My fish suddenly died tonight

[drblakjak55]

Unfortunately mysterious deaths and sudden disappearances of livestock and coral is part of the hobby.

 

[S.O.MLemos]

Don’t give up on the hobby over the loss. It’s very unfortunate and I’m sorry for your loss(I just lost my cheap scissortail dartfish Sunday that bailed while I was cleaning and I didn’t see him on the ground til the next morning and I was grumpy all day) If you lived close to southern Oregon I would give you a clown that’s living in my sump currently to keep you going lol

 

[Paul B]

Unfortunately it is impossible to tell why your fish died from here. Experienced hobbiests could have told you what was wrong with the tank and fish just before they died. Also I would have to know what the dead fish looked like just after they died. Besides being dead. I would have at least looked inside their gills with a low power magnifier. Without at least that, it is all guesswork. I will say that your fish did not die from algae or electricity.
Sorry.

 

[cycled123]

So sorry for your loss! I have lost 5 fish in the last few weeks. I know your pain and discouragement. I hope after careful thought that you find something to keep you going in the hobby be it a new fish or a neat new coral or a cool invert. I would hate to lose you!

 

[TikiBird]

Unfortunately it is impossible to tell why your fish died from here. Experienced hobbiests could have told you what was wrong with the tank and fish just before they died. Also I would have to know what the dead fish looked like just after they died. Besides being dead. I would have at least looked inside their gills with a low power magnifier. Without at least that, it is all guesswork. I will say that your fish did not die from algae or electricity.
Sorry.

Hi @Paul B,

I agree. Here are some pics of the bodies right after I found them dead. (Hope it’s okay to post dead fish pics on R2R)

I actually still have the bodies in the freezer (I wanted to bury them and we were waiting until the weather improved). I’m not sure I can get up the nerve to poke around the dead fish, but if I can, do you think it’s still possible to figure out the cause, or would the freezing have messed that up?

 

[TikiBird]

Thank you very much, @cycled123, @drblakjak55, and @S.O.MLemos. I appreciate the support. I guess my issue is that other than feeling dumb and discouraged, I am reluctant to start over with new fish when I’m not totally sure what killed these ones.

 

[TikiBird]

Not sure if these will help at all, but they’re the most recent images I have of my fish.

This is a pic from a couple of weeks ago of the littler clown with his new habit of snuggling in the toadstool.


This is a video from a few days ago of this nasty crab I spotted for the first time in the tank. There’s a clown photobomb in the front. Doesn’t show more than a second, but does show the body looks good and swimming normally (as I had observed up until I found them dead). Now I wish I had filmed the clowns!

 

[Paul B]

Very hard to see clearly but that last picture the fish seems to have a severe bacterial infection and the second dead fish above also has very little fins left.
Their eyes are clouded also. They died from that infection but that doesn't mean that is the cause. They could have had a number of things that progressed to that infection.
It would be difficult to tell now but if you have a low power magnifier like a jewelers loupe and you cut off the gill cover, you can inspect the gills and see if you notice any dots on the gills. I think it may be to late to see that now but the gills should look like delicate feathers with no holes or cuts in them. If you find that, the fish contracted some sort of parasites and the bacteria is a secondary infection.
But to be sure I would need the Hubble Telescope from here as I am in New York and I just came in from shoveling 2' of snow.
I am pretty sure it had nothing to do with oxygen or hydrogen sulfide. Parasites kill 95% of fish and I "think" thats what your fish had.

You can see some gills here but small fish like you have would be tiny

https://search.aol.com/aol/image?q=...I35DnclisE/s1600/Fresh+Gills.jpg&action=click

 

[TikiBird]

Very hard to see clearly but that last picture the fish seems to have a severe bacterial infection and the second dead fish above also has very little fins left.
Their eyes are clouded also. They died from that infection but that doesn't mean that is the cause. They could have had a number of things that progressed to that infection.
It would be difficult to tell now but if you have a low power magnifier like a jewelers loupe and you cut off the gill cover, you can inspect the gills and see if you notice any dots on the gills. I think it may be to late to see that now but the gills should look like delicate feathers with no holes or cuts in them. If you find that, the fish contracted some sort of parasites and the bacteria is a secondary infection.
But to be sure I would need the Hubble Telescope from here as I am in New York and I just came in from shoveling 2' of snow.
I am pretty sure it had nothing to do with oxygen or hydrogen sulfide. Parasites kill 95% of fish and I "think" thats what your fish had.

You can see some gills here but small fish like you have would be tiny

https://search.aol.com/aol/image?q=...I35DnclisE/s1600/Fresh+Gills.jpg&action=click

Thank you @paul b—I know you have been in the hobby many years and I really appreciate your input.

I think you must be right. I’m surprised because they had been eating well, active, and seemingly acting normally even the day they died. I had no idea they had an infection, and I hadn’t noticed fin rot or loss, if that’s what it would be called, but yes I do see it there on the second fish pic.

I’m not sure I can bring myself to start analyzing the dead fish, although it might be helpful. [emoji15] Maybe I can find someone I know who would do it for me!

 

[happyhourhero]

I agree based on the fin deterioration that there was illness rather than a sudden, unexplained death. I hate that they got sick on you! Losing fish is never fun.

