My alk keeps dropping with afr

[exnisstech]

Delete. not at all helpful

 

[TangerineSpeedo]

You can mix and match any alk dosing system.

All for reef and kalkwasser are both calcium-heavy, meaning they can cause an increase in calcium overtime when using either to maintain alkalinity.

Changing water with a low-calcium salt is one way to combat this. Another way is to simply switch to sodium carbonate, bicarbonate, or hydroxide and only use it to maintain alkalinity until the calcium drops back down through consumption.

I thought it had something to do with AFR's calcium formate. I was hoping Randy could chime in and clarify. I don't use both at the same time so I don't have any experience with it.

 

[rtparty]

I thought it had something to do with AFR's calcium formate. I was hoping Randy could chime in and clarify. I don't use both at the same time so I don't have any experience with it.

The issue with supplementing with kalk is that kalk is only alkalinity and calcium. No magnesium. No trace elements. AFR is specifically designed to keep magnesium and trace elements in line with the alkalinity and calcium demand.

So if half your alkalinity and calcium are coming from kalkwasser, you are under dosing magnesium and trace elements in the AFR.

How much this actually plays out in the real world I am unsure. I am sure water changes would negate it somewhat

 

[Miami Reef]

I thought it had something to do with AFR's calcium formate. I was hoping Randy could chime in and clarify. I don't use both at the same time so I don't have any experience with it.

You cannot mix them together in the same solution, but you can certainly add them separately to any reef aquarium.

 

[Miami Reef]

So if half your alkalinity and calcium are coming from kalkwasser, you are under dosing magnesium and trace elements in the AFR.

Right.

So you’d just add it separately. You can calculate the magnesium addition based on the Kalkwasser demand. Tropic Marin sells A and K elements which is exactly what’s in AFR, so you can match that, too.

 

[rtparty]

Right.

So you’d just add it separately. You can calculate the magnesium addition based on the Kalkwasser demand. Tropic Marin sells A and K elements which is exactly what’s in AFR, so you can match that, too.

Correct. You can.

But most who recommend dosing kalk with AFR never mention it

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The issue with supplementing with kalk is that kalk is only alkalinity and calcium. No magnesium. No trace elements. AFR is specifically designed to keep magnesium and trace elements in line with the alkalinity and calcium demand.

So if half your alkalinity and calcium are coming from kalkwasser, you are under dosing magnesium and trace elements in the AFR.

How much this actually plays out in the real world I am unsure. I am sure water changes would negate it somewhat

Yes, I agree with that exactly. It’s up to each aquarist to decide what is most important, but if you dose no other trace elements, and can afford it, all AFR may be a better bet than using some kalk to boost pH. As a rule, a small amount of kalk (say, 0.5 dKH per day or less) is unlikely to have much of a pH effect anyway. But it is cheap, if that is a goal.

I used just kalk for 20 years, but plan to use AFR now.

 

[Kodski]

I currently use AFR and Kalk together on the same system. I have not experienced any Calcium increase and I rarely do water changes. Maybe 10% every 3-4 months. Personally I choose this method as I love Kalk for the rise in PH and I believe that the chemical make up is something unique that allows stone corals to grow faster. I have no scientific evidence for this claim, only anecdotal evidence I've gathered from look at many, many reef builds. To me, AFR is the supplement in my system, mostly for trace elements but also to help prevent me from reaching my maximum Kalk dose.

My system runs around 10-10.5 ALK and I don't see below a 8.2 PH level, even in the dead of winter. So for me it works well.

Going back to OP's topic though, I have found older/low reagents to affect Hanna tests. Glad you found the problem, but now it looks like you've got a new one. Which test to trust. In my experience just pick one and go with it. To me, the number isn't what's important to a reef system, its the stability of that number. Keep that number the same, doesn't matter the number, and you'll have a successful tank. More food for thought, if you like to use Tropic Marin salt, try doctoring it before you dose. Use some 2-part to get the ALK up to your target level, that way your AWC's will help you keep your target numbers not give you something to fight against. I switched salts partly because I got sick of always doctoring up my TM salt for water changes. I picked a salt that better matches my target ALK and my tank never noticed. So maybe give that some thought too.

 

[twentyleagues]

Hello everyone. Iv been doing lately awc with tropic marin pro salt i add some alk to the mix, and i also dose 95ml/afr a day seperated on hourly dose. My alk keeps dropping. I was at 8.4 like not even 2 weeks ago. Then now it dropped my alk to 7.5 its getting annoying that i have to increase afr every 2 weeks. My calcium, and mag also dropping. What product should i switch to?

