Neptune & GHL

[Daniel@R2R]

Guys, guys, calm down. I just thought it was funny that you were comparing GHL to iphone since their software only runs on Windows. It is IRONIC that this comparison was made. That. Is. All.

 

[JoshH]

LOL, this has been a rather tense thread

 

[Daniel@R2R]

For the record, I think both controllers (Apex and Profilux) are excellent options. I think both excel at most things they do. There are a few points where I regard Apex as superior and a few points where I think Profilux wins, but ultimately both are great options. Which one you buy will likely come down to which features you are valuing most in a controller.

 

[Reefcowboy]

The Apