is quarantining necessary?

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Seneca

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my guess is that much of your 'live rock' is 'dead rock' after months in copper

There is a well established biofilter and living macro algae. So although many microfauna didn't make it, your statement is factually incorrect.

- or you're just trying to create resistant parasites - just like people accuse LFS of doing.

Considering the live rock came from a parasite free system, with now two 90+ day plus fishless fallow periods in full therapeutic copper concentration that seems rather unlikely. There is of course a risk a new fish brings in already copper resistant parasites, but if they can survive full therapeutic copper it's already too late anyway.
There are reasons for QT protocols without Live rock.

Yes. Mainly because rock binds copper making it difficult to maintain consistent levels. This is not a problem once the rock is at steady state with the water, but this takes time. Secondarily, an established biofilter will break down many other medications.

Knowing these things allows one to account for them.

They have been studied - researched - and the best thing

I understand the research involved. Do you?

if you're going to use drugs make sure you jknow how much you're dosing.

It's indeed important to not use drugs that are degraded in the presence of an established biofilter that are degraded by an established biofilter. Copper is not one of these medications. Alternative treatment modalities are required for other medications such as food binding or treating in another tank after or before copper treatment.

my guess is you're not doing anything as compared to drop into the tank and hope, - with he risk of resistant organisms. ???

This is obviously baseless. I treat in full therapeutic copper for 30+ days with general cure given bound to food during this time and an observation period in a copper free tank afterwards.

As is obvious to most in this hobby, existing quarantine protocols, though very useful, are very far from optimized. They aren't going to get better if no one even tinkers around the edges; which is all this is.
 

code4

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Just my personal opinion, I like the idea of putting fish into a tank that is established. Some of us have a bad track record with established methods of quarantine. Tank transfer methods and the like. I use CP with an aged filter most times. I have two regal angels that I put into a tank that had been set up for over a year. Left all my plastic decorations in for them. And added CP. I am a very patient person. They stayed in there for months. In my opinion copper could work the same way. My angels have been with me 3 years now. Just my 2 cents worth but if I wanted to try copper I would use it in an established tank. With a minimum of rocks. Enough to make the new fish not so stressed out. Maybe even look into some non porous decorations that would serve the same purpose. Not an expert. But over 12 years worth of trying to not kill my pets
 

MnFish1

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There is a well established biofilter and living macro algae. So although many microfauna didn't make it, your statement is factually incorrect.



Considering the live rock came from a parasite free system, with now two 90+ day plus fishless fallow periods in full therapeutic copper concentration that seems rather unlikely. There is of course a risk a new fish brings in already copper resistant parasites, but if they can survive full therapeutic copper it's already too late anyway.


Yes. Mainly because rock binds copper making it difficult to maintain consistent levels. This is not a problem once the rock is at steady state with the water, but this takes time. Secondarily, an established biofilter will break down many other medications.

Knowing these things allows one to account for them.



I understand the research involved. Do you?



It's indeed important to not use drugs that are degraded in the presence of an established biofilter that are degraded by an established biofilter. Copper is not one of these medications. Alternative treatment modalities are required for other medications such as food binding or treating in another tank after or before copper treatment.



This is obviously baseless. I treat in full therapeutic copper for 30+ days with general cure given bound to food during this time and an observation period in a copper free tank afterwards.

As is obvious to most in this hobby, existing quarantine protocols, though very useful, are very far from optimized. They aren't going to get better if no one even tinkers around the edges; which is all this is.
copper inhibits/kills nitrifiers. that seems to ba a fact. since most of the rock is supposedly adsorbing copper - according to what you said the bacteria on the rock is probably dead - or - the science is wrong
 
Maxout

Seneca

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copper inhibits/kills nitrifiers. that seems to ba a fact. since most of the rock is supposedly adsorbing copper - according to what you said the bacteria on the rock is probably dead

Although it may be true in the most trivial sense that some nitrifiers are inhibited by relevant copper concentrations, this only means it may take a little more time to establish enough nitrifiers in a tank treated with copper. A seeded sponge will work immediately in a copper treated environment and is part of standard qt protocols. The nitrifiers continue to function just fine.

- or - the science is wrong

Science is never right or wrong as science is a method not a result. However the empirical data is clear that nitrifiers do not all die in copper treated water. This is not at all controversial.
 

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