Neptune APEX Reliability (Shocking in my experience!)

[Thales]

Perhaps in your opinion shilling is deliberate, but that's not the actual definition. I'll post it again, as you don't seem to understand based on your comments about the 'negative shill':

"A shill, also called a plant or a stooge, is a person who publicly helps or gives credibility to a person or organization without disclosing that they have a close relationship with the person or organization."

If you were given a free radion (for example):

MnFish Post - 'Hey radions are amazing, you should buy one' = shilling
MnFish Post - 'Hey, I got a free radion and they are amazing, you should buy one' = not shilling.

Hope that helps ;)

But that isn’t the definition of shill - that is part of the Wikipedia entry on shills, and the part you posted doesn’t include some important stuff that is included in the entry. Here is a definition of shill:

 

[MnFish1]

Where has this been suggested? Nowhere in my posts



This is what I am saying, and have been saying throughout :rolleyes:



Exactly why I am suggesting that people should disclose such a relationship if one exists. Then we might have a clue.



You have contradicted yourself in a single post: "Now - if the company whose product they are discussing insisted -or is paying them or there is some kind of ongoing relationship with the company - they should disclose it."

The problem is that you have no way to know if someone is being truthful. The point is that if they have a relationship with the vendor, then disclosing in makes them more transparent (or truthful) with their appraisal of the product.



Wow - it's still early any you've already won the award for the most hyprocital post of the day ;Nailbiting



Therein lies the problem. You don't appear to have correctly read understand my posts. Unfortunately nothing I can do can make up for your incapacity to do this, repeatedly.

I am not accusing anyone of being a shill because they disagree with me. I've not really voiced an opinion on the subject. Just that people can be seen as operate as shills because they are not disclosing how they interact(ed) with a company.

Perhaps if you elected to spend a little more time reading other people's posts rather than jumping to incorrect conclusions you would be a little less confused.

PS - I'm now the second (@saf1 was the first who has called you on this) who you have replied to saying they should read your posts more carefully before responding. Perhaps its the wording in your posts that is at least part of the problem? To me - implying that anyone in this forum (with no evidence) is a shill (unless they disclose that they have been a beta tester or received a product) - to me is unfriendly - and doesn't follow the spirit of the forum. My problem with your comments mainly has to do with your use of that word - Because using the definition that @Thales and I both posted - I doubt there are many (if any) people here who meet that definition.

 

[porter_painter]

But that isn’t the definition of shill - that is part of the Wikipedia entry on shills, and the part you posted doesn’t include some important stuff that is included in the entry. Here is a definition of shill:

Try clicking this button:

And you'll get this:

Which is pretty much the same as the wikipedia definition that's also provided on the page:

So your point is what? Both the dictionary and wikipedia give similar definitions which highlighted the point being made.

 

[porter_painter]

Exactly what I have meant by shill has been clearly stated by me since my second post in the thread.

Getting hung up on a different meaning strikes me as odd, or perhaps it's just a diversionary tactic like asking for statistics that we're unlikely to get.

 

[MnFish1]

Try clicking this button:

And you'll get this:

Which is pretty much the same as the wikipedia definition that's also provided on the page:

So your point is what? Both the dictionary and wikipedia give similar definitions which highlighted the point being made.

Last response on this topic - In my first reply to you - I mentioned that shill had a negative connotation to many people and that I didnt think it was appropriate to call other posters on this thread without any evidence. There are many words in the English language that are ' normal' to some people - but many others find they mean something that is not positive or 'bad'. Even in the definition you highlighted above - mention shill is the equivalent of 'plant or stooge' - who on this forum would you like to label with those words?

 

[Peanut]

I have been using Neptune equipment for about 10 years, maybe more. At this point I have 2 classic and 1 apex 2016 on 3 different systems. I've had some issues over the years but have been mostly happy. About a year ago I became an insider and beta tested the interface between the apex and ai lighting (I have 2 hydra 52s over the tank with the apex 2016). Issues were found and fixed and ultimately released to the public.

Yes, I signed up to be an insider because I like the product, it only makes sense that people that like the product would want to make it better.

From what I am hearing here, if I identify myself as a neptune insider, my opinion and/or anecdotal data are now suspect because I have a "relationship" with the company

ridiculous

 

[porter_painter]

Last response on this topic - In my first reply to you - I mentioned that shill had a negative connotation to many people and that I didnt think it was appropriate to call other posters on this thread without any evidence. There are many words in the English language that are ' normal' to some people - but many others find they mean something that is not positive or 'bad'. Even in the definition you highlighted above - mention shill is the equivalent of 'plant or stooge' - who on this forum would you like to label with those words?

Shilling should have a negative connotation because shilling is a negative action.

No poster on this thread has been called a shill.

If there are people posting positive content about a brand or sponsor, without disclosing their beneficial relationship to that brand or sponsor, then they are literally a shill, a plant, stooge, patsy ...choose whichever you like.

Disclosure is key. If someone states a vested interest, they are being transparent and they are not shilling. It does not make their opinion or comment more or less valid, but the readers can conclude for themselves how much weight they put to that person's opinion.

