Let's talk phosphate levels

[VintageReefer]

Ive noticed no observable difference of 0.2 to 03 pO4. Nana, zip, diddly squat. Stuff grows ok at 0.3.

I’ve gone from .05 to .34 in a day, And back down to .02 in 6 days. No corals affected

I’ve gone from .04 to .98 in a week, no impact in any way

 

[cperry7467]

Just had an interesting situation with my phosphates. I neglected my tank for a while and my phosphates were sitting around .15. I could run GFO and bring it down to .02 for a few days, it would get exhausted and spike back up to .15. Everything I've read leads me to believe it's leaching from my rocks and sand, it's not coming from anything else significant. I also dose Nopox on a dosing pump, around 15-20ml a day on a 180 gallon tank. This has been going on for about 2-3 months, which has been a bit frustrating considering I prefer my phosphates closer to .02. I've gone through a ton of GFO.

Fast forward to this week... Well, I changed out my Nopox bottle and had to reprime the pump, a simple BRS 1.1ml/min pump. I use my Apex to have it run a few minutes a few times a day but to prime I just set it to On and let it run until it's done. Well I guess my apex connection timed out, I swear I flipped it to off but it didn't turn off and I didn't notice. It ran for about 2-3 hours before I saw my low ph and caught it. It probably dosed 120-180ml of Nopox, ouch. I had a massive bacterial bloom and my nitrates and phosphates bottomed out, they were 20 and .15, both to 0. No bueno considering I literally just spent a buttload of money on SBB corals. I hooked up a UV and dosed some brightwell neonitro and neophos a few times over a couple of days. Somehow I made it through with no damage, corals all look good. What's interesting is the leaching finally stopped! Over the past few days my phosphates have been pretty stable between 3-6ppb.

Now sticking with the theme of the original thread, I prefer my phosphate under .1 at least, closer to .02. Anything above that I've seen much slower acro growth. I can even notice my alk consumption/dosing is lower which I directly attribute to the slowed down growth. At one point I was at .2 and even though my colors looked great my growth was very slow. Lowering the phosphates seemed to increase growth rates and I've seen greater alk consumption/dosing which supports what I see.

 

[Garf]

I’ve gone from .05 to .34 in a day, And back down to .02 in 6 days. No corals affected

I’ve gone from .04 to .98 in a week, no impact in any way

Mine stays very consistent, dependant on my sand bag maintenance. Why does yours wobble so much? Not that I'm saying that "wobbling" is bad, I really don't think it matters.

 

[VintageReefer]

Mine stays very consistent, dependant on my sand bag maintenance. Why does yours wobble so much? Not that I'm saying that "wobbling" is bad, I really don't think it matters.

The first time was I made a batch of reef roids and sw and planned to use it over the next few days, then I bumped into my mixing cup and it all spilled in the tank.

Second time was more recent. I tried a new (to me) coral food and switched to a plank feeder with freeze dried and somehow one, or the other, or the combination, spiked me to .96 in a week

 

[Rolliad]

The first time was I made a batch of reef roids and sw and planned to use it over the next few days, then I bumped into my mixing cup and it all spilled in the tank.

Second time was more recent. I tried a new (to me) coral food and switched to a plank feeder with freeze dried and somehow one, or the other, or the combination, spiked me to .96 in a week

So this is a familiar story to me. I've stopped using RR and my Plank Feeder w/ dried food for the most part. Maybe just a little bit from each once every 10 days or so.

 

[sayurasem]

Three year old tank, I’ve fell of the reefing wagon for the past six months. I’ve noticed sps are darker and not as “bright”, also I’ve noticed I’m losing coraline algae because my rocks are covered with detritus. I’ll report back in two weeks to see any difference. I just setup a gfo reactor last night and my goal is to reduce phosphate to 0.20ppm.

 

[Troylee]

In my tank, I’ve noticed that when nitrate and phosphate levels are relatively high (for me, that means around 15-20 ppm NO3 and 0.2 ppm phosphate or higher), including what I’m dosing via my dosing pump and the nutrients already present in the tank, I can push PAR intensity up to over 500 and maintain KH at 9 or higher without any issues.

On the flip side, if nutrient levels drop too low—especially phosphate going below 0.05 ppm—my corals start closing their polyps and may even develop burnt tips if I let it continue for a few days. Nitrate isn’t usually a problem in my tank since I have a lot of tangs in my 120-gallon system, and I also dose a solution of ammonia daily, around 0.2 ppm spread out over 24 hours.

So, I’m guessing the issue mainly comes down to a lack of phosphate for the corals to use during photosynthesis. Whenever this happens, I have to lower the PAR intensity and reduce KH (from KH 9+ to around KH 7-7.5); otherwise, I end up with widespread RTN or STN on the corals.

Interesting.. I’ve got my nutrients way up now and my alk is 10-11 and zero issues.. my tank is halide lit so my par is 600 at the top and not controllable. . I have noticed that my alk consumption has dropped a little bit since I brought my phosphate and nitrate up so high.. just cut my dosing back a little bit myself. Nitrates over 30 and my phosphate is over .2 now.