 

[TikiBird]

I agree based on the fin deterioration that there was illness rather than a sudden, unexplained death. I hate that they got sick on you! Losing fish is never fun.

I’m so sad I missed this. My husband and I both watch them every day and their behavior was active and playful, with good appetites and no flashing or weird poop. Ugh.

 

[Paul B]

It takes time but you will soon notice on your fish if they have slightly cloudy eyes, a scale or two out of place and their fins should be clear with no tears, spots or deterioration. They should never shake their head back and fourth unless you are trying to feed them flake food and they are saying, No.

 

[andyg1960]

Thanks, Salty. Yes I think I am more upset than my son. Although he is currently hiding under a blanket so I’m not sure.

So sorry, especially sorry when children are upset.

 

[rkpetersen]

Really sorry to hear about this. Fish illness and sudden death is too common, and you rack your brain trying to figure out what happened, when all tank parameters are in the green. Sudden coral deaths happen the same way, too. It's heartbreaking. I see families with little kids at the lfs all the time; the parents really should all be given a clear warning about how fragile this aquatic life is, before they're sold anything. Marine fish aren't like a puppy or kitten. If you're in the hobby long enough (usually, not that long), things will die on you. It can be hard to come to terms with that reality.

If the problem really was acutely low dissolved O2 (which I'm not convinced of, given that your tank is not by any means stuffed with things that respire), you might consider dropping the tank temperature to 77 or even 76. Lower water temperature = higher oxygen solubility.

 

[Lasse]

A comment - prolonged stress (as non lethal oxygen stress) itself can give a secondary bacterial infection because the immun system will be supressed. And a dead fish always look bad because bacteria grows rather fast when the fish die. I´m not convinced of anything either - how could I be that - sitting on the other side of the Atlantic - but the first description from the OP did not indicate any illness caused by microorganisms. And a death of two fishes - seemed healthy the day before - on the same night does not indicate a bacteria or other microorganisms illness. In the first post OP mentioned a lot of algae - however - the pictures do not show a dense population of corals or algae. The picture was publish after my post and I agree - that picture do not indicate much of things that respire. But still - The description do not indicate a biological illness.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Katrina71]

Ok Tikibird, I'm gonna have to give ya the mom talk. Is giving up what you want to teach your son? This may be an excellent way to show your son a bigger life lesson about love and loss. We recently went through the same thing. My son has said several times how glad he is that we got another Tailspot and Pederson.

 

[TikiBird]

A comment - prolonged stress (as non lethal oxygen stress) itself can give a secondary bacterial infection because the immun system will be supressed. And a dead fish always look bad because bacteria grows rather fast when the fish die. I´m not convinced of anything either - how could I be that - sitting on the other side of the Atlantic - but the first description from the OP did not indicate any illness caused by microorganisms. And a death of two fishes - seemed healthy the day before - on the same night does not indicate a bacteria or other microorganisms illness. In the first post OP mentioned a lot of algae - however - the pictures do not show a dense population of corals or algae. The picture was publish after my post and I agree - that picture do not indicate much of things that respire. But still - The description do not indicate a biological illness.

Sincerely Lasse

Thanks, @Lasse. I agree the fish look worse in the post-mortem photos than they did earlier in the day when they were alive. I didn’t notice any eye cloudiness then, although I can see it in the photo now.

The deaths at the same time strike me as odd no matter what happened.

In any case, I truly appreciate you and everyone here taking the time to think about my fish and try to help! [emoji169]

 

[TikiBird]

Ok Tikibird, I'm gonna have to give ya the mom talk. Is giving up what you want to teach your son? This may be an excellent way to show your son a bigger life lesson about love and loss. We recently went through the same thing. My son has said several times how glad he is that we got another Tailspot and Pederson.

Oh no, the mom talk! LOL!

My son would definitely prefer we keep the tank going. He was very sad about Trick and Treat, but I think he would enjoy new clowns. It is a main reason that I’m reluctant to take it down. But I have also told him that I’m not sure I want to jump in again now, and he said if we did take it down, we should give away our shrimp and snails to people who would give them a good home (as opposed to the LFS I guess). He’s a sweetie.

I think the main thing holding me and my husband back from plunging ahead now is that I’m just not sure we should go forward not being certain of what killed these guys. I’m worried that whatever it was will happen again. Sigh.

Thanks again for the mom talk. I will keep it in mind for sure.

 

[Lasse]

A mistake is a mistake - a mistake without learning - it is a catastrophe And remember - our (at least my) knowledge is an endless row of mistakes - and I know much because I have live for a long time - and had many opportunities to do mistake (and still do)

And as someone said - Learn of own mistakes - it great but learn from others mistake - that’s wisdom.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[TikiBird]

I’m thinking maybe I will get a dissolved oxygen test kit. I don’t know if the reading would mean anything now, but it might tell me something.

I did notice when I would occasionally put an airstone in the tank, the fish would be more active and lively. I was actually considering putting one in all the time because they liked playing with the bubbles, but I hadn’t gotten around to it yet.

Their activeness with the bubbler makes me wonder if I didn’t ever have enough gas exchange going on with my cube.

Edit to add: I’m not saying that there was some kind of massive oxygen disaster that killed them necessarily, but it might have just been a combination of smaller mistakes that added up, one of which was maybe long-term not enough oxygen...? It’ll be something to test for at least.