It is no different to how 'influencers' on certain social media must now disclose where they have been incentivised to talk about a product or service. It does not prevent the influencer making a statement, it simply allows the viewer to understand why that person may have ulterior motivation to make the statements in the first place.

It's not rocket science really.

 

[robbyg]

life.

I have been using Neptune equipment for about 10 years, maybe more. At this point I have 2 classic and 1 apex 2016 on 3 different systems. I've had some issues over the years but have been mostly happy. About a year ago I became an insider and beta tested the interface between the apex and ai lighting (I have 2 hydra 52s over the tank with the apex 2016). Issues were found and fixed and ultimately released to the public.

Yes, I signed up to be an insider because I like the product, it only makes sense that people that like the product would want to make it better.

From what I am hearing here, if I identify myself as a neptune insider, my opinion and/or anecdotal data are now suspect because I have a "relationship" with the company

ridiculous

Nah those two are just hashing out the definition of shilling, to death ;) . Anybody can like a product, can beta test the product and then give their opinion. It's when people make posts defending every aspect of the product without disclosing that they have a relationship with the company that it can become problematic.

You just disclosed that you have a relationship with Neptune. I will certainly read and take your view point into consideration but Yes I also weigh that against the fact that you are in that relationship with them. That's the price you have to pay for being part of a company or on their team. On the flip side there are lots of benefits as people look to you at product launch to provide answers and you will probably do future testing if you were good at it the first time.

I use to navigate the Aquatronica Controller forum on RC very well. Most of the time I did not inject an opinion into an argument, I would instead just rebuke a statement if I knew for certain it was wrong. That required having facts to show the person was wrong. Luckily we did not have much of a reliability issue but more of a support issue and most of the time I just agreed with them. In the case of Neptunes Apex systems reliability, it's hard to defend it since only they know how many units get returned for repair. All we have to go on is forum posts, and so far that is not painting a very pretty picture.

 

[User1]

Exactly what I have meant by shill has been clearly stated by me since my second post in the thread.

Getting hung up on a different meaning strikes me as odd, or perhaps it's just a diversionary tactic like asking for statistics that we're unlikely to get.

I don't think it is one getting hung up on a different meaning. It is really the person interpreting what was written and their understanding of the word. Or at least what comes to their mind first. I think in our replies (you and I) I took it as hawk, swindler, etc. I believe your intent was invested interest. Internet or other media sound bits are a real pain in the butt to figure out sometimes...

In either case I believe the invested bit is also moot since I believe we are talking about the public aquarium and as he stated they went to purchase and the vendor provided it for free. No hidden agenda as it was called out clearly. Home use is paid for out of their own pocket. Also if you have listened to any of the pod casts he also states he is a fan, actually I believe he said fanboy, because they work.

Lastly - had GHL or any other provider had been close or better US coverage they would have looked into them as well. Just isn't the case at that time (I can't speak for today).

Honestly I've sort of stayed out of the thread a bit the last couple of days but wanted to chime in here. I know this goes without saying but it is always hard to know how the other person behind the keyboard is going to get the meaning. Especially if there is an added language or culture barrier. Not the case here but figured I'd throw it out there.

Having said that it is Tuesday. Blue Angels are gone. Air show was pretty cool seeing my tax dollars flying around the sky. Some people see blue and yellow and I see shades of green - go figure :)

 

[robbyg]

Back to the basic intent of the thread: It is my opinion that it is unreliable. This is based off multiple failures of my own practical experience (that I obviously feel strong about). I believe the reason behind the unreliability is skimping on manufacturing with Neptune relying on vertical integration to keep their user base tied to their products. I’ve chosen not to endorse that business direction by changing courses to a new controller- The company I chose is confident enough with all their products that each one stands alone, not requiring any other piece of their equipment to run. I am not paid by either company and won’t be giving Neptune another dime.

I hear you, I wish the USA controller market had more companies in it and therefore more competition. Unfortunately the big retailers have made this more difficult than it needs to be.

This whole situation is like the 1970's when everyone buying a car bought a Ford or Chevy and the mention of a Japanese car was laughed at. That really stifled the market for many years, but by the 1990s the market had made a complete 180! Amazingly through all of this turmoil most American auto makers have still not fully woken up yet and gotten with the program.

When it comes to Aquarium equipment the Europeans are just way ahead of us. No one country is good at everything and sometimes we just have to admit that another country takes a particular hobby a lot more seriously than us. Just look at all the high quality equipment that is made in Europe and you really get an idea that for the average reefer over there is looking at durability and reliability a lot more than reefers over here. We are getting there with Ecotech and some others but it's still slow going.

 

[Peanut]

Nah those two are just hashing out the definition of shilling, to death ;) . Anybody can like a product, can beta test the product and then give their opinion. It's when people make posts defending every aspect of the product without disclosing that they have a relationship with the company that it can become problematic.

You just disclosed that you have a relationship with Neptune. I will certainly read and take your view point into consideration but Yes I also weigh that against the fact that you are in that relationship with them. That's the price you have to pay for being part of a company or on their team. On the flip side there are lots of benefits as people look to you at product launch to provide answers and you will probably do future testing if you were good at it the first time.

