Is this Ich?

[cperry7467]

Picked up an aiptasia eating filefish a couple of weeks ago and noticed white spots so I started treatment in copper power. It's been 11 days at therapeutic levels but what I believe are trophonts are still visible without much improvement making me second guess if this is ich. I haven't dealt with fish disease or treatment at all previously so this could just be normal. My copper levels are staying between 2.0-2.5 using a hanna to test. It's eating well and active, breathing fine, hasn't flashed at all.

Help me with a sanity check here. Is this Ich? Is it normal to still see the spots for this long? If so, when will the spots disappear?

 

[Uncle99]

Looks like advanced stage ick to me.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Picked up an aiptasia eating filefish a couple of weeks ago and noticed white spots so I started treatment in copper power. It's been 11 days at therapeutic levels but what I believe are trophonts are still visible without much improvement making me second guess if this is ich. I haven't dealt with fish disease or treatment at all previously so this could just be normal. My copper levels are staying between 2.0-2.5 using a hanna to test. It's eating well and active, breathing fine, hasn't flashed at all.

Help me with a sanity check here. Is this Ich? Is it normal to still see the spots for this long? If so, when will the spots disappear?

Indeed ich and fish and any others in with it will have to be placed in a separate treatment tank and treated with coppersafe or copper power at 2.25ppm monitored with a Hanna brand copper test kir
Display tank will need to be left without fish for 6-8 weeks to allow parasites to die off without a host fish. Corals and inverts can remain in display tank

 

[cperry7467]

I appreciate the confirmation of ich, at least I know I'm treating the right thing.

Just to clarify, he's not in the display. He went straight into a hospital tank and I started dosing copper power over a few days to bring it up to 2-2.5. I'm not looking for treatment advice currently, that seems fairly straightforward to follow.

My question is, he's been in copper at 2+ for 11 days and that's a picture from today with a heavy amount of spots still. It hasn't really gotten worse since I started treatment but it hasn't gotten better either. After 11 days is that normal? I figured by now there should have been a decent reduction in spots as the trophonts drop off to the bottom. Everything I read said they attach for 4-9 days so I was expecting some improvements.

 

[Marine Betta]

I appreciate the confirmation of ich, at least I know I'm treating the right thing.

Just to clarify, he's not in the display. He went straight into a hospital tank and I started dosing copper power over a few days to bring it up to 2-2.5. I'm not looking for treatment advice currently, that seems fairly straightforward to follow.

My question is, he's been in copper at 2+ for 11 days and that's a picture from today with a heavy amount of spots still. It hasn't really gotten worse since I started treatment but it hasn't gotten better either. After 11 days is that normal? I figured by now there should have been a decent reduction in spots as the trophonts drop off to the bottom. Everything I read said they attach for 4-9 days so I was expecting some improvements.

How many days has the copper been at 2.25-2.5? Treatment for ich outbreaks only works once this concentration is reached. The clock for 30 days starts running once that concentration is reached and restarts if it drops below this. That’s why it’s recommended to bring the concentration of copper to 2.25-2.5 ppm as soon as possible when treating with copper power or coppersafe. If he’s eating still, the copper is at 2.25+, and the spots are not getting any worse, he should be fine, but you will want to leave him in qt for the full 30 days from when the copper reached the correct concentration. I would imagine you’ll start seeing the cysts fall off in a couple of days if the concentration of copper is maintained.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I appreciate the confirmation of ich, at least I know I'm treating the right thing.

Just to clarify, he's not in the display. He went straight into a hospital tank and I started dosing copper power over a few days to bring it up to 2-2.5. I'm not looking for treatment advice currently, that seems fairly straightforward to follow.

My question is, he's been in copper at 2+ for 11 days and that's a picture from today with a heavy amount of spots still. It hasn't really gotten worse since I started treatment but it hasn't gotten better either. After 11 days is that normal? I figured by now there should have been a decent reduction in spots as the trophonts drop off to the bottom. Everything I read said they attach for 4-9 days so I was expecting some improvements.

Some of the spots look to be
Mucus and/or Lymphocystis (the ones along the fin edges). These won’t respond to copper, but I bet there is ich in the mix, so treating the full 30 day course is important.

 

[W31Olds]

Seems to me something is wrong here. If your fish is in a QT Tank with new mixed water, I would expect those to be gone or at least shifting from on area of his body to another. How are you maintaining your Copper Level and replenishing evaporation?
@Jay Hemdal

 

[cperry7467]

Seems to me something is wrong here. If your fish is in a QT Tank with new mixed water, I would expect those to be gone or at least shifting from on area of his body to another. How are you maintaining your Copper Level and replenishing evaporation?
@Jay Hemdal

That's what I was thinking too, I don't feel like it's changed at all.

