My Current QT Process

[Jason Roth]

So this is food??? When white peeling look and the spots below the dorsal fin?

No. That’s in the DT with the rock. I’m talking observation tank. If you zoom in on that pic it looks like there is a spot on one of them but it’s floating food.

Didn’t really look like peeling. Probably bad pic. Or at least no peeling like I see in other typical brook pics. Either way it’s a 45min bath. That treatment is easy. I’m sick of testing copper daily. So I’ll do what the link says for the bath and follow up and then when done I’ll do copper power.

Thank you for the replies and help. And in future observation tanks I’ll put brand new sponges in and biospira.

 

[alpenreefer]

@HotRocks, #reefsquad
I live in a very dry climate and my QT evaporation is ridiculous. I add ~1/2G per day for small 10G QT (also running 20G QT which takes ~3/4G+ per day). Currently my QT tank has frame mesh cover and is in Copper Power treatment stage with HOB and power head w/ air. I do have full glass lids for my tanks excluding tight cutouts for HOB, heater wire and power head wire and air tube. Could I use this or would it not provide enough oxygen/gas exchange?

 

[Abhishek]

@HotRocks, #reefsquad
I live in a very dry climate and my QT evaporation is ridiculous. I add ~1/2G per day for small 10G QT (also running 20G QT which takes ~3/4G+ per day). Currently my QT tank has frame mesh cover and is in Copper Power treatment stage with HOB and power head w/ air. I do have full glass lids for my tanks excluding tight cutouts for HOB, heater wire and power head wire and air tube. Could I use this or would it not provide enough oxygen/gas exchange?

If going that route , I would 1-2 wooden air stones and a strong air pump . Also it’s just me but I like to add a wave pump in qt to keep the surface agitated all the time .
How many fishes in the qt ?

 

[alpenreefer]

If going that route , I would 1-2 wooden air stones and a strong air pump . Also it’s just me but I like to add a wave pump in qt to keep the surface agitated all the time .
How many fishes in the qt ?

As noted, I am using HOB and power head with a venturi air supply providing plenty of surface agitation and micro bubbles galore. Would using these items with the full glass top still provide gas exchange? I'm just trying to eliminate some of the excessive evaporation, if possible.

 

[Abhishek]

As noted, I am using HOB and power head with a venturi air supply providing plenty of surface agitation and micro bubbles galore. Would using these items with the full glass top still provide gas exchange? I'm just trying to eliminate some of the excessive evaporation, if possible.

It should but I would keep a wooden airstone and an air pump handy. Also it depends on how many fishes you have in the qt and sizes.

Lastly , if you can have lower salinity and lower temp in qt as lower temp and lower salinity both ensures higher dissolved oxygen .

Most of my qt tanks run at 1.018-1.020 and temp of 74-75 .

Regards,
Abhishek

 

[alpenreefer]

It should but I would keep a wooden airstone and an air pump handy. Also it depends on how many fishes you have in the qt and sizes.

Lastly , if you can have lower salinity and lower temp in qt as lower temp and lower salinity both ensures higher dissolved oxygen .

Most of my qt tanks run at 1.018-1.020 and temp of 74-75 .

Regards,
Abhishek

Sorry, I forgot to include fish info. Currently only 4 small (<2") fish.

 

[Abhishek]

Sorry, I forgot to include fish info. Currently only 4 small (<2") fish.

Think you should be good with a HOB and power head providing surface agitation. I would lower temp if possible slowly to about 74-75 if you can and lower salinity to ensure maximum dissolved O2 .

Regards,
Abhishek

 

[HotRocks]

@HotRocks, #reefsquad
I live in a very dry climate and my QT evaporation is ridiculous. I add ~1/2G per day for small 10G QT (also running 20G QT which takes ~3/4G+ per day). Currently my QT tank has frame mesh cover and is in Copper Power treatment stage with HOB and power head w/ air. I do have full glass lids for my tanks excluding tight cutouts for HOB, heater wire and power head wire and air tube. Could I use this or would it not provide enough oxygen/gas exchange?

Personally, I don't like to cover QTs. However if I'm QTing jumpers I use 1/4" clear screen to cover the tank to still allow proper oxygenation.

I do agree with the advice above in regards to running medicated QTs at the lower temp and lower specific gravity for additional oxygenation as well. Especially when medicating.

 

[alpenreefer]

I am frequently asked what my process is for QT, so I am just creating a thread that I can link users to for a reference.

On arrival day, I match salinity in QT to arriving fish or make sure it's a touch lower (Usually 1.018).

Acclimate (float for 30-45min in bag and release) fish directly into a QT that is pre-dosed to 1.0ppm copper (copper power) upon arrival. This is much safer than drip acclimation and removes the possibility of ammonia exposure during acclimation.

I start fish off on food soaked general cure + Focus day one (continue for 14 days).
I do also keep live food on hand and feed live foods as well for the first few days until the picky eaters and others are eating frozen well.

Dosage for food soaked meds:
Add 1 scoop of GC (scoop that comes with focus) + 1 scoop focus per 1 tablsespoon of prepared frozen food. I add selcon + a touch of garlic to help dissolve the meds.
*You can also use Metroplex in place of general cure, it does however only treat for intestinal parasites instead of intestinal parasites + worms*. This food can be refrigerated once medicated. Is for 3-5 days, toss and make new.

