My Current QT Process

Discussion in 'Fish Disease Treatment and Diagnosis' started by HotRocks, Oct 22, 2018.

  1. JMM744

    JMM744 Well-Known Member R2R Supporter Partner Member 2019 Build Thread Contributor

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    Too bad. I love those fish. I have one on order from Humblefish right now if he can find a decent one. I look forward to the day my 180 is full of butterflies.
     

  2. reelredfisah

    reelredfisah Active Member

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    Ok wow this was a lot to read. Some great info and have to say hats off to you for sharing your info.

    I have never done QT but want to now that I am starting over.

    Be nice to have a clean updated list of needed products.

    Also I am limited on room trying to figure out how I can QT at least two fish at a time. I could prob setup a 10 gallon for tank one then another 10 gallon for the second tank. Two fish at a time in tank one following your process.

    But I am not sure if this will even be big enough. Any recomendations? My fish room is very small no extra room for tanks really and dont want takes siting around the house.
     
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  3. Saltyreef

    Saltyreef Active Member

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    I used this process with 4 fish total and using 3 setups and offsetting the treatments.
    2 clowns in a 10 gallon and 2 anthias plus a goby in the 2nd 10 gallon using the 3rd tank as the sterile transfer tank.
    You should be fine with 2 to 3 small fish in a 10 gallon tank.
     
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  4. Heavymman

    Heavymman Active Member R2R Supporter Build Thread Contributor

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    +1

    I successfully QTed 2 clowns , a Midas blennie and in process of yellow wrasse with 10 gallon.
     
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  5. gonefishin

    gonefishin Member

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    Trying the new method of Copper Power and weaving GC/Metro for 14 days. Why additional 2 week observation period after? If I don't see anything within first 2 weeks can I just put fish in DT after treatment?
     
  6. Smo

    Smo Well-Known Member R2R Supporter

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    You’re assuming everything goes perfect. What if it doesn’t? What if you have Prazi resistant flukes? What if you somehow cross-contaminate? What if the QT drops below a therapeutic level? The list goes on. Depends on how much risk you are willing to take. I’d say two weeks of post treatment observation is minimum. Four weeks would be better for risk reduction. Just my observation...
     
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  7. gobble

    gobble Active Member

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    Why after the 14 days of copper do you need to transfer to a new sterile tank vs. use carbon and water changes to remove the copper? I suspect it's something to do with making sure any disease doesn't exist in the new tank, but wouldn't it be dead after 14 days of copper?
     
  8. Brew12

    Brew12 Electrical Gru Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Leader Partner Member 2019 Reef Tank 365 Article Contributor Build Thread Contributor North Alabama Reef Club

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    Copper only kills the free swimming infectious stage. The concern is that if a parasite leaves the fish and forms a cyst on the tank to reproduce, it may not hatch until after the copper is removed if you only wait 14 days. By transferring to a new tank you prevent this from being an issue.
     
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  9. gobble

    gobble Active Member

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    Thanks, I was going to write nevermind I found it on page 4, but you beat me to it.

    That probably means a second HOB filter and heater too...
     
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  10. TK_KW

    TK_KW Wait WHAT!! Its HOW MUCH!!!!! R2R Supporter Reef Tank 365 Catskill Reef Member Build Thread Contributor

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    Questions -

    How often are you doing water changes to keep copper level at 1.75? Monitor it daily, if you see it close to 1.5 then you do waterchange? With premixed 1.75 water.

    As I have seven wrasses I'm going to start putting through this, what is my best option. I currently have frags in my qt1, so tank transfers at 14days I cant do, unless I move frags. Or do full 30days in qt2 and hope wrasses will be fine. What is my best luck for success?

    Wrasses are-

    Royal pencil
    Pylei
    Yellow coris

    If this makes any difference
     
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  11. Saltyreef

    Saltyreef Active Member

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    The copper is always in the system when dosed at a determined ppm. It will raise in concentration with evaporation it will never drop unless removed with water changes or filtration with carbon/poly. Water changes are based on your ammonia load and not wanting it to get too high. When you do a water change, pre dosing is only to ensure the concentration stays above theraputic vs doing a water change and then dosing more, in which the fish would be exposed to sub theraputic levels.
     
