Losing euphyllia... HELP!

[Lord Gold]

Hello all! Hopefully this is I'm the right place... If it is not, please forgive me. I've been seeing a decline in only my euphyllia recently, and I'm at my wit's end as to what could be happening. I've tried everything, and checked all parameters (listed below). Everything else seems to be doing well (zoas, blastos, clove polyps), except the euphyllia. This behavior has been monitored for roughly 1.5 weeks, slowly declining. Could it be chemical warfare? The only recent changes were a large addition of zoas and palys around the time this took place, and I bumped my light up 2 watts in an effort to get more color out of my dragon soul torch. I also had a pom pom crab die last week (failed molt) but did not see any ammonia spikes in water testing. There has also been no sign of brown jelly disease. Please help!

Temp: 77.7
Salinity: 1.027
Ammonia: .001 (seneye)
Nitrite: 0 (API)
Nitrate: 25 (salifert)
Alkalinity: 8.0 (Hanna)
Calcium: 469 (Hanna)
Magnesium: 1440 (Red Sea)
pH: 8.1 (seneye)

Using Tropic Marin Reef Pro salt, RO/DI water for salt water and top off water.

 

[Webslinger]

Are you running Kalk? Lower salinity to 25. What's your flow and lighting. Run some carbon for a few days.

 

[LiveWire]

When is the last time you did a water change? Are you adding any minor/trace or other additives?

 

[NewGoby]

Agreed, lower salinity to 1.025.

These are the parameters I like to keep my euphyllia in:
Temperature @ 76 fahrenheit, alkalinity @ 8.5 ish (small buffer just incase I can't dose for a day or 2), calcium in the range of 425-450 (it's been @ 480 with everything being fine, I just prefer 425-450)

It could be chemical warfare - run activated carbon just to be safe - could also be lighting - they seem to be in quite a dark spot of the tank, how long have they been in this spot for & did they look fine in this exact spot?

and please post PO4, if its 0 that'd explain a LOT you need some amount of PO4

 

[Webslinger]

Agreed, lower salinity to 1.025.

These are the parameters I like to keep my euphyllia in:
Temperature @ 76 fahrenheit, alkalinity @ 8.5 ish (small buffer just incase I can't dose for a day or 2), calcium in the range of 425-450 (it's been @ 480 with everything being fine, I just prefer 425-450)

It could be chemical warfare - run activated carbon just to be safe - could also be lighting - they seem to be in quite a dark spot of the tank, how long have they been in this spot for & did they look fine in this exact spot?

and please post PO4, if its 0 that'd explain a LOT you need some amount of PO4

That's what i said...haha

Don't go chasing numbers.

Feed em?

 

[Lord Gold]

Are you running Kalk? Lower salinity to 25. What's your flow and lighting. Run some carbon for a few days.

Not running kalk, just manually dosing but it never seems to swing past .4 dKh + or -. I will definitely try lowering the salinity. I typically keep it 1.026, but this batch mixed a touch higher, and I didn't think it would create too negative of an impact. Running a Nero 5 set to 5% for flow on the back wall. Any higher, and they recede. Lightng is an AI Prime HD with the parameters in the attached image. 6.5 photo period with .5 he ramp up/down. Will replace carbon and gfo. Thank you!

 

[Lord Gold]

Last water change was on Monday (once per week, 20%), spot feed on Tuesdays and Thursdays, reef roids and mysis. PO4 is .613 according to Hanna checker

 

[Webslinger]

.026 is at the upper limit, if you keep it at .025 you have more wiggle room. Mine need 12-14 hours of light. Mine also took off once I started just using kalk in my ato. I t's the only thing I dose and simple once you have it dialed in. I just have LPS's and anemone's though.

 

[Lord Gold]

Only LPS here as well Webslinger. I'll give kalk a shot for sure, and increase the photo period and lower salinity. Thank you for your help! I'm willing to try anything, because obviously what I'm doing isn't working. I was nervous about the kalk also bringing up the calcium which is already at 469, but if you think I'd be fine I'll willing to give it a shot. To be honest, I never find myself needing to dose calcium. I'm assuming the water changes are sufficient in covering the consumption. Alkalinity on the other hand is a different story.