Then I spend the next three days raising cu level to 2.0PPM. increasing the level .25ppm per day or several small doses (the time is less important than the small increments). I do this by dosing half of the daily increase in the am and the other half in the pm.

At this point I am watching very closely for external symptoms of bacterial infections. If one arises or a fish prone to infection stops eating then I dose Spectogram (Kanamycin+Nitrofurazone) and continue throughout copper. You can also use Kanaplex+furan-2. The WCs are fun maintaining the therapeutic Cu level. But once you have the hang of it, it's not bad. Copper has to be pre-dosed into new SW prior to adding to tank to keep Cu level from dropping below therapeutic.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/ratios-for-dosing-copper-power.385871/

Also, If you are combining ABX + Copper you need heavy agitation at the surface of the water. This can be best achieved by running a powerhead aimed upward at the surface. I also run air stone and HOB filter. The combination of these meds will deplete the water column of oxygen at a heavy rate so you have to compensate.

Keep in mind ABX are slow to work on fish. They are likely to be even slower in the presence of copper due to the weakened immune system. So the Spectogram IME has always prevented infection from worsening. Some have healed. I do also keep Sulfaplex and Neoplex handy for certain types of infections. They are safe to use with copper.

After 14 days of therapeutic copper I transfer to a 2nd sterile QT. Temp/salinity matching.

After the transfer if I have a fish that is still showing signs of infection I would run a 14 day course of NFG. If no signs of infection is present I would skip NFG.

Last step is two rounds of Praziquantel using either GC or Prazipro. I prefer GC as it contains metronidazole as well and covers a few other diseases like Brook and uronema. This treatment is dosed into the water column to treat externally, as I have covered internal issues during copper with the food soaked meds.

14 Days of observation post medications prior to transfer to DT in order to make sure the fish are healthy and disease free.

This is a very aggressive approach. I can tell you though I have improved my success rate significantly since adapting to this method. It is not bulletproof. The bottom line is you may have to changeup in the middle of the process due to unforeseen circumstances.

After the Hanna checker discovery I was getting fish through copper without much issue, but using the same tank and treating for 30 days I was losing fish in the 20-30 day range to bacterial infection. So now using multiple tanks and reducing the copper exposure time along with having the proper ABX to be used with/without copper it is what worked best for me. We are still working on tweaking it a bit. Most of this system was designed/adapted with much help of @Humblefish + @4FordFamily. To keep up with the unfortunate condition we have recently been receiving it may have to be altered as time passes.

I also preform FW dips if I see a fish scratching in copper (After 7 days at the therapeutic level) to check for flukes and/or provide temporary relief. If a fish arrives with velvet/velvet symptoms they get a FW dip as well as a 90 min Ruby Reef rally bath per @Humblefish's normal protocol.

Fish with suspected ammonia burn would receive a 30 min bath in Methalyne Blue.

My Personal Medication list:
Copper Power
API General Cure
NFG http://store.nationalfishpharm.com/NFP-products-Nitrofuracin-Green-59584.Item.html
Spectrogram http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquatronics.html#spectrogram
Kanaplex
Metroplex
Neoplex
Sulfaplex
Furan-2
Methalyne Blue
Ruby Reef Rally
Formalin

This is a very helpful link by @Humblefish regarding fish meds:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/medications-to-keep-on-hand.213574/

Couple other great links regarding QT:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/how-to-quarantine.189815/unread
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/the-dos-and-don’ts-of-quarantine.203898/unread
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/ammonia-control-in-a-hospital-tank.296119/

UPDATE: We have discovered at least one strain of velvet that survives 1.75 PPM copper, we recommend increasing to 2.0PPM to eradicate it.

@HotRocks you state above that following 14-days of therapeutic copper to transfer fish into a sterile QT followed by two rounds of GC during the 14-day observation period. Are we to follow the directions on the GC box (dose, wait 48 hours, 2nd dose, wait another 48 hours then do 25% WC)? Also, I still have a small amount of the medicated food (frozen), fed during the 14-day therapeutic copper treatment. Can I keep feeding this food or should I discontinue and begin non-medicated food (fish show no signs of internal issues)? Thanks for your help.

 

[alpenreefer]

@HotRocks In your "My Current QT Process" you say following 14-days of therapeutic copper to transfer fish into a sterile QT followed by two rounds of GC during another 14-day observation period. Are we to follow the directions on the GC box (dose, wait 48 hours, 2nd dose, wait another 48 hours then do 25% WC)?

Also, I still have a small amount of the medicated food (frozen), fed during the 14-day therapeutic copper treatment. Can I keep feeding this food or should I discontinue and begin non-medicated food (fish show no signs of internal issues)? Thanks for your help.

 

[HotRocks]

@HotRocks In your "My Current QT Process" you say following 14-days of therapeutic copper to transfer fish into a sterile QT followed by two rounds of GC during another 14-day observation period. Are we to follow the directions on the GC box (dose, wait 48 hours, 2nd dose, wait another 48 hours then do 25% WC)?

