LFS that just don't care?

[mike550]

Slightly different perspective here. I'm a newbie to reefing (just over a year), and I've experienced a mix of online shops (BRS, Marine Depot, SaltWater Aquarium. WWC, LA) and local shops. My preference lately has been to shop local to support the businesses. But it's hard to develop any rapport or trust at the local shops when it may be only my first or second visit / purchase to a store. I also want to support the online folks because they provide so much "free" information that I'd like to support them for these efforts.

But what I have experienced locally is that there are some stores that just want the quick sale, and there are those that will be helpful and guide me. The "quick sale" shops also seem to be the ones where there are dead fish, large aiptasia colonies, and trying to sell "sizzle". My plan is to focus on only a few local shops and deal only with them, and hopefully over time we'll develop trust in each other.

 

[shred5]

I have been in the hobby for fifty years and was in the business for over twenty years. Years ago, there were many more hobbyists and many more stores. Today's younger people aren't drawn to the hobby. This means less qualified people to work in the stores. One store that I managed had three full time and seven part-time employees. These guys KNEW a lot. Today, that would be next to impossible.

That is a big problem is finding qualified help or help that even cares. Most these places can not afford either to pay people. I think there are more qualified people for the freshwater hobby but not so much for saltwater (see below).

It surprises me with the rate at which younger people are home more, less irl social and more prone to just doing solo hobbies. Especially amongst the stoner crowds. I mean what's there to not love, ocean, uv colors, and lots of "Woaaaaah mannnn"'s

Guess the price and upkeep is a draw back but it's really not as bad as people say, most time ull spend in the tank if u do it right will be the first 5 months then u slowly buy to automate or can get away with a Bi weekly water change and trusting ur gut and knowing ur reef

They only care about their phones and video games.

I have been in the reefing hobby around 35 years and saltwater even longer.

Anyway I started out in the hobby at a very young age but it was freshwater and I still think allot start out that way.. Most start out fresh water and work their way up and I think it is due to several things.

One the saltwater is considered harder.
Two it is far more expensive.

I helped start WI Reef Society and at one point I bet we had 100 members and very few were kids. Most kids also were in the hobby because their parents were.

 

[AdamD76]

I like going to and buying from my LFS and not so local FS. I just think the experience could be better with just a little more effort. I have noticed that getting and retaining good help is hard and some places have to make due with what they can employee wise. I just noticed that some look like they have just given up. I'm just frustrated.

Side note- I have never bought coral online.

 

[Glass Algae]

Slightly different perspective here. I'm a newbie to reefing (just over a year), and I've experienced a mix of online shops (BRS, Marine Depot, SaltWater Aquarium. WWC, LA) and local shops. My preference lately has been to shop local to support the businesses. But it's hard to develop any rapport or trust at the local shops when it may be only my first or second visit / purchase to a store. I also want to support the online folks because they provide so much "free" information that I'd like to support them for these efforts.

But what I have experienced locally is that there are some stores that just want the quick sale, and there are those that will be helpful and guide me. The "quick sale" shops also seem to be the ones where there are dead fish, large aiptasia colonies, and trying to sell "sizzle". My plan is to focus on only a few local shops and deal only with them, and hopefully over time we'll develop trust in each other.

That trend ur noticing I'm sure is from once things start spiriling down and you neglect it the more quick sales you need to alleviate but we all know spiriling means it's going down quicker than you can manage. Then add pandemic boom you're dealing with people trying to keep their business open short term and messing up peoples tanks with aptasia or being shady because of it.

 

[shred5]

You know another thing I see some people listing these great mail order places.

Most mail order places are a LFS to someone.

 

[1Clown]

On the bright side, at least your LFS cares enough to have a frag tank and sell coral. My only local saltwater store doesn't even sell coral. At least not any more. They tried years ago, but all that is left is the old tank in the back corner that was once their coral tank, but now it sits empty. There are a few empty plugs, a few plugs with dead skeletons attached, but nothing alive in the tank other than algae.

They don't use RO water let alone RO/DI.

the staff consists of a mom, her daughter, and a couple of her friends. All about 16-25yo and completely clueless.
One time I called to see if they had a certain pellet food in stock (TDO chroma boost) and the girl on the phone said "gee, I don' t know, we have a lot of stuff on the shelves..."

Talk about not caring.... I have the poster child LFS for not caring.

