Lanthanum Drip ROUND 2 fight. lol

[Mike in CT]

I feel really bad that you lost all your fish. That's just horrible. So sorry!

My bet is that there is a stark difference in the chemicals used in this formulation as opposed to those that are specifically formulated for reef tanks.
Albeit, LC is LC, but the concentration and any other chemicals used to stabilize the solution or otherwise are likely significantly different. Call me crazy, but that seems to be the only difference here. My bet is that there is a chemical or something that is materially different in the makeup of SeaKlear as opposed to Phosphat-e or other reef safe phosphate removers. It clearly says, pool use... just pointing out the obvious.
I have used Phosphat-e without issue - into filter sock, into skimmer compartment, and even into return chamber - without any ill effects. I have 6 tangs, including a yellow and gem, and they all don't care, one way or another.
That's not saying "it can't happen to you cause it didn't happen to me", it's just calling out that something has got to be different in what you're putting into the tank as opposed to the others that don't seem to have any issues with LC.

All good points. Even if all these companies are getting the pure LC from the same place does not mean they handle it the same way during production. Are they mixing it in vats have also been used for other chemicals?
Do they add chemicals to help it work better or last longer? These are just examples and we may never know.

 

[ddc0715]

ok interesting update.. as you know my fish are dead only 2 remain in the tank, a yellowtail damsel aka little ******* (the first fish we ever bought), and an engineer goby. corals look great to.

I have not fed this tank for two days other than the nightly auto-feedings of AB+ and oyster feast.

Here's my point---- my phos was at .09 on Tuesday afternoon, fish died Tuesday during the night, I CSI'ED the crime scene and the phos tested at .17 on Wednesday morning.

I have just let the tank alone since (kinda feeling defeated ) then....today I just tested the phos now it's at .21... I MEAN Its still climbing. ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????? is it the ab+ or the oyster feast. thats the only thing going into my tank now?
any idea why my phos is back to my original starting point of .22 with no feeding?

so here's my new plan since i am knee-deep in this phos issue.

1. I have started another drip at 5 MLS per 1500mls of rodi at a rate of 1 drop per 10 seconds into a 1-micron sock. i mean why not.

2. I am going to stop the dosing of AB+ tonight. don't worry I have been randomly dosing acro power for a few weeks now, so cutting the tank off of ab+ won't be a big deal I hope...... lol. been wanting to switch to acro power for a while now anyway. why? i have been wondering about AB+ for some time, but have never caught it in the act of committing a crime. hahahahahaha.

3. retest phos tomorrow to determine the impact that the ---5 MLS per 1500mls of rodi at a rate of 1 drop per 10 seconds and no ab+ dosing had on the tank...

4. if phos is lower than AB+ IS A PHOS MONSTER. If not I will repeat all the above but cut of the oyster feast at that point.

i should have some new info for everyone in the next day or two. this hobby is the bomb. LOVE IT.

oh and can someone tell me the difference in lc products? I can not find many sds sheets on most products and the ones that I did all said the only ingredient was LC.... I mean is lc in pool product different from lc in reef products? other than the concentration level. i say no. but what do I know. despite my methodical approach I still killed all my fish. It's got to be human error right?

 

[Pistondog]

Sorry about the fish.
As you may know, po4 binds to rock and substrate in equilibrium with the water po4 level. If you lower the water po4 concentration, the rocks will give off po4 until the rocks and water are again at equilibrium.
Gfo does the same thing, it will give off po4 I f the water level,po4 is reduced. Which is why you remove gfo prior to running lc.

 

[ddc0715]

so this means that i can lower the po4 levels briefly, but whatever amount of phos that's in the rocks and sand will release to find balance in the water.

if this is correct then I may be running an LC drip multiple times in an attempt to remove the phos from the rocks and sand as well. simply because the po4 will leech out into the water to stabilize = a low phos back to high phos roller coaster.

i have had a phos problem for about two years. this may take some time to reduce.

 

[Snoopy 67]

I stopped GFO after almost all my corals died & a Blue sponge went alien on me & grew everywhere.
When I finally cleaned almost every rock of sponge I started Lanthanum as po4 was near 5, - 1,2,3,4, 5.
Dosed all @ once slowly into a return section emptying through filter material I used PhosBan L for a while then Phos RX.
The RX does a slightly better job @ reduction & I'm near 1 now. I know all those pellets are my downfall.

 

[Mike in CT]

If I was you, I would ditch the LC you are using since it has already shown to be toxic to your tank, no use putting your remaining fish through any more trauma or adding more of something that killed your fish in your water. At least get another source of LC and see what happens then.