Also, I still have a small amount of the medicated food (frozen), fed during the 14-day therapeutic copper treatment. Can I keep feeding this food or should I discontinue and begin non-medicated food (fish show no signs of internal issues)? Thanks for your help.

You should be able to discontinue the feeding.

I wait 5-7 days between the 2 doses.

48hrs is not enough time for all eggs to hatch. Prazi only kills worms not eggs. So the 5-7 days allows enough time for the second dose to kill any newly hatched worms but take care of them before they start reproducing and laying new eggs.

 

[Jason Roth]

So I treated my fish originally with cupramine and then transferred them to an observation tank. I screwed up and took the sponge from my DT sump that was seeded and put it in the observation tank. So I need to treat with copper again to be safe. But I have copper power and wanted to use that instead so it's easier on them. The copper tank when I was done the first time I rinsed everything off and wip do it down and then put it all on a shelf. It has been about 3 weeks now.

Can I set it up and pre dose to 1.0 with the copper power or do I need to soak everything with like a vinegar and water mix first and let it air dry for a couple of days? I'm concerned about the two coppers mixing if there is any absorbed in the silicone in the tank or the power head, air stone, etc

 

[alpenreefer]

So I treated my fish originally with cupramine and then transferred them to an observation tank. I screwed up and took the sponge from my DT sump that was seeded and put it in the observation tank. So I need to treat with copper again to be safe. But I have copper power and wanted to use that instead so it's easier on them. The copper tank when I was done the first time I rinsed everything off and wip do it down and then put it all on a shelf. It has been about 3 weeks now.

Can I set it up and pre dose to 1.0 with the copper power or do I need to soak everything with like a vinegar and water mix first and let it air dry for a couple of days? I'm concerned about the two coppers mixing if there is any absorbed in the silicone in the tank or the power head, air stone, etc

Good catch with regard to the DT sponge going in the observation tank! Is the DT going thru a fallow period? Whether or not you need to rinse the dry QT and equipment with vinegar (or bleach solution) and let dry would be a good question for @HotRocks or #reefsquad.

 

[Jason Roth]

Good catch with regard to the DT sponge going in the observation tank! Is the DT going thru a fallow period? Whether or not you need to rinse the dry QT and equipment with vinegar (or bleach solution) and let dry would be a good question for @HotRocks or #reefsquad.

Yes going through fallow. July 6th is just past the 76 days. I want to do 14 days copper with medicated food and then I’ll put them in the DT.

 

[alpenreefer]

Yes going through fallow. July 6th is just past the 76 days. I want to do 14 days copper with medicated food and then I’ll put them in the DT.

Personally, I'd go thru the entire QT process, including the follow up observation period. What's another 10+ days observation after you've gone thru everything up to this point?

 

[Jason Roth]

Personally, I'd go thru the entire QT process, including the follow up observation period. What's another 10+ days observation after you've gone thru everything up to this point?

I’ve done that. First folks said it was ich so I treated for ich with copper for over 30 days and then put in observation. Then asking questions about accidentally putting the DT tank sponge in the observation tank, different folks thought it was Brook, so I treated for that with a rally bath and metro. Now in case it was ich as a precaution I’m going through copper again for 14 days. They have always ate great and they even had a dose of prazi as well. These fish were in observation when I first got them and were at the store for 3 months before I bought them. If they had Brook they would have been dead imo. So since the store got them to when I started treated with copper it was over 4 months. I personally think it showed up because of stress from drip acclimating. Never saw any of this before putting them into DT after the initial observation and prazi treatment.

 

[Jason Roth]

Personally, I'd go thru the entire QT process, including the follow up observation period. What's another 10+ days observation after you've gone thru everything up to this point?

Trying to attach pic but it’s not working right. And now it shows up in previous post. And this site won’t let me delete this post. Lol

 

[HotRocks]

So I treated my fish originally with cupramine and then transferred them to an observation tank. I screwed up and took the sponge from my DT sump that was seeded and put it in the observation tank. So I need to treat with copper again to be safe. But I have copper power and wanted to use that instead so it's easier on them. The copper tank when I was done the first time I rinsed everything off and wip do it down and then put it all on a shelf. It has been about 3 weeks now.

Can I set it up and pre dose to 1.0 with the copper power or do I need to soak everything with like a vinegar and water mix first and let it air dry for a couple of days? I'm concerned about the two coppers mixing if there is any absorbed in the silicone in the tank or the power head, air stone, etc

You are good to go on starting copper power. No need for vinegar.

I have switched between coppers on the fly with just a water change in between.

 

[Jason Roth]

You are good to go on starting copper power. No need for vinegar.

I have switched between coppers on the fly with just a water change in between.

Perfect thank you

 

[SeeFu]

question about dosing metro.

on seachems website it shows there are 2 ways to apply it.

1) just throw it into the water column (1-2 scoops / 10gal)
2) mix it in with food (1 scoop)

can you do both at the sametime to treat both internal and externally or does it have to be done 1 at a time?


i guess the same question can be asked of general cure. can you just just apply 1/2 the recommended dosage into the food and 1/2 into the water column.