is quarantining necessary?

[Paul B]

Those are not exactly my kind of Supermodel.

 

[NeonRabbit221B]

but also fed Paul B style

But one thing to consider is you can't exactly feed them live foods such as clams unless you... kill the clam? Idk but I like this method and when I love I might consider TTM myself. Appreciate the post!

 

[Tamberav]

But one thing to consider is you can't exactly feed them live foods such as clams unless you... kill the clam? Idk but I like this method and when I love I might consider TTM myself. Appreciate the post!

You put the clams in the freezer. It will kill parasites, but probably not bacteria or viruses. I mean how else do you keep them from going bad and stinking your fridge up unless you buy just a few at a time. They are fresh frozen and not the same as the clam on the half shell you can buy.

Paul freezes them.. it's how I read about it. One of his posts about freezing and shaving it into paper slices.

 

[NeonRabbit221B]

You put the clams in the freezer. It will kill parasites, but probably not bacteria or viruses. I mean how else do you keep them from going bad and stinking your fridge up unless you buy just a few at a time. They are fresh frozen and not the same as the clam on the half shell you can buy.

Paul freezes them.. it's how I read about it. One of his posts about freezing and shaving it into paper slices.

I always throw in the first few alive. It was a dumb question because I end up freezing the rest the day after I get them.

 

[Paul B]

I eat them almost every week. Live.

 

[HB AL]

No need if you get your fish from a great lfs. Ive never ran a quarantine tank in 35+ years but there are keys to succeeding if you go this route.

 

[KrisReef]

Those are not exactly my kind of Supermodel.

Nor mine, but I'm celebrating diversity as that is kind of a theme in live rock reef ecosystems, no?

?

 

[Iggy305]

I mentioned earlier I QT everything that goes in my tank. I have my process and it’s what works for me. With that said when comes to illness Ich isn’t my biggest concern. Not that it can’t kill your fish if left unchecked, but of all the different bacteria’s, parasites, and viruses out there it’s probably the easiest to spot and easiest to treat if need be. IMO anyways.

 

[reef pirate]

I know there are tons of opinions on quarantining and not quarantining saltwater fish, but i wonder if it is really necessary to quarantine. I would rather not, because im on a tight budget, but if its absolutely necessary, i'll go for it. Thanks for your help

You don't need much to quarentine depending on fish size ECT....I only have a 10 gallon.. filter, heater...PCV for fish to hide in...small light...didn't quarentine for 20 years and had one incident of Black Velvet and swore I would only quarentine moving forward...

 

[Squidward]

What I can be sure of is that all of the people telling you how bad ich is, don't have a tank as old as @Paul B

Paul also doesn't keep 10 tangs plus including Achilles or Powder Blues.

 

[Squidward]

Maybe it appears to be ich free because the occurrence of ich is so low as to be undetachable.

The problem (for sake of discussion-Please ) is that just because a deadly outbreak of any pathogen (ich or other) isn't happening does not mean that the disease causing agent is not present in the water. Assuming that TTM worked because you don't see ich (in full bloom) is an assumption.

The discussion by Paul assumes that the ich is present in all tanks but only shows up during times of stress. A carefully managed tank may never have enough 'stress' to cause the fishes immune systems to weaken so that the infection can get bad enough to be seen, or become a cause of death or sublethal concern.

I wore a mask all last year and had zero colds. I was not in QT, I was in a well managed system.

I got a vaccination last week and got crazy ill. The cure gave me the disease that I have already had before. I recognized the symptoms, it made me extra grouchy and argumentative. should I delete this post?

(I really like this thread. I hope my stupid comment doesn't ruin your day. ) HA!

No. It's ich free because I've eliminated ich from the fish doing TTM. All of my fish went through TTM. All of my inverts and corals went through qurantine. I will never have to worry about ich appearing one day cause I was responsible and thorough enough to not let it enter my display. 11 Tangs with plenty of fights and chasing and stress... yet never seen ich.

 

[Paul B]

Paul also doesn't keep 10 tangs plus including Achilles or Powder Blues.

Actually Paul used to keep all sorts of tangs for decades but he got bored of them from all the SCUBA diving he did when he realized they are the most common fish on the reef and not very interesting.
As soon as you dive into a tropical sea the first thing you see is 10,000,000 tangs.

Now I only have a hippo tang as I find them slightly more interesting than achilles or powder blue tangs. I much prefer butterflies like copperbands and long noses as well as pipefish which I find the most interesting and much more rare on a reef.

But I did manage to keep them over 10 years. Yours are still only with you for 2 years so you have a while to go to call that a success. But I hope they live forever. Maybe you will be the first one to keep a quaranteened fish long enough for it to die of old age without getting sick.

A healthy fish like a healthy human is immune to most of the pathogens they normally encounter every day.
Very few people actually study how the immune system of a fish works and it doesn't work like ours.

A healthy fish depends on meeting pathogens every day and eating parasites with almost every meal. There is a reason there are no old quarantined tanks. But we shall see what happens in the future of this hobby as more and more people actually learn about the biology of fish so they can keep them for their lifespan with no silly disease problems rather than calling it a success when a fish such as a tang only lives for 7 or 8 years.