How is such a thing in business?

 

[ScubaFish802]

You know another thing I see some people listing these great mail order places.

Most mail order places are a LFS to someone.

Can only dream of living near WWC, TSA etc . . or even those members who have access to collect themselves. Goals for sure

 

[Glass Algae]

You know another thing I see some people listing these great mail order places.

Most mail order places are a LFS to someone.

I saw that all the time when people go to pet Co and get ich and aptasia, I'd rather support some great reefer owned ND loved business that is clean and deserves the business than ever use a chain or big box. Just my opinion tho

 

[ReeferWarrant]

@SaltISlife, If you're near Fairfax check out Reef Escape. The owner and staff are really knowledgeable and just decent people. Literally the only store I go to for livestock because of this.

 

[MnFish1]

I would say 'every LFS' like 'everything' is hit or miss. I have chosen one store that I go to - I know the owners (since being a customer) - they answer questions, they order things - and QT them - and they are now open by appointment only - and will ship coral and fish. I have never had one incident of disease since going to one place. I had an experience like the OP once - I just told them 'I'm not coming back'. Fwiw - aiptasia are difficult - I have never had one - had not ordered anything for 6 months - then - there is aiptasia. Then exponential growth..... Now easily controlled with Berghia (and also did no harm to the coral near them - so I wonder how true the statements are - suggesting they kill coral - except rarely) - but thats another debate. I think you're right in being honest with the owner. I would say - if this isnt fixed I wil find another store. If anyone is interested in the store I go to - you can PM me (and no - this is not an advertisement - I get no kickback - I just trust them - and their judgement)

 

[vetteguy53081]

Also, my LFS has a bunch of aptasia in the frag (which I have unfortunately got all of my corals from). There are no other fish stores in my area so what should I do????

Buy local or online

 

[sfin52]

I’ve noticed the LFS near me that has more corporate clients and maintenance contracts seems to be doing well and keeping good stock, but it has gotten about 50% more expensive. The ones more run by and for hobbyists and individuals seem to be struggling to keep stock. Which is tough, since it makes it hard to keep going back if they never have anything good, but if nobody buys what they have they will struggle to hang on.

If they dont have anything to sell I would say they are already in trouble.

 

[Tankkeepers]

If your lfs is bad like mine just order online as I do from reputable dealers if you buy more then one piece I find it will come out to be cheaper then going to my lfs I buy everything online even my tanks and equitment heck I even have bulk loads of frozen food overnighted with dry ice (I buy a years supply at a time) I refuse to give my lfs my money as when I first started out they did nothing but give me bad advice and got things killed by telling me completely wrong things to do just to make money which is dumb as most people I know of dont return after the initial investment and find out they sold them a bunch of crap that does not work together a better buisness plan is to sell ppl stuff that will do well with good advice then they will send everyone they know there and so on instead of warning people to stay away

 

[fish farmer]

I have been in the hobby for fifty years and was in the business for over twenty years. Years ago, there were many more hobbyists and many more stores. Today's younger people aren't drawn to the hobby. This means less qualified people to work in the stores. One store that I managed had three full time and seven part-time employees. These guys KNEW a lot. Today, that would be next to impossible.

I remember 20 years ago when we had two good fish stores in Vermont, coral keeping was a small hobby around here in Vermont. Both were run by hobbyists, my buddy who worked at one who was very qualified(he had worked at are local waterfront science center/aquarium), got frustrated with the kids who would always order the "cool" fish like remoras which were totally inappropriate for sale.

He basically told me he got out of the biz because it was a death hobby. Too many people wanting dory and nemo in a little tank.

 

[Tankkeepers]

Ya finding nemo was horable for the pore little fish as suddenly everyones kid wanted one and alot of people dont do the research required to know what to get for the fish they keep its sad cuz if stores treated any other pet like they do fish peta would be all over them but no one really sticks up for fish or inverts its sad really they are treated as throw away rather then a vauled member of the family(wish I could snuggle with them like I do my dogs hehe) they each have their own personality and are alot smarter then most people care to acknowledge

 

[SaltISlife]

I get it, but judging an LFS for some aiptasia seems bonkers to me. I dunno. I also someone mention Capital Aquarium by name here.... which is a great shop with a very knowledgeable owner and manager. I don’t get some people’s expectations. I think they are online a bit too much and don’t realize that shops online can edit all they want but reality is a bit messier. I dunno. I’m out.

