is quarantining necessary?

[Paul B]

LOL Greybeard the name fits you. I like it. I used to have a beard in the 70s. I grew it as soon as I got home from Nam. It started turning red and I shaved it off. I am sure today it also would be white. :cool:



About $300.00 copperbands, I also would buy one but I doubt you and me buying $300.00 fish will keep those guys in business. But I agree with you.

Please tell us you're joking? No way you could think having tiny piranhas (Ich) feeding on your fish is a good thing.

R33fDaddy, I see you haven't been here long. Nice to meet you and yes, I want ich in my tank and no, they are not feeding on my fish not even my 30 year old fish. :p

They are the reason my tank was 50 years old this month. ;)

 

[R33fDaddy]

LOL Greybeard the name fits you. I like it. I used to have a beard in the 70s. I grew it as soon as I got home from Nam. It started turning red and I shaved it off. I am sure today it also would be white. :cool:



About $300.00 copperbands, I also would buy one but I doubt you and me buying $300.00 fish will keep those guys in business. But I agree with you.


R33fDaddy, I see you haven't been here long. Nice to meet you and yes, I want ich in my tank and no, they are not feeding on my fish not even my 30 year old fish. :p

They are the reason my tank was 50 years old this month. ;)

What kind of fish do you have if I may ask?

I don't believe Ich should be present in any reef tank as it limits the fish you can keep. Also those fish have to feel those parasites eating away at them, even if they survive it. I guess if you keep fish with a really thick slime coat that it would be doable, even then why not just get rid of it?

 

[Jekyl]

What kind of fish do you have if I may ask?

I don't believe Ich should be present in any reef tank as it limits the fish you can keep. Also those fish have to feel those parasites eating away at them, even if they survive it. I guess if you keep fish with a really thick slime coat that it would be doable, even then why not just get rid of it?

I have a yellow tang, clowns, spotted goby, mandarin, lawnmower, damsels and a flame angel. I'll see a few white specks every now and then. They fall off and the fish don't show any signs of caring.

 

[R33fDaddy]

Now now now, I never claimed magic. I am stating that if you have a box with water in it, there is probably Ich contained within that water. Just the same as the nitrifying bacteria, you don't need to introduce it, it is just there, as part of nature. Can you introduce fish and greatly expand the existing population, absolutely!

To think that we as fish keepers can completely prevent a natural occurrence from happening within our tanks is optimistic at best, hubristic at worst.

My experience is different than yours, as minor Ich outbreaks have been tied to stress events within the tanks I have owned over the years. When I can see it as a repeatable thing, sorry to say, to me it is true. In my tanks, following stress events (power outages, heater failures, massive changes to a scape, even lighting changes) have always been followed with the appearance of Ich on a couple of my fish (at least), and it is usually gone in a couple of days. No I am not misidentifying Ich either.

Yes I have attempted the Fallow method, no success there, others have and had success, awesome. I can only speak from my own experiences, the testing that I have done, and my observations. (which is why I tend to not speak in absolutes)

Ich has always been in your tank, it doesn't suddenly appear because your fish are stressed. It's just that when your fish are stressed they now can't fight off the Ich Parasites that rapidly then multiple, bury themselves inside the gills and kill your fish.

 

[R33fDaddy]

I have a yellow tang, clowns, spotted goby, mandarin, lawnmower, damsels and a flame angel. I'll see a few white specks every now and then. They fall off and the fish don't show any signs of caring.

Trust me they care and why wouldn't you want to get rid of it instead of having your fish occasionally being eaten by Ich? Those Tangs will definitely not keep surving the Ich outbreak. Just treat it now while your pets are still alive.

 

[Jekyl]

What I can be sure of is that all of the people telling you how bad ich is, don't have a tank as old as @Paul B

 

[Jekyl]

Trust me they care and why wouldn't you want to get rid of it instead of having your fish occasionally being eaten by Ich? Those Tangs will definitely not keep surving the Ich outbreak. Just treat it now while your pets are still alive.

All of my fish are coming up on 2 years old. There's no way I'm pulling them from their happy environment and blasting them with meds for something that isn't an issue.

 

[R33fDaddy]

All of my fish are coming up on 2 years old. There's no way I'm pulling them from their happy environment and blasting them with meds for something that isn't an issue.

Makes sad, hopefully it works out for and those fish.

 

[Jekyl]

Makes sad, hopefully it works out for and those fish.

All of my fish are eating well and my clowns spawn regularly. I don't think their situation could get much better. Removing them from the system and giving them a semi toxic treatment for a month definitely won't be an upgrade.

 

[Wasabiroot]

the method has acknowledged flaws even when ran ideally, but they win the % game to the point zoos use the method to run million dollar displays

Bingo. Not being error proof doesn't mean it's still not the best practice.

 

[Paul B]

R33fDaddy, I have a copperband, (my last one was 10 years old) a long nose butterfly, a hippo tang, (last one was also 10) Janss pipefish, pair of Bangai Cardinals, Watchman gobies, bluestripe pipefish, mandarins, ruby red dragonettes, fireclowns (30 years old) and about 20 other fish.

Most of my fish are spawning and they die of old age, unless they jump out. I have not used a fish medication since the early 70s. But this has nothing to do with this thread so I don't want to go off on a tangent. You can search my name and find all the weird things I do that you won't agree with. :cool:

 

[tc3driver]

Ich has always been in your tank, it doesn't suddenly appear because your fish are stressed. It's just that when your fish are stressed they now can't fight off the Ich Parasites that rapidly then multiple, bury themselves inside the gills and kill your fish.