 

[Coral Reef Keepers]

They're not dead but def mad about something. I agree, salt is a bit high but so are phosphates. Something is definitely off... Euphyllia are my "canary in the coal mine" for when something is wrong, Zoas too! Adjust salt and lower phos and see how things react. Also, how it the flow there? Different Euphyllia like different flow rates. My frogspawn like more flow than my hammer.

 

[Lord Gold]

They're not dead but def mad about something. I agree, salt is a bit high but so are phosphates. Something is definitely off... Euphyllia are my "canary in the coal mine" for when something is wrong, Zoas too! Adjust salt and lower phos and see how things react. Also, how it the flow there? Different Euphyllia like different flow rates. My frogspawn like more flow than my hammer.

I'm glad to hear they're not dead! Will definitely be changing carbon and gfo when I get home. PO4 is typically .2ish for me, and they were happy with that. That's the bizarre thing is that my zoas are super happy. The flow is as high as they will allow me. I've tried turning the flow up before because I've seen videos of torches flapping in the breeze, but as soon as I turn my Nero 5 up even 1 percent they would retract. Again, I can't thank you all enough for your help. I will make the suggested improvements, and keep my fingers crossed!

 

[Uncle99]

Last water change was on Monday (once per week, 20%), spot feed on Tuesdays and Thursdays, reef roids and mysis. PO4 is .613 according to Hanna checker

Typically phosphate runs from 0.03 to .15, others have success in the .2 area.
.613 would be way out of range and certainly limit growth
Perhaps it’s just a typo....?

 

[Lord Gold]

Typically phosphate runs from 0.03 to .15, others have success in the .2 area.
.613 would be way out of range and certainly limit growth
Perhaps it’s just a typo....?

Unfortunately, not a typo Uncle99. I'm wondering if my GFO and carbon are both spent... Definitely changing tonight when I get home. I really hope that oversight on my part is the easy fix to what is causing this...

 

[Coral Reef Keepers]

I'm glad to hear they're not dead! Will definitely be changing carbon and gfo when I get home. PO4 is typically .2ish for me, and they were happy with that. That's the bizarre thing is that my zoas are super happy. The flow is as high as they will allow me. I've tried turning the flow up before because I've seen videos of torches flapping in the breeze, but as soon as I turn my Nero 5 up even 1 percent they would retract. ☹ Again, I can't thank you all enough for your help. I will make the suggested improvements, and keep my fingers crossed!

You are very welcome!! I dont know how your Nero flow pattern is set, but try going random. I blast my euphyllia with a bunch of flow once an hour for 10 min. I run it real calm after that. They seem to love it! Run some GFO and get that PO4 down a bit. Its probably the reef roids causing the high PO4, they have been known the be a phosphate factory!

 

[Uncle99]

Unfortunately, not a typo Uncle99. I'm wondering if my GFO and carbon are both spent... Definitely changing tonight when I get home. I really hope that oversight on my part is the easy fix to what is causing this...

Typically, any GFO will exhaust itself in a day or two when phosphate is high.
When phosphates are high, it’s cheaper and faster to use an LC product to get the phosphate into the .25 area, then use a GFO to lower it to the 0.03-.15 area.

Certainly the high phosphate is the main issue here, check your foods, perhaps one or more is high in phosphate.

Those corals look good to me so no worries, however, always bring down phosphates slowly, a little per day and ensure they don’t bottom out, looking at your nitrate at 25ppm, you should be good in the higher range of say .15-.25. For reference, my tank runs in this range.

 

[Lord Gold]

Typically, any GFO will exhaust itself in a day or two when phosphate is high.
When phosphates are high, it’s cheaper and faster to use an LC product to get the phosphate into the .25 area, then use a GFO to lower it to the 0.03-.15 area.

