Multiple Symptoms - looking for some help

[bravop]

Hey guys - looking for some advice here as I have a few different symptoms going on.

About a week ago noticed one of the clowns dive into the sand which I didn't much of as it had just occurred once, but then a few days later I noticed the other clown had stringy poo (half white, half brown). Then the next day the same clown had stringy white poo. Did some research and again, figured I'd just continue to observe. It has been a few days since I observed either of the symptoms above, but then yesterday noticed diving into the sand with both clowns, darting, scratching on rocks, twitching, and faster respirations. I have also noticed very tiny white dots on the clowns, most of which come and go, but don't resemble ich/velvet/brook examples I've seen.

I'm nearly positive whatever is going on came from the ORA or Biota fish as the Yasha was first in, QT'ed, and has remained asymptomatic. This leads me to either/both flukes and internal parasites, but as a novice I'm looking for more experienced opinions. Good pics are difficult to get as both the clowns are very active, but if you zoom in you can see the white spots and stringy poo. Video of darting, twitching, respirations attached.

I have prazipro on hand - would prefer to dose in display as I don't see myself catching the goby, but do have a empty 20g breeder set up. Thanks in advance.

Yasha Goby - Trusted QT Vendor - asymptomatic aside from a yawn every now and then, eating well, active
Black Saddleback Clowns - ORA (order via algaebarn - drop shipped) - symptoms above, eating well, active
Royal Gramma - Biota (ordered direct) - this guy hasn't been active since I've got him, stays primarily in a corner or glued to the sandbed, seemingly asymptomatic, eats scraps on the sandbed
Various LPS/Soft Corals - All happy
Inverts - QT'ed - All happy - CC Pistol shrimp, pom pom crab, cerith, blue leg hermits, strawberry conch

Aquarium Parameters:
Aquarium type: Reef
Aquarium water volume: 40G IM AIO
Filtration type: Mechanical – Filter sock and filter floss
Lighting – 30” AI Blade Grow
How long has the aquarium been established? 3 months

Water quality (be sure to indicate what measurement units you are using, as well as the test kit brand)
Temperature: 77-78 Hanna
pH: 8.0 Red Sea
Salinity / specific gravity: 34.7 Hanna
Ammonia: 0 Red Sea
Nitrite: haven't tested
Nitrate: 15 Red Sea/Hanna
Phosphate: 0.11 Hanna

In-depth information:
Have you lost any fish to this problem yet? No
Are any invertebrates affected? No
Respiration rate of affected fish – Goby – 56, RG -
Are the affected fish still feeding? Yes
What remedies have you tried so far? None
#fishmedic#fishmedic

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hey guys - looking for some advice here as I have a few different symptoms going on.

About a week ago noticed one of the clowns dive into the sand which I didn't much of as it had just occurred once, but then a few days later I noticed the other clown had stringy poo (half white, half brown). Then the next day the same clown had stringy white poo. Did some research and again, figured I'd just continue to observe. It has been a few days since I observed either of the symptoms above, but then yesterday noticed diving into the sand with both clowns, darting, scratching on rocks, twitching, and faster respirations. I have also noticed very tiny white dots on the clowns, most of which come and go, but don't resemble ich/velvet/brook examples I've seen.

I'm nearly positive whatever is going on came from the ORA or Biota fish as the Yasha was first in, QT'ed, and has remained asymptomatic. This leads me to either/both flukes and internal parasites, but as a novice I'm looking for more experienced opinions. Good pics are difficult to get as both the clowns are very active, but if you zoom in you can see the white spots and stringy poo. Video of darting, twitching, respirations attached.

I have prazipro on hand - would prefer to dose in display as I don't see myself catching the goby, but do have a empty 20g breeder set up. Thanks in advance.

Yasha Goby - Trusted QT Vendor - asymptomatic aside from a yawn every now and then, eating well, active
Black Saddleback Clowns - ORA (order via algaebarn - drop shipped) - symptoms above, eating well, active
Royal Gramma - Biota (ordered direct) - this guy hasn't been active since I've got him, stays primarily in a corner or glued to the sandbed, seemingly asymptomatic, eats scraps on the sandbed
Various LPS/Soft Corals - All happy
Inverts - QT'ed - All happy - CC Pistol shrimp, pom pom crab, cerith, blue leg hermits, strawberry conch