The problem with the manager in capitol aquarium is he is a know it all. And you fall for it. Hes knowledgable but he leads you on to believe he is a know it all and his word is better over all. If you dont see that , than you dont spend enough time talking to him like i do. I litterally have a tip toe around him because of this. I recently got some corals from a trade in and one is Joker Cyphastrea. Ckearly its a cyohastrea.. very easy to tell by the raised volcano looking polyp craters. But he kept saying its a montipora. Montis dont have that feature.

I even posted it on the forums to get more opinions. And sure enough everyone said cyphastrea. When i went back for another trade i said i posted it on the forums and people verified it was a ctphastrea. And he goes no i dont think so. Well see bud he said.

I Who talks to people like that? I just dropped it right there.. Because people like that you can never convince them otherwise when they are wrong they are always right.

The owner i havent met but hes nice as far deals given. That and he thank god fired that one lady manager and thr long haired dude awhile ago. Those two were wayy worse than Brian. Brain is cool but he is still a know it all with a snippy mouth.

 

[Mr_Knightley]

My LFS smh, first red flag was the owner wearing a blue lives matter hat, but same issues Aiptasia in all tanks and I was trying to trade in a snowflake eel due to it out growing my tank and he said he could do $10 lol. I also asked about a red Goniopora frag and he said 200$ it’s smaller than a golf ball so I just get to water from there now

I honestly don't think his political standing has anything to do with the condition of the store at all. (I also fail to see how a pro-police hat is a red flag but I digress) I understand the price for the goni, a lot of suppliers are having to sell for more due to COVID but $200 is a little excessive. The snowflake trade-in makes sense to me as snowflakes in my area go for $20-$30 a pop.

 

[Thales]

None of the stories in this thread are new. The same kinds of discussions around LFS have been happening at least since 2001. Until there are some kind of enforcable standards, this will never end

 

[Mr_Knightley]

I guess since I've posted here I might as well share some stories of my own.
There is a store near me that was recommended by a relative of it's owner years ago. Last year I remembered and decided to check it out, it was a decent sized store (FW&SW) and the holding tanks were pretty cool looking. But, the SW display was infested with ich and the singular coral tank had cyano as well as a pygmy seahorse tank that was inundated with the stuff. They had pink skunk clowns (which I had been searching for for months) and they all looked healthy and were cheap so I bought 5. I was on my way to my own LFS to get water but decided to get it there instead.
Now the fun begins. The water took about 5 minutes per five gallon jug to fill, so I had a good amount of free time to inspect the store. I discovered some dead fish (noting unexpected though) and a lot of algae and cyano in the invert tanks. As I looked closer I realized that the fish tanks were decorated with live rock, which would mean the constant copper dose the employee told me they held was not actually there. The sucky thing is, I had already bought everything! I left the store faster than I could ever need to and hoped to God that I didn't just infect my system.
Welp, the next month I only had a cleaner wrasse and a cardinal left, after an ich outbreak.
One thing to note, the store was run and managed by a bunch of teens who did not know what they were doing.

Another store near me had a sadder story. It was one of the best fish stores in my area (again FW&SW) and my FW sister spent tons of time there. It was beautifully maintained and it felt like you were at a public aquarium whenever you went in. Long story short, the management changed and they added a reptile section to the store and changed the name. Slowly but surely the store was overrun with dog food, cat beds and bird toys with a sickly little fish section in the corner. This store is also now run by teen girls only, never the same ones (I go occasionally for reptile supplies, beats Petsmart).

 

[mike550]

That trend ur noticing I'm sure is from once things start spiriling down and you neglect it the more quick sales you need to alleviate but we all know spiriling means it's going down quicker than you can manage. Then add pandemic boom you're dealing with people trying to keep their business open short term and messing up peoples tanks with aptasia or being shady because of it.

@Glass Algae I completely agree with you that the current economy plays into the problems, and I want local businesses to survive. But whether you're a small mom/pop store or a big company, when you forget about taking care of your customer and start to take "short cuts" on the near term that sacrifice the quality and reputation of your business I will find someplace else to go. To be fair, I also am willing to pay more to support local stores. I get coffee from a small shop run by one woman and her family vs. going to Starbucks or Dunkin.