I use to navigate the Aquatronica Controller forum on RC very well. Most of the time I did not inject an opinion into an argument, I would instead just rebuke a statement if I knew for certain it was wrong. That required having facts to show the person was wrong. Luckily we did not have much of a reliability issue but more of a support issue and most of the time I just agreed with them. In the case of Neptunes Apex systems reliability, it's hard to defend it since only they know how many units get returned for repair. All we have to go on is forum posts, and so far that is not painting a very pretty picture.

I strongly disagree with how you are phrasing things. I do not "have a relationship with Neptune", I am not "part of a company or on their team". When I signed up to be an insider I did it for MY benefit, not theirs. Yes, they benefited, but that was not my motivation. I was never compensated either monetarily or with discounted equipment. I don't get preferential treatment for support calls. They asked me for feedback and I gave it to them. That's all and nothing else.

 

[Thales]

Try clicking this button:

And you'll get this:

Which is pretty much the same as the wikipedia definition that's also provided on the page:

So your point is what? Both the dictionary and wikipedia give similar definitions which highlighted the point being made.

I posted the difference earlier and you ignored it, I should not have tried again. My bad. Have a good day.

 

[smartwater101]

Since we're throwing definitions around :p

 

[robbyg]

I think the really smart move being made here is to keep the thread totally off topic. I think most readers are really tired of hearing about the definition of a Shill. It's been a back and forth on the Shill thing for two pages!

 

[smartwater101]

:rolleyes:

I think the really smart move being made here is to keep the thread totally off topic. I think most readers are really tired of hearing about the definition of a Shill. It's been a back and forth on the Shill thing for two pages!

Yup,

Fanboys be trollin'

And they have been since page one. No need to talk about the actual issues when they can redirect, and then pretend they're "just having a friendly conversation" if you call them out on it. :rolleyes:

Everytime Neptune issues come up, WOW do the fanboys come out of the woodwork to defend dang near anything. And before the trolls start playing the victim card, let me clarify: There is a huge difference between a fan and a fanboy.








I suggest everyone here, and anyone who stumbles upon this thread, do one thing:

 

[MnFish1]

:rolleyes:


Yup,

Fanboys be trollin'

And they have been since page one. No need to talk about the actual issues when they can redirect, and then pretend they're "just having a friendly conversation" if you call them out on it. :rolleyes:

Everytime Neptune issues come up, WOW do the fanboys come out of the woodwork to defend dang near anything. And before the trolls start playing the victim card, let me clarify: There is a huge difference between a fan and a fanboy.








I suggest everyone here, and anyone who stumbles upon this thread, do one thing:

Funny thing is I'm not a fanboy lol:). I am one of the first people that said it was unreliable. I agree with the rest who say its unreliable. I just dont believe in insults (whether perceived or real) against other members of this supposedly 'friendly forum'. Thats what the last 2 pages were about - not per say the definition of a word. :)

 

[deplinger]

Quick question while I have the audience for it:

My screen died.... is there something else I can connect/replace it with that is better? I like walking by and seeing the temp/pH and just knowing the tank is “good”. I Can’t justify spending $100 just to see the temp though, and my ink-bird or whatever is ugly and is inder the stand (and dead out of the box, or maybe it is my heater. either way, I have awful luck!)

Can I set an iPad etc up to it as the display, and have it on 24/7 if left plugged in?

I am using a small Samsung Tab I had laying around to display. I leave it plugged in 24/7. I had to put it in developer mode so it would not go to sleep. You may need to do that to the ipad as well. You could also use an old smart phone as well.

 

[robbyg]

Funny thing is I'm not a fanboy lol:). I am one of the first people that said it was unreliable. I agree with the rest who say its unreliable. I just dont believe in insults (whether perceived or real) against other members of this supposedly 'friendly forum'. Thats what the last 2 pages were about - not per say the definition of a word. :)

I don't think he was referring to you. ;)

 

[dbl]

Regardless of the definition of Shill, Fanboy or Fan, it’s not the point of this thread and quite honestly not in the realm of what R2R is all about. We are family friendly, “Be Nice” forum and we take that seriously. We enjoy and actually encourage healthy debates and conversation, but they must be done respectfully. I think we can all agree name calling, regardless of how you define it, is contrary to our culture here on R2R.

So please, if you have a comment regarding the topic of the thread, please present it. It’s time to move this along and get back on topic. We value each and every member and appreciate your cooperation.

 

[Lifelongaquaria]

Had new Apex three days already seeing serious problems. Woke up this morning and my readings were all static in same spot as when I went to sleep. Refuge light never came on as well. I unplug it to reset it (which I couldn't do if I was gone) and now salinity and orp probes are reading zero. This is supposed to be the reliable good stuff very worried and don't like what I'm seeing. If things don't go right with support today I will be looking for a new controller to run my tanks and my horticulture biz. They will be losing out if they can't make this right because some company is gonna make serious money off of me as a repeat customer as my needs are only growing.