I have the water level marked on the side of the glass and top off with fresh water daily in small amounts to replenish evaporation. I test copper with my Hanna every 1-2 days to validate copper levels, it's stayed above 1.9 the whole time and any time it gets close to 2 I add about .75ml of copper power to the tank which is just 5 gallons. ChatGPT said 1.75-2.25 is the range to keep it, others say 2-2.5 so I have been aiming for 2-2.25. I've done a few 20% water changes and the replacement water I pre-dose with copper, 1.3ml per gallon, before pouring it into the tank. I use the Krakking Corals calculator for dosing amounts which has worked well.

I'm also using Prime every few days just to stretch water changes a little longer. I also initially included a small piece of bio brick from my main tank before I realized the copper kills the bacteria and that was pointless. It's still in there but I assume it's doing nothing to help with cycling, but I assume it's not hurting anything either.

 

[Reefing addict Clay]

Not sure if you got this fish to eat aiptasia but I’ve never had luck with them actually eating enough to notice a difference. Best thing is if it’s only a few it to turn pumps off and before a water change hit them with aiptasia X then after 20min use like a 3/4 inch hose to get a strong suction and suck everything out. The best thing is obviously a berghia nudibranc because they only live by eating aiptasia but only would recommend getting them if it’s a serious issue cause there not that cheap and depending what tank inhabitants you have they will have a expensive snack

 

[W31Olds]

Disregard ChatGPT as that range is too low. I usually run between 2.25 -2.5 and a replenishment rate for water changes in that range also.
Also, Copper does not kill your BioFlilter. It may suppress it a bit but that's it. I run cycled Tanks all the time with Copper and never see Ammonia problems.

 

[cperry7467]

Not sure if you got this fish to eat aiptasia but I’ve never had luck with them actually eating enough to notice a difference. Best thing is if it’s only a few it to turn pumps off and before a water change hit them with aiptasia X then after 20min use like a 3/4 inch hose to get a strong suction and suck everything out. The best thing is obviously a berghia nudibranc because they only live by eating aiptasia but only would recommend getting them if it’s a serious issue cause there not that cheap and depending what tank inhabitants you have they will have a expensive snack

I had one previously that did pretty well keeping them at bay. Never ate all of them but when he died the aiptasia population grew quite a bit so I picked up another. I know people have mixed success. I've tried bergia, aiptasia x, F aiptasia... There's no beating them, just managing.

 

[cperry7467]

Disregard ChatGPT as that range is too low. I usually run between 2.25 -2.5 and a replenishment rate for water changes in that range also.
Also, Copper does not kill your BioFlilter. It may suppress it a bit but that's it. I run cycled Tanks all the time with Copper and never see Ammonia problems.

Good to know about the copper and bacteria. I knew it would kill some bacteria, I just didn't know if it would be enough to keep it cycled or not so I used prime just in case.

I raised it up above 2.25 this morning and I'm thinking I'll monitor and decide in the next week to do a tank transfer or restart the 14 days. I feel like 1.9+ is probably fine based on what I've read that I don't need to start my 14 days over at this point. I've never done this before though so transferring to a clean tank while he has visible spots seems counterintuitive. He'll stay in a holding tank until I'm sure he's clear of it anyway.

 

[resortez]

My personal take on the picture provided, doesn’t quite look like ich, I could be wrong though. Again my personal take, the times I have dealt with ich, the parasite sits separately from each other & can almost be counted individually, it won’t clump up.
The picture, in my view, seems to be clumps of a parasite or some type of growth.
My questions would be if you see any redness anywhere on it’s body??? If fins look chewed up, ripped or unnatural shape????
What also makes me doubt ich, again in my personal experience, heavy ich will has always tended to appear on the eyes & I don’t see ich on the eyes. Just throwing out questions to help deduce what type of infection your filefish might be going through. Good luck

 

[Jay Hemdal]

My personal take on the picture provided, doesn’t quite look like ich, I could be wrong though. Again my personal take, the times I have dealt with ich, the parasite sits separately from each other & can almost be counted individually, it won’t clump up.
The picture, in my view, seems to be clumps of a parasite or some type of growth.
My questions would be if you see any redness anywhere on it’s body??? If fins look chewed up, ripped or unnatural shape????
What also makes me doubt ich, again in my personal experience, heavy ich will has always tended to appear on the eyes & I don’t see ich on the eyes. Just throwing out questions to help deduce what type of infection your filefish might be going through. Good luck

I agree, I mentioned that this afternoon - not all of the spots are ich. That makes an accurate diagnosis difficult, but in the end, best to treat for ich….

 

[cperry7467]

Any recommendations to add to my treatment plan that can go with the copper to treat anything else it could be?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Any recommendations to add to my treatment plan that can go with the copper to treat anything else it could be?

If some of the spots are Lymphocystis or Mucus plugs, those won't require any treatment, they will go away on their own. However, it is possible/probable that some of the spots are ich. In fact, mucus plugs can be caused by ich....