That is what I am saying... Ich is in the tank, however it doesn't really show itself, at least in the tanks I have owned, until there is a stress event. Something that makes the fish more susceptible to disease in general. Ich is usually the first thing that pops up... I never said that Ick was magically transported to the tank when the fish are stressed, only that is when I notice that the fish have the Ich complication.

 

[Brady4000]

Necessary: No.
Purposeful: Yes.
I lost a goby in QT, never showed signs of sickness or parasites. I don’t think he would say it was necessary.

 

[KrisReef]

So you're saying a freshly started tank with water and dry rock will suddenly have ich in the water? Just think about that. That doesn't make sense. You would have to had introduced ich wether by other live rock from another system or LFS, inverts, corals, or fish to have ich in your tank. I can assure you my tank is ich-free as I've qurantined all fish, corals, and inverts before going into my tank. Yes it is possible to have an ich-free tank.

Maybe it appears to be ich free because the occurrence of ich is so low as to be undetachable.

The problem (for sake of discussion-Please :) ) is that just because a deadly outbreak of any pathogen (ich or other) isn't happening does not mean that the disease causing agent is not present in the water. Assuming that TTM worked because you don't see ich (in full bloom) is an assumption.

The discussion by Paul assumes that the ich is present in all tanks but only shows up during times of stress. A carefully managed tank may never have enough 'stress' to cause the fishes immune systems to weaken so that the infection can get bad enough to be seen, or become a cause of death or sublethal concern.

I wore a mask all last year and had zero colds. I was not in QT, I was in a well managed system.

I got a vaccination last week and got crazy ill. The cure gave me the disease that I have already had before. I recognized the symptoms, it made me extra grouchy and argumentative. should I delete this post?

(I really like this thread. I hope my stupid comment doesn't ruin your day. ) HA!

 

[Brady4000]

I wore a mask all last year and had zero colds. I was not in QT, I was in a well managed system.

 

[Jekyl]

Maybe it appears to be ich free because the occurrence of ich is so low as to be undetachable.

The problem (for sake of discussion-Please :) ) is that just because a deadly outbreak of any pathogen (ich or other) isn't happening does not mean that the disease causing agent is not present in the water. Assuming that TTM worked because you don't see ich (in full bloom) is an assumption.

The discussion by Paul assumes that the ich is present in all tanks but only shows up during times of stress. A carefully managed tank may never have enough 'stress' to cause the fishes immune systems to weaken so that the infection can get bad enough to be seen, or become a cause of death or sublethal concern.

I wore a mask all last year and had zero colds. I was not in QT, I was in a well managed system.

I got a vaccination last week and got crazy ill. The cure gave me the disease that I have already had before. I recognized the symptoms, it made me extra grouchy and argumentative. should I delete this post?

(I really like this thread. I hope my stupid comment doesn't ruin your day. ) HA!

Blasphemy!

 

[Tamberav]

I did ich management for like 13 years but recently had a favorite clownfish get sick with ich (she was spawning and I have had her 6-7 years). Clownfish are resistant but a starkii damsel was stressing her out and likely something else was also going on. The potters angel would also always get ich on the fins when I added any new fish and it would go away. The Tang and butterfly never showed any ich.

I feed live worms every day and LRS and I also have fresh clams. My dry rock is very live as its 13 years old now and seeded by gulf live rock and KPA. It is covered in sponges and worms and life.

I recently (few months ago) decided to try a different path, I removed all fish, went fallow 45 days and used hybrid TTM on the fish (so no harsh medications) and returned them to the DT. I now have a coral QT and QT everything wet. This has had the bonus of preventing aptasia and bryopsis finding its way into the DT as these things showed up on the frag plug in the QT tank.

It has only been a few months but really happy with the outcome so far. I doubt I will ever have a 50 yr old tank.. whenever I move, I often start over with new fish (I keep the rock). I do have what appears to be very healthy fish and no more outbreaks during times of stress. They are quarantined but also fed Paul B style.

I ended up doing this blended method as it was what I was comfortable with (I avoid copper but I know many do use it successfully). I think each person has to decide what is best for them and their tank.

 

[KrisReef]

White worms and clams top the list

You forgot to mention that Paul collects natural sea water and grabs a 5 gallon bucket of fresh mud that he dumps into the DT so that he has something to clean out at the next water change. :)

@Paul B :)

 

[Paul B]

The discussion by Paul assumes that the ich is present in all tanks but only shows up during times of stress.

Actually this isn't exactly true. You can have an ich free tank like Squidward but his tank is about 3 years old. Eventually there may be ich in his tank, or not. It doesn't matter because an ich free tank will never be as healthy as it should be. But I have been saying that for about 40 years and so far, very few people believe me. But the people with the very old, healthy, spawning tanks do. :p

 

[KrisReef]

Actually this isn't exactly true. You can have an ich free tank like Squidward but his tank is about 3 years old. Eventually there may be ich in his tank, or not. It doesn't matter because an ich free tank will never be as healthy as it should be. But I have been saying that for about 40 years and so far, very few people believe me. But the people with the very old, healthy, spawning tanks do. :p

Paul
I'm sorry to have miss understood. Thankyou for setting the record straight!

What we need in this thread is a super model link?

(Happy Brothers Day?)