Aquarium Parameters:
Aquarium type: Reef
Aquarium water volume: 40G IM AIO
Filtration type: Mechanical – Filter sock and filter floss
Lighting – 30” AI Blade Grow
How long has the aquarium been established? 3 months

Water quality (be sure to indicate what measurement units you are using, as well as the test kit brand)
Temperature: 77-78 Hanna
pH: 8.0 Red Sea
Salinity / specific gravity: 34.7 Hanna
Ammonia: 0 Red Sea
Nitrite: haven't tested
Nitrate: 15 Red Sea/Hanna
Phosphate: 0.11 Hanna

In-depth information:
Have you lost any fish to this problem yet? No
Are any invertebrates affected? No
Respiration rate of affected fish – Goby – 56, RG -
Are the affected fish still feeding? Yes
What remedies have you tried so far? None
#fishmedic#fishmedic

Pics are quite dark to see anything and a better clue to offer would be video under bright white light intensity, no blue for at least 25 seconds of play time. Some effects with flukes will be rubbing against objects, color loss, yawning, hiding, loss of appetite, scratch marks on body and sudden darting
When ordering quarantined fish, still do your own quarantine for at least 14 days and assume the fish have something via shipping, stress and temperature changes.

 

[MnFish1]

I would also add - that the poop - is much less a symptom than people believe - its more often (IMHO) diet rather than disease. The concerning thing I hear is the spots - and I can't see them.

 

[bravop]

Here is a longer vid and additional pics under bright whites. Extremely difficult to get the spots as they're so small and the fish doesn't rest, but I've tried to highlight the general area.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Here is a longer vid and additional pics under bright whites. Extremely difficult to get the spots as they're so small and the fish doesn't rest, but I've tried to highlight the general area.

Just some general observations;

The clowns look pretty good overall, they are paired up well (so I think we can rule out fighting).
Tank raised fish are usually a low risk for flukes, but many flukes have sticky eggs, and can get into a tank stuck on corals and CUC coming from an infected tank at a LFS.

 

[bravop]

Just some general observations;

The clowns look pretty good overall, they are paired up well (so I think we can rule out fighting).
Tank raised fish are usually a low risk for flukes, but many flukes have sticky eggs, and can get into a tank stuck on corals and CUC coming from an infected tank at a LFS.

I guess the corals are a possibility, but they were bought from a shop that doesn't sell other livestock. CUC was QT'ed 80.6 F for 6 weeks or until molt.

Still noticing little white specks on both clowns. I've taken about 50 pics so far to try to capture what I'm seeing - best pics are below. Also wondering if this could be some epoxy particulate sticking to them/causing some irritation after mounting corals a couple days ago. Darting was minimal yesterday but the flashing/scratching continued periodically. Fish are still eating well.

Do we think a FW dip is advisable as a diagnostic tool? Going to start clearing the sand/rock out of QT tank just in case copper is needed.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I guess the corals are a possibility, but they were bought from a shop that doesn't sell other livestock. CUC was QT'ed 80.6 F for 6 weeks or until molt.

Still noticing little white specks on both clowns. I've taken about 50 pics so far to try to capture what I'm seeing - best pics are below. Also wondering if this could be some epoxy particulate sticking to them/causing some irritation after mounting corals a couple days ago. Darting was minimal yesterday but the flashing/scratching continued periodically. Fish are still eating well.

Do we think a FW dip is advisable as a diagnostic tool? Going to start clearing the sand/rock out of QT tank just in case copper is needed.

Don't do a FW dip unless you have a microscope to look at the dip water with - only one common species of fluke is really large enough to see with the naked eye.

I don't know if epoxy would do that or not.

I'm still struggling to see anything of note in the pics/video.

Another option would be to observe the fish for two more days. If the spots are in the same location, you can rule out ich or velvet. The next most likely diagnose is missing scales from the fish scratching. In turn, if the scratching continues, then flukes are the most likely culprit.

You could try treating them in place with Prazipro. This is reef safe. It doesn't always break the life cycle of flukes, but you will see some relief after a few days, so that is a good way to diagnose flukes. To treat it, you dose at about 85% of the rated volume of the tank (to offset for rock and sand displacement). Then, keep any skimmers running, but don't collect skimmate for the first day after the treatment. Adding an air stone is important if you don't have a skimmer. Remove any carbon or other chemical filtration and turn off any UV. Then, 8 days later, do a 25% water change and redose.

 

[bravop]

Don't do a FW dip unless you have a microscope to look at the dip water with - only one common species of fluke is really large enough to see with the naked eye.