 

[Miami Reef]

I’ve gone from .05 to .34 in a day, And back down to .02 in 6 days. No corals affected

I’ve gone from .04 to .98 in a week, no impact in any way

Same. I’ve also had alk swings and none of my corals (acros included) ever cared.

Sure, I’d much prefer everything stable, but I think the stability choir is overhyped.

 

[rishma]

I have a couple of LPS that are very dependable canaries in the phosphate mine. If they look deflated or irritated, chances are really good I’ll measure phosphate less than 0.03.

 

[Rolliad]

So I've been testing my phosphate every other day during this and I tested yesterday so I wasn't going to test this morning, but I had this nagging voice in my head telling me to check before I gave the morning dose of PhosBan-L.

...and I'm glad I did. I'm now right in the range I was targeting (0.20 ppm to 0.50 ppm) at a reading of 0.34 ppm. That's the level that I'm looking to maintain, so I'm going to let it ride.

@Randy Holmes-Farley just so you have the info: The leather has perked up this morning and is fully extended again. Also, the nem (Black Widow BTA) who has not had bubble tips since I've had it now has them! They started to bubble up yesterday afternoon. I thought that was interesting.

Full tank parameters as of this morning:

Salinity: 1.025
pH: 8.49
Alk: 11.0
Ca: 460
Mg: 1480
Nitrates: 23.4
Phosphates: 0.34

 

[Gregg @ ADP]

So I've been testing my phosphate every other day during this and I tested yesterday so I wasn't going to test this morning, but I had this nagging voice in my head telling me to check before I gave the morning dose of PhosBan-L.

...and I'm glad I did. I'm now right in the range I was targeting (0.20 ppm to 0.50 ppm) at a reading of 0.34 ppm. That's the level that I'm looking to maintain, so I'm going to let it ride.

@Randy Holmes-Farley just so you have the info: The leather has perked up this morning and is fully extended again. Also, the nem (Black Widow BTA) who has not had bubble tips since I've had it now has them! They started to bubble up yesterday afternoon. I thought that was interesting.

Full tank parameters as of this morning:

Salinity: 1.025
pH: 8.49
Alk: 11.0
Ca: 460
Mg: 1480
Nitrates: 23.4
Phosphates: 0.34

If I could snap my fingers and have a PO4 level that I could maintain without any though or effort, it would be 0.35.

 

[Rolliad]

If I could snap my fingers and have a PO4 level that I could maintain without any though or effort, it would be 0.35.

Well I was north of 3.60 for the better part of the last year so.. :D

 

[Gregg @ ADP]

Well I was north of 3.60 for the better part of the last year so.. :D

Yeah…that’s a touch high.

 

[Rolliad]

Yeah…that’s a touch high.

Just a...smidge. :)

 

[Dom]

Thanks. Please let us know if the drop appears to benefit the anemones. :)

Time to post an update...

Recap:

12/3/24 -
I noticed a generally unhealthy look to my Anemones, specifically, a reduction in size. And upon testing the water quality, I found PO4 to be .48. I incorrectly began dosing distilled white vinegar, which is better suited for reducing NO3.

12/6/24 -
Testing PO4 again, it has dropped to .45. I increased my carbon dosing as I still didn't learn that carbon dosing is better suited for NO3.

12/9/24 -
Testing PO4, it has elevated to .85

12/10/24 -
I installed a reactor and added 1 cup of PhosGuard for 145 gallons of volume. Feeding 2 cubes of brine shrimp, daily.

12/13/24 -
PO4 = .31. Reduced feeding to 1 cube of brine shrimp daily and 1 portion of flake.

12/17/24 -
PO4 has elevated to .36. Eliminated flake food and limited feeding to 1 brine shrimp cube daily.

12/20/24 -
PO4 = .25

12/27/24 -
PO4 = .49. I attribute this rise to the PhosGuard being exhausted (17 days). I've refilled the reactor, but this time, I've added 2 cups of PhosGuard. I expect PO4 will continue its downward trajectory.

Does twice the amount of PhosGuard mean that PO4 will come down at twice the rate?

Generally speaking, the appearance of the Anemones has improved. They don't look like tiny pieces of bubble gum. Now, they are inflating and look like Anemones, but are still 20% of their full size.

 

[Anxur]

A tank of level sps, illuminated with white lights, if it goes above 0.15 it becomes brown..

The colors are blurred by the exponential growth of Zooxanthellae

 

[Troylee]

A tank of level sps, illuminated with white lights, if it goes above 0.15 it becomes brown..

The colors are blurred by the exponential growth of Zooxanthellae

That’s false.. I run halides “very white light” and my phosphates sit currently at .2 my tank is far from brown.

 

[Miami Reef]

Edit: I had a question but I don’t have it anymore.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Edit: I had a question but I don’t have it anymore.

I guess that is good. lol

 

[Miami Reef]

I was afraid of getting made fun of.

I’ll ask a simpler version

Mimicing someone else's tank has big pitfalls unless you mimic everything they do, and have the same organisms. For example, they may have more organic phosphate present, such as from dissolved organics, bacteria from organic carbon dosing, or phyto from adding it.

If I liked a tank that used a Zeovit system which happened to use zeolites, would I also have to use those stones? Maybe I don’t believe those had an effect to their results.

What do you think about this scenario?