I like rarer or odder fish. How many of these fish do you see every day?



















How many fish do you see spawning in a sterile tank?











How many 30 year old fish do you see spawning in a quarantined tank?





Keeping tangs is not the epitome of fish keeping as many old time aquarists got tired of them for the reasons I mentioned. To common and to boreing.
My interest in the hobby changed and evolved over the 60+ years I have been keeping fish. I don't just want to keep them. I want to get into their miniscule heads. Study them, get them to spawn and keep they alive and happy for their full lifespan as healthy and natural as they were in the sea with no extraneous, un natural "help" from me.

 

[MnFish1]

but still continue qt and fallow while adding live rocks until better means have been funded and shown by someone else is my recommend

What does 'QT' mean. Observation and treat if necessary? Prophylactic treatment with x, or x, y, and z? Etc. Most people (if you believe the polls here - multiple) do not quarantine at all). Before discussing 'QT' - to me its important to define 'what QT is'.

The Fish Disease forum has a lot of posts IMHO, not because disease is rampant in the supply chain, etc etc - but because lots of people have reef tanks and they post if they have a problem. There is no 'my tank is doing fine and I don't QT forum'. But the closest thing to that is the polls that say most people don't quarantine.

Proper QT is difficult to do correctly - especially for a 'beginner'. I don't know how to quantitate it - but my guess is that the reason most people don't QT is because they have had more success then when they have QT.

Another poster mentioned not accepting diseased fish. I think this is exactly correct. The LFS I go to does not sell 'sick fish', and they aren't overly expensive. The do their own observation quarantine and treat if necessary. They have an entire room devoted to this. Since I have used their store, I have not had a sick fish. If you read a lot of the posts here, its clear that there are multiple methods that are equally successful.

 

[MnFish1]

start incorporating the live rock and feed component, skipping the feed component is like paying for a personal trainer and then not altering one's diet...a human needs the diet component to be healthy and so do fish, makes send

but still continue qt and fallow while adding live rocks until better means have been funded and shown by someone else is my recommend

I think a common misconception (to me anyway) is 'live rock' and 'dead rock'. Within months 'dry rock' becomes 'live rock'. Rock is rock. every niche in that rock will be filled with something. IMHO the problem with dry rock is taking a 100 gallon tank, adding 4 frags and a huge surface area of 'dead space'. Then people wonder why they have Dinos or algae. There are very few people who don't have to clean their glass at some point'. Why would algae, etc not grow on bare rock. The old way to do it is to take 'base rock' which was basically dead, and then cover it all with either corals or pieces of expensive 'live rock'. From a disease perspective, I do not see how 'live rock' prevents disease. There are plenty of tanks out there with no corals and only 'fish' that do fine.

 

[MnFish1]

Since all the big names are in here... If I have just Inverts, LR, Live Sand, and nothing else... for 90 days...and I QT my incoming fish using the TTM...I should have a near (or actual) zero chance of getting ich in there?

If you have inverts, LR, Live sand and nothing else, I would not keep them for 90 days. I would do whatever you want to do (TTM, etc) - and put them in the tank. Why wait 90 days?

 

[MnFish1]

No. It's ich free because I've eliminated ich from the fish doing TTM. All of my fish went through TTM. All of my inverts and corals went through qurantine. I will never have to worry about ich appearing one day cause I was responsible and thorough enough to not let it enter my display. 11 Tangs with plenty of fights and chasing and stress... yet never seen ich.

I'm curious - what would you do about velvet? or Brook or uronema.

 

[Siberwulf]

If you have inverts, LR, Live sand and nothing else, I would not keep them for 90 days. I would do whatever you want to do (TTM, etc) - and put them in the tank. Why wait 90 days?

Sorry, I meant my tank is running with just the inverts, since I'm not able to put fish in there. They'll be there a total of 90 days without a fish. Was just wanting to verify that if THEY came with ich on them, it should die out by the time my fish are in the DT after QT.

 

[ca1ore]

What does 'QT' mean. Observation and treat if necessary? Prophylactic treatment with x, or x, y, and z? Etc. Most people (if you believe the polls here - multiple) do not quarantine at all). Before discussing 'QT' - to me its important to define 'what QT is'.

Yup! QT simply means a period/place of isolation

Couldn't bring myself to read all 95 posts ..... I'd wager the same predictable points made in every other 'should I QT thread'.

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

The Fish Disease forum has a lot of posts IMHO, not because disease is rampant in the supply chain, etc etc - but because lots of people have reef tanks and they post if they have a problem.

Is that to say that you don't believe that the supply chain is in fact loaded with diseased fish?

Knowing that 80% of fish will die before hitting the LFS, I thought it was something we just accepted as fact. Wild caught fish bring their diseases into a very new and stressful environment (the distribution supply chain) which helps it get into the system of other fish with lowered immune capacity.

 

[MnFish1]

Sorry, I meant my tank is running with just the inverts, since I'm not able to put fish in there. They'll be there a total of 90 days without a fish. Was just wanting to verify that if THEY came with ich on them, it should die out by the time my fish are in the DT after QT.

I would say 'yes'