Certainly the high phosphate is the main issue here, check your foods, perhaps one or more is high in phosphate.

Those corals look good to me so no worries, however, always bring down phosphates slowly, a little per day and ensure they don’t bottom out, looking at your nitrate at 25ppm, you should be good in the higher range of say .15-.25. For reference, my tank runs in this range.

Uncle - Good to know about GFO. I didn't think it would exhaust that quickly, honestly. Forgive my ignorance, but what is an LC product? I have also heard the same thing Coral Reef Keepers said about Reef Roids, and I just fed the day before I posted, so I wonder if that is partly to blame for the high phosphate situation. I will definitely take my time bringing it down. I would hate to shock them and have this all be for not. ☹ Beautiful tank by the way Uncle. I'm jealous!

 

[Uncle99]

Sorry for the delay....LC stands for Lanthanum Chloride, trade names like Agent Green and Phosphate RX.
Search YouTube for info on LC and/or trade names, this can be very helpful.
In general, LC is a liquid which when dosed into a reef tank, binds with the phosphate into a flocculent which can be trapped by a fine pad or filter sock, then, pull the sock and replace. When dosed, your water will turn cloudy (the flocculent containing the trapped phosphate)
You would repeat this procedure until you get phosphate to a low position, maybe .3 or .2, then using a GFO will mop up the remainder of the organic, but don’t go below 0.03.
Follow manufactures instructions exactly, you can repeat daily until level desired reached.
Running phosphates in the 0.03-.25 range is acceptable, instead of picking a number in this range, see what the tank wants to run at, then test weekly to see if it rises. If it does, you likely feeding to much or using foods high in phosphate. The only way phosphate gets in your tank is through what you feed.
Seek the balance and maintain always.

I stopped using reef roids, appears to be a source of higher end phosphate. I am really not sure why they get such attention, there are tons of better ways.

I feed my corals daily, in a 65, just before lights out, Monday 20ml phyto, tuesday 20ml fuel, Wed 20ml zooplankton, thursday 20ml fuel, Friday 2 cubes cyclops.

 

[Lord Gold]

Sorry for the delay....LC stands for Lanthanum Chloride, trade names like Agent Green and Phosphate RX.
Search YouTube for info on LC and/or trade names, this can be very helpful.
In general, LC is a liquid which when dosed into a reef tank, binds with the phosphate into a flocculent which can be trapped by a fine pad or filter sock, then, pull the sock and replace. When dosed, your water will turn cloudy (the flocculent containing the trapped phosphate)
You would repeat this procedure until you get phosphate to a low position, maybe .3 or .2, then using a GFO will mop up the remainder of the organic, but don’t go below 0.03.
Follow manufactures instructions exactly, you can repeat daily until level desired reached.
Running phosphates in the 0.03-.25 range is acceptable, instead of picking a number in this range, see what the tank wants to run at, then test weekly to see if it rises. If it does, you likely feeding to much or using foods high in phosphate. The only way phosphate gets in your tank is through what you feed.
Seek the balance and maintain always.

I stopped using reef roids, appears to be a source of higher end phosphate. I am really not sure why they get such attention, there are tons of better ways.

I feed my corals daily, in a 65, just before lights out, Monday 20ml phyto, tuesday 20ml fuel, Wed 20ml zooplankton, thursday 20ml fuel, Friday 2 cubes cyclops.

Thank you for the info! I will look into it for sure. I started with changing the carbon and GFO last night. I'll do more research tonight on lanthanum chloride, and give it a shot.

 

[Webslinger]

slow and steady...Keep it stable, there are no quick fixes

 

[Lord Gold]

slow and steady...Keep it stable, there are no quick fixes

So I changed my carbon and GFO that night, and just ran a PO4 test. Back down to .242 relying solely on the GFO. No massive changes in the appearance of them yet, sonim patiently waiting with my fingers crossed. I will definitely keep my eye on them, and the PO4 levels.