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  12. gobble

    gobble Active Member

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    Would you use a month out of date bottle of Bio-Spira quarantining a Gem Tang? BRS just sent me an out of date bottle. I called telling them please refund me I'll just buy one locally and they fought me on it.
     
  13. 4FordFamily

    4FordFamily Tang, Angel, & Wrasse Addict Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Partner Member 2019 Article Contributor Expert Contributor Hospitality Award Build Thread Contributor

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    UPDATE: We have discovered at least one strain of velvet that survives 1.75 PPM copper, we recommend increasing to 2.0PPM to eradicate it.

    I have updated the stickies first post's to 2.0PPM to cover this.
     
  14. Brew12

    Brew12 Electrical Gru Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Leader Partner Member 2019 Reef Tank 365 Article Contributor Build Thread Contributor North Alabama Reef Club

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    Well aren't you a ball of joy this morning.... :confused::(
     
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  15. 4FordFamily

    4FordFamily Tang, Angel, & Wrasse Addict Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Partner Member 2019 Article Contributor Expert Contributor Hospitality Award Build Thread Contributor

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    I wish it wasn't so, and I wish it hadn't cost me a fortune to discover, personally... but it's true unfortunately. Believe me though, you feel better about it than me. You don't want to know how much this has cost me between the two failed batches (very large with many expensive fish -- we didn't even think there was a remote chance of velvet surviving and let our guard down).

    https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/bad-news-velvet-strain-survives-1-75-ppm-copper.583491/
     
  16. Brew12

    Brew12 Electrical Gru Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Leader Partner Member 2019 Reef Tank 365 Article Contributor Build Thread Contributor North Alabama Reef Club

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    I'm really sorry you are dealing with this but I am glad you are sharing... this is important information to get out. Can't help but wonder if we are seeing the results of so many holding systems running low levels of copper to keep parasites down but not eradicate them.

    So if 2ppm is the new minimum, do you feel it is safe to set the target to 2.25ppm with a max of 2.5ppm?

    Also wondering if the chelating agent used in copper power may make it less effective where it may not cause the issues in coppersafe (assuming they are chelated differently).
     
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  17. dwest

    dwest Valuable Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award

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    Very sorry about this! I’m amazed...but I do have a question.

    How confident are you that this occurred because of the concentration of copper vs. some other problem with the method?

    I am a huge proponent of the method that Hotrocks put together with yours and others help. I have been very successful with it and I thank you for assisting in getting it published. However, for example, the transfer after 14 days in copper seems as though it possibly could bring “swimmers” (like dinospores with velvet) to the new quarantine system.

    I certainly don’t want to be a pain, just wondering what you think.

    Thank you.
     
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  18. 4FordFamily

    4FordFamily Tang, Angel, & Wrasse Addict Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Partner Member 2019 Article Contributor Expert Contributor Hospitality Award Build Thread Contributor

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    We have successfully used 1.75PPM copper power in the past several times. I do think that this probably partially if not entirely due to copper levels utilized throughout the distribution system.

    I am sure it's safe to target higher levels, but I am not sure they're 100% necessary. We will test further of course, but we do know for sure 1.75PPM doesn't cut it for this strain of velvet.

    I am no chemist but I remember @Humblefish mentioning that he thinks that the two products are likely much the same, other than Mardel CopperSafe's inability to utilize sufficient quality control per previous threads.
     
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  19. 4FordFamily

    4FordFamily Tang, Angel, & Wrasse Addict Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Partner Member 2019 Article Contributor Expert Contributor Hospitality Award Build Thread Contributor

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    Since velvet's life cycle is 48 hours, so 14 vs 30 days ought not to matter if the level is therapeutic. I feel if they can survive 14 then they can survive 30 at that level. I can't be certain, but the 14 days is designed for crypt's life cycle which is longer, up to 10 days with a 4 day cushion added.

    Human error in this case wasn't a factor, Kyle is actually annoying with his reminders of not to touch things in his basement. Each tank has it's own food, net, etc. It's out of control how thorough he is. These are just my thoughts!
     
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  20. MrsBugmaster

    MrsBugmaster Active Member R2R Supporter

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    Bad news for sure. And sorry for all your losses due to this. You guys are doing great work though, so keep it up!!
     
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