 

[Dennis Cartier]

So sorry about your fish.

I run LaCl 24x7 as I had a large bound reserve of phosphate in my rocks. I was around 1.0 ppm, and have it down to .12, finally. I will probably be taking my reactor offline as soon as I finish the 5G bucket of diluted LaCl as I am on the border where it loses it's effectiveness and just becomes a drag on alkalinity.

You may want to look at my thread for my DIY reactor as a few people have chimed into it with their methods and experiences in running LaCl. LaCl Dosing Reactor (No Socks!)

Dennis

 

[WVNed]

I have used about 4000 ml of Phosban-L diluted as directed without problems.

I have put it into the skimmer, into 30 inch socks and now I just add it into a high flow area of the sump and don't worry about it anymore.

 

[Pico bam]

Quick question: does diluting phosphate remover(Lc) in rodi water keep it diluted? When I mixed up my phosphate-e in saltwater it just fell to the bottom of my dosing container. It was very cloudy on the bottom and crystal clear on the top.

 

[Pistondog]

Quick question: does diluting phosphate remover(Lc) in rodi water keep it diluted? When I mixed up my phosphate-e in saltwater it just fell to the bottom of my dosing container. It was very cloudy on the bottom and crystal clear on the top.

Dilute with rodi.

 

[ddc0715]

I do not mind switching brands of LC but i want to research the options as i did my first choice.. i found alot of warnings for all brands so i went with the bigger bang for my buck..and I can not find any SDS info on the reef brand products. i mean

is all-LC products EQUAL? and if not what's the diff?

I mean silver is silver, gold is gold and MG is MG, and if the info provided on SDS sheets (if found) only lists the single ingredient as mg for example what does it matter which brand you use?

 

[Pistondog]

I do not mind switching brands of LC but i want to research the options as i did my first choice.. i found alot of warnings for all brands so i went with the bigger bang for my buck..and I can not find any SDS info on the reef brand products. i mean

is all-LC products EQUAL? and if not what's the diff?

I mean silver is silver, gold is gold and MG is MG, and if the info provided on SDS sheets (if found) only lists the single ingredient as mg for example what does it matter which brand you use?

Just switched from phosphat-e to phosban L from 2 little fishes. For price and concentration accuracy. Both are made for aquariums. Always dilute and drip into overflow, caught by 5 micron sox.
I always track the reduction, for example 15 ml of phosphat-e reduced po4 0.5 to 0.12ppm. I want to make sure all the lc binds to po4, so it is not overdosed.
Have been happy with 2 little fishes products.

 

[ddc0715]

i guess no one knows the difference between reef phos ( lc) products and other LC products... I guess I will go with a reef product... i will say that reef products are clear in color and the seaklear is yellow,if that even means anything


I just wish I knew why. here is the sds for two fishes and the sds for the seaklear.

 

[Pistondog]

i guess no one knows the difference between reef phos ( lc) products and other LC products... I guess I will go with a reef product... i will say that reef products are clear in color and the seaklear is yellow,if that even means anything


I just wish I knew why. here is the sds for two fishes and the sds for the seaklear.

You've listed ingredients for phosban (gfo), not phosban-l (lc).

Seaklear has not listed all components, just the dangerous components in the context (I assume) of pool use.

 

[ddc0715]

update.. got phos down to .07 (tested last night).. this morning I'm back up to .12.
i will mix up another batch of lc to drip.

this is fun.

 

[ddc0715]

You've listed ingredients for phosban (gfo), not phosban-l (lc).

because i can not find one for phosban-l (lc)

 

[Snoopy 67]

That big 20,000 gallon tank on LI runs about 0.16 & corals grow very well there. The new thinking is phosphates can be run somewhat higher than 0.03 & things are still OK, better than a roller coaster scenario.

 

[Dennis Cartier]

My target range for phosphate is 0.08 to 0.12 ppm. I have ran it lower in the past, but I prefer it a bit higher now. Heck, the effluent from my CaRx comes out 0.03 ppm higher than it went in!

 

[ddc0715]

im happy with .12 just odd that it keeps dropping then spiking back up.... i prefer stable flat line numbers so this up and down is messing with my ocd. hahahahaha

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Quick question: does diluting phosphate remover(Lc) in rodi water keep it diluted? When I mixed up my phosphate-e in saltwater it just fell to the bottom of my dosing container. It was very cloudy on the bottom and crystal clear on the top.

You precipitated lanthanum carbonate. Likely happens in the tank too, but it's much more dilute then so the effect is much less.