I don't know if epoxy would do that or not.

I'm still struggling to see anything of note in the pics/video.

Another option would be to observe the fish for two more days. If the spots are in the same location, you can rule out ich or velvet. The next most likely diagnose is missing scales from the fish scratching. In turn, if the scratching continues, then flukes are the most likely culprit.

You could try treating them in place with Prazipro. This is reef safe. It doesn't always break the life cycle of flukes, but you will see some relief after a few days, so that is a good way to diagnose flukes. To treat it, you dose at about 85% of the rated volume of the tank (to offset for rock and sand displacement). Then, keep any skimmers running, but don't collect skimmate for the first day after the treatment. Adding an air stone is important if you don't have a skimmer. Remove any carbon or other chemical filtration and turn off any UV. Then, 8 days later, do a 25% water change and redose.

Much appreciated. I'll observe for a couple more days and watch out for the spots and any changes in behavior.

 

[bravop]

Alright I was able to get a picture that captures what I'm seeing over here. The spot above the yellow marking has been there for a few days and has not moved. Now more white spots are popping up on both clowns. Clowns appear to be twitching more today and the scratching/flashing has continued. Noticed some yawning today as well which is new for the clowns. All fish are still hungry and eating well, but have noticed the misbar spitting out pellets well after eating. I have observed the goby yawning and will sometimes open his mouth for the pistol - looks like the pistol is digging around in his mouth.

I'm debating pulling all the fish into a separate tank and doing a proper QT while the display sits fallow for some peace of mind. I have coppersafe on the way. Any recommendations on how to proceed? I'm thinking there's two main options here. 1 - dose prazipro once in display, observe for relief, and go from there based on observations. 2 - pull all fish into separate tank and go through the QT protocol listed in this forum. The question here is do I start with prazipro while coppersafe is on the way? Any alternatives I should be thinking of?

Don't do a FW dip unless you have a microscope to look at the dip water with - only one common species of fluke is really large enough to see with the naked eye.

I don't know if epoxy would do that or not.

I'm still struggling to see anything of note in the pics/video.

Another option would be to observe the fish for two more days. If the spots are in the same location, you can rule out ich or velvet. The next most likely diagnose is missing scales from the fish scratching. In turn, if the scratching continues, then flukes are the most likely culprit.

You could try treating them in place with Prazipro. This is reef safe. It doesn't always break the life cycle of flukes, but you will see some relief after a few days, so that is a good way to diagnose flukes. To treat it, you dose at about 85% of the rated volume of the tank (to offset for rock and sand displacement). Then, keep any skimmers running, but don't collect skimmate for the first day after the treatment. Adding an air stone is important if you don't have a skimmer. Remove any carbon or other chemical filtration and turn off any UV. Then, 8 days later, do a 25% water change and redos

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Alright I was able to get a picture that captures what I'm seeing over here. The spot above the yellow marking has been there for a few days and has not moved. Now more white spots are popping up on both clowns. Clowns appear to be twitching more today and the scratching/flashing has continued. Noticed some yawning today as well which is new for the clowns. All fish are still hungry and eating well, but have noticed the misbar spitting out pellets well after eating. I have observed the goby yawning and will sometimes open his mouth for the pistol - looks like the pistol is digging around in his mouth.

I'm debating pulling all the fish into a separate tank and doing a proper QT while the display sits fallow for some peace of mind. I have coppersafe on the way. Any recommendations on how to proceed? I'm thinking there's two main options here. 1 - dose prazipro once in display, observe for relief, and go from there based on observations. 2 - pull all fish into separate tank and go through the QT protocol listed in this forum. The question here is do I start with prazipro while coppersafe is on the way? Any alternatives I should be thinking of?

The yawning and posing for shrimp are both symptoms of flukes. You could try a Prazipro treatment with the fish in the tank they are in now.

 

[bravop]

The yawning and posing for shrimp are both symptoms of flukes. You could try a Prazipro treatment with the fish in the tank they are in now.

Thanks Jay. Going to treat tonight. I don't run a skimmer, so just add the air stone with treatment for first 24-48 hours as well? Based on what I've read prazipro should be eliminated from the system after 3 days, so is there any reason to add some carbon after the 2nd round of treatment or just stick with the 25% water changes?

40G * 85% = 34G
Recommended dose 5ml/20G, actual dose = 8.5ml/34G