I get it awc 1% a day affects it, growth, etc. but its genuinely annoying have to increase afr every 2 weeks and getting a bit pricey even for powder

I am late to the party as usual. I was thinking testing and I am glad you figured it out. I always have a second test kit on hand red sea, Salifert or even api just to get a second opinion if I see a test that is way out of line. I have not had too many issues with the Hannah tests but its nice to have a backup.

 

[H.E. Pennypacker]

I ran into problems with AFR too. Switched to ATI essential 2 part (equal 1:1 doses) and never changing. Been rock solid

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I ran into problems with AFR too. Switched to ATI essential 2 part (equal 1:1 doses) and never changing. Been rock solid

What problem?

 

[cdemoss01]

A member took the time to offer you assistance that's what I got out of the post. The information appears correct.

appreciate this.

 

[H.E. Pennypacker]

What problem?

I could not keep ALK and CA stable, one would always drift and I would have to supplement manually. I don't know if my UV played a part since it's a conversion process.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I could not keep ALK and CA stable, one would always drift and I would have to supplement manually. I don't know if my UV played a part since it's a conversion process.

I suspect you just didn’t dose enough. The uv should not matter.

 

[IceNein]

I feel like for some reason nobody reads Tropic Marin's dosing instructions on AFR. The proper way to dose AFR is to start the initial recommended dosage, and then measure CA and ALK and then modify your dosing according to the chart found here:

Tropic Marin | Aquarium | Produktinformationen

Tropic Mairn - The aquatic life science company. Wir stellen hochwertige Salze, Additive und Wassertests vorwiegend für Meerwasseraquarien her. Korallen, Fische und Wirbellose in Ihrem Aquarium fühlen sich mit unseren Produkten wohl.

www.tropic-marin-smartinfo.com

So as it says on that chart, if you are dosing AFR and your CA is steady but ALK is falling then you should maintain the dosage of AFR and start dosing, or increase dosing Balling B (Sodium Bicarbonate).

 

[Miami Reef]

So as it says on that chart, if you are dosing AFR and your CA is steady but ALK is falling then you should maintain the dosage of AFR and start dosing, or increase dosing Balling B (Sodium Bicarbonate).

Calcium kits aren’t sensitive enough for this method to work.

Alk stability is more important than calcium stability, so we should use alk to maintain the dosage.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I feel like for some reason nobody reads Tropic Marin's dosing instructions on AFR. The proper way to dose AFR is to start the initial recommended dosage, and then measure CA and ALK and then modify your dosing according to the chart found here:

Tropic Marin | Aquarium | Produktinformationen

Tropic Mairn - The aquatic life science company. Wir stellen hochwertige Salze, Additive und Wassertests vorwiegend für Meerwasseraquarien her. Korallen, Fische und Wirbellose in Ihrem Aquarium fühlen sich mit unseren Produkten wohl.

www.tropic-marin-smartinfo.com

So as it says on that chart, if you are dosing AFR and your CA is steady but ALK is falling then you should maintain the dosage of AFR and start dosing, or increase dosing Balling B (Sodium Bicarbonate).

That’s what they recommend. It is not what I recommend. I recommend dosing it to maintain alk. Calcium moves too slowly with added testing variability to make decisions on it that impact alk dosing.

The issue is exactly identical to kalkwasser dosing.

 

[pooootiqe]

I'm always happy to see my ALK go down lol. It likely indicates that something is growing better than before, could be coralline or corals.

If anything, AFR is doing a great job at promoting alk-consuming organism growth better than the previous 2/3 parts. Not sure why our machine overlord thinks it's a bad thing!

 

[twentyleagues]

I dont know I followed Randys advise since I started this tank and have had no issues. Just test alk and dose accordingly. I do occasional water changes calc seems to stay within 420-440 according to a red sea test and API test take that for what its worth.

 

[IceNein]

That’s what they recommend. It is not what I recommend. I recommend dosing it to maintain alk. Calcium moves too slowly with added testing variability to make decisions on it that impact alk dosing.

The issue is exactly identical to kalkwasser dosing.

Well the truth is that I dose AFR and don't bother to even check Ca, but of course I also do weekly 20% water changes so I figure it can't possibly be too out of spec