My experience using 2 Ranco Heater controller through APEX

PedroYoung

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I'd like to start by saying thanks to @Water Dog for answering several questions in another thread on using and installing the Ranco Heater Controller. I've been using my 2016 Apex for heater control on my 200G tank for about 4 months. I have 2 500W Finex heaters. In my Apex control scheme I had one as the primary heater, coming on at 78.2 and off at 78.8. The second would come on at 78 and off at 78.6. This kept tight control, the primary being on most of the time and the secondary kicking on at night when the household temp would go down. I was concerned about the constant cycling of the EB832 relay, but didn't like what I read about reliability of most of the other hobby level temp controllers (Inkbird, BRS Inkbird knockoff etc) but liked what I'd seen of the Ranco ETC 111000 prewired controllers. Heavy duty industrial controller with robust relay. Main question I had was what control scheme to use? The Ranco has only whole digit settings (no tenths in the temp setpoint) and they have a minimum 1 degree deadband so I wondered if I would have to set one at 78 and one at 79 and have a 2 degree window of control or set them both at 79 and maybe they're both fighting each other, I wasn't sure. So I ordered 2, with the 2' shrink wrapped temp element and custom length on the cords (didn't need the standard 6' on the plug and 10' on the female end) for $78/each (Inkbird wifi controller is like $60).

Untitled by Peter Young, on Flickr

Untitled by Peter Young, on Flickr

Untitled by Peter Young, on Flickr

So how did I end up controlling them? Well, It turns out that the temp elements (not sure if they're thermisters or RTD's or what) are slightly off from one another (by about .25 deg). I could tell by looking at when the watts in the socket they were plugged into jumped (heater turning on) when they were both set at 79 deg. So with both set at 79, one stays on almost all the time and the second kicks on at Apex temp of 77.6 and kicks of at 78.6. I do get some overshoot when I am feeding and the return pump shuts off, but that's only in the sump.
temp screen.png


temp screen2.png


So now I just have some logic in the Apex saying if the temp gets over 82 deg turn the heaters off, and when it gets back down to 80 turn them back on. Super happy, and working great.

I was looking for a post like this when I was trying to decide what to do, so thought I'd share my experience for the next reefer with the same questions.

Untitled by Peter Young, on Flickr

Regal-8 by Peter Young, on Flickr

P
 

laverda

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I would not put both on the Apex. You lose redundancy that way. The rancho controller is more reliable than the Apex in my opinion. Just use the lower temp one directly. That way if you apex fails or does not restart properly, as they often do after a power outage you tank will still have heat.
 
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PedroYoung

PedroYoung

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I would not put both on the Apex. You lose redundancy that way. The rancho controller is more reliable than the Apex in my opinion. Just use the lower temp one directly. That way if you apex fails or does not restart properly, as they often do after a power outage you tank will still have heat.
My only thought on using the Apex was if the ranco relay got stuck "on" the Apex could shut off the outlet
 
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PedroYoung

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Personally I would trust the Rancho way more than the Apex.
To your point. Yesterday I started getting crazy alarms from my Apex. On/Off every couple seconds on "high temp". I have it set to alarm me at 82 deg and shut off the heater outlets. Fortunately I was home so went down to the basement sump. Heater outlets are off, and temp (from Apex probe) is reading 82.1. I overrode the Apex heater outlets and turned the Ranco's on. They were both reading 78. I pulled my Hanna salinity checker and it's temp was reading 77.7. Pulled the Apex temp probe out of the sump into ambient unheated basement air (about 64 degF) and it was reading 70. I have a spare temp probe for the Apex EL I'm putting on my office tank so swapped it out and it settled right at 78. I've had 2 Apex temp probes on my office tank (Apex Classic) for 5 yrs and they've never diverged more than 0.1 deg. So right now I have the Apex heater outlets forced to "on" instead of Auto. Will prob move the heaters off of them to direct household outlets. It's nice to be able to track the heater Watts so I can tell when I'm using 2 heaters vs 1 but that scared me. Geez, just can't make it easy and reliable for us...........
 

laverda

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I am very disappointed in my apex's reliability. My old aquacontrolers were and still are more reliable. Yes it has more features and fusion, but what good are they without reliability. Mine has failed on at least 4 occasions plus a display and an eb8 failure. The biggest failure being it not notifying me when things were going wrong! At least yours did that. I no longer rely on it for any critical functions.
 
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PedroYoung

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I am very disappointed in my apex's reliability. My old aquacontrolers were and still are more reliable. Yes it has more features and fusion, but what good are they without reliability. Mine has failed on at least 4 occasions plus a display and an eb8 failure. The biggest failure being it not notifying me when things were going wrong! At least yours did that. I no longer rely on it for any critical functions.
I agree. I work in industrial automation and water chemistry. Alas, my experience is in the water chemistry side, not the control/programming side. There are plenty of "inexpensive" industrial controllers out there, small PLC's, that are uber reliable, have ethernet etc. I would pay 50% premium for the reliability. Kinda scary when I think how much $$$, sweat equity, and just emotional attachment to the creatures I have in my 2 tanks.
 

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I agree. I work in industrial automation and water chemistry. Alas, my experience is in the water chemistry side, not the control/programming side. There are plenty of "inexpensive" industrial controllers out there, small PLC's, that are uber reliable, have ethernet etc. I would pay 50% premium for the reliability. Kinda scary when I think how much $$$, sweat equity, and just emotional attachment to the creatures I have in my 2 tanks.
Pedro how is the Ranco doing? I've never used one do you set it at a certain temp or a range of temps (ie on at 76 off at 77)? If that's the case would love to have it plugged into an apex outlet then have the apex at a wider range (say on at 75 off at 78).
 
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PedroYoung

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Pedro how is the Ranco doing? I've never used one do you set it at a certain temp or a range of temps (ie on at 76 off at 77)? If that's the case would love to have it plugged into an apex outlet then have the apex at a wider range (say on at 75 off at 78).
Rock solid. I have the Ranco's set at 79 deg with 1 deg deadband. They temp sensors are actually off by about 0.4 degF from one another so one acts as the workhorse and the second acts as a backup when the single 300W FInex element can't keep up. I've got them plugged into apex to act as a "kill" switch if I need, but haven't ever needed it (except when doing sump maintenance and I kill the heater circuits so they don't fry when water drops below heaters). I have the Apex set to turn off if temp ever gets over 82 degF.
 
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PedroYoung

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Would like to hear your recommendations (brand, model) based on your experience.
Can't really recommend anything for our hobby. Allen Bradley is the accepted standard in industrial automation, but to use for a tank it would require lots of customizing (think getting pH sensor and temp sensors into it). I sell a pH transmitter and sensor combo that goes for $3K (just for pH and temp). IMO Apex has a good concept (thus the huge mkt share), but could use more robust components. I'm fortunate that I can afford to keep spares of EVERYTHING including EB8's, probes, heaters etc.
 

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Can't really recommend anything for our hobby. Allen Bradley is the accepted standard in industrial automation, but to use for a tank it would require lots of customizing (think getting pH sensor and temp sensors into it). I sell a pH transmitter and sensor combo that goes for $3K (just for pH and temp). IMO Apex has a good concept (thus the huge mkt share), but could use more robust components. I'm fortunate that I can afford to keep spares of EVERYTHING including EB8's, probes, heaters etc.
I had my apex classic kick the bucket a couple weekends ago and glad I had a spare as well it knocked the stress way down. Expensive but worth it when it hits the fan.
 

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