at every garage sale.

I got a wild hair up my .... you know where and I decided I wanted to start a fresh water planted. My salt water buddy knew how to do it so he volunteered to show me how. He showed me how to set it up. We went to the store, he pointed I bought. We brought everything home and he set it up and when he could he had me get my hands dirty. It was successful from the get go. I was really happy. It was what I wanted it to be. Then after about 8 months I had a black tetra die ... I freaked out. I called him and told him. I was listing everything I had done that I thought was wrong. His laughter definitely stopped me in my tracks. Then he just said tetras have a year life expectancy. Having salt water for so many years this just totally shocked me. Life is funny.

 

[flourishofmediocrity]

No and I would feel sad for anyone that believed that. The fact that many people don't need to QT no longer means there is a way that can be learned where the tank disasters that are so common can be avoided.

It just means certain people get lucky now.

I had my tank disasters with a 10 gallon tank with a few FW livebearers in it a long long time ago. What I learned then has benefitted me for more than 50 years now.

You missed the earlier exchange. This is not about belief if QT works or not. The question was if we did experimentation, or some huge lab verified beyond a doubt ( or whatever would be needed to convince you that this was a fact ) would you QT or not?

 

[flourishofmediocrity]

Probably, and now you put it that way sure I would QT however let’s be real - These statistics aren’t 100% true. I don’t QT because I don’t like throwing extra stress on the fish, I have 1 thin slime coated fish (2 if the CBB or Angel has a thin slime coat) so I take that risk and always buy from the same LFS because they sometimes QT every so often (I think once a month).

The question is hypothetical only.

 

[ying yang]

My only question is: If this turned out to be true, would you QT?

If this turned out to be true of the original question,on tank I got at moment I wouldnt remove all fish and fallow the tank as I read quite a few posts where fallowing the tank failed and fish re-caught same or similar diesese/parasites even though qt and done it according to current disease protocals ( whether the person failed to do something properley or not idk as im not them ) and as it be another year or 2 before I set up a new tank minumum I would see the progression of my first ever reef tank which is only 9 months old and see how it progressed and do alot more research on diesese/ parasites then make an informed decision if qt the next lot of fish in the new tank but would be more possibility for me to qt the new fish for new tank ,but as it took me 5 years from buying my tank and 90% equipment needed to start my tank I had 5 extra years of researching as much as I could regarding as much as I could research about reef tanks and I went from the thinking of medicate qt all fish and qt/ observe all inverts/ corals in seperate tank for bugs etc to the decision of not qt my fish or inverts

So if was true would it make me qt my existing fish or new fish idk to be perfectly honest but I would definately research more and see how my tank now acted and behaved and see if had any losses and make my decision from there
But again of someone making thread after thread saying such high % of fish will be lost and following it up with in 2022 we will lose even more fish because don't qt/ diesese thread so we must as hobbiest stop this or we shouldn't be allowed to have fish,then new reefers should have the information on whether the statement is true or not so what better way than getting the experiences of reefers who had tanks for varying lengths if time then they got more insight into what they will decide, and if most people said they have had huge losses to diesese/ parasites in first 8 months then 100% if a new reefer started a thread asking if they should qt or not then I would say I started a thread and the overwhelming majority of replys stated had huge losses and direct them to this thread to read and see for themselves and would tell them Jay's current diesese protocol and tell them there is higher % chance they will lose fish to diesese/ parasites if dont qt,but would add its their choice what they do as I don't believe should try force my ways onto anyone,
But again I don't tell people the way I come to my understanding on how to keep my reef tank is the best way or the only way as that's not true,but if someone asks me what I do,I will tell them and tell them reasons for doing it and add that I'm new to reefing at 9 months then they decide ,aw and often in threads I tag others who more experienced in hopes will give more or better advice as I know im new and inexperienced ^_^

Edit: to say again,I got nothing against qt as I have a seperate tank running for longer than my dt and if need medicate I can,also got a internal sponge filter in my sump incase need pull all fish out if dt and medicate all in a empty 3 foot tank if needs arrise

 

[HuduVudu]

You missed the earlier exchange. This is not about belief if QT works or not. The question was if we did experimentation, or some huge lab verified beyond a doubt ( or whatever would be needed to convince you that this was a fact ) would you QT or not?

I think that the question if I am reading right is "Would you change your mind".

Not sure that this is a good question. I think that almost everyone would change their mind for some reason or another. Right or wrong I think everyone would. What those reasons would be will be different for everyone, and more importantly they may or may not be based on verifiable evidence.

So the way that I take the post (not that you were doing this from malice is). "Are you stuborn?"

I think this is bad approach because no one will admit to that even if they are.

 

[Big Smelly fish]

I don't have a QT so I will not.

How ever I am lucky to have a great relationship with a LFS that lets me hold them, especially a more expensive fish for 2-3 weeks. I stop in and observe it, watch it eat and so forth. All maybe can not do that. I am lucky I guess and that is a real value my LFS

I remember them well. Slate bottom

I also have a great lfs I buy from and no one else when it comes to fish. Get most coral from them also. I don’t buy fish online. I don’t trust them and shipping these daycare iffy. I will an occasional coral.
I have never set a a qt and also don’t do acclimating other then temp. Stress is probably more responsible for lost then disease.

 

[Goaway]

If this were a puppy instead of fish and there was an 80% chance the puppy would die and kill your other dogs if you didn't QT it, would you QT the puppy?

Easier to spot a sick puppy than a sick fish. Fish and birds hide illness very easy, some to the point of no return. Example uronema in fish. By time you see uronema. It's too late.

A much longer conversation when it comes to birds. New birds need to be kept away from the flock for a month+. A very strict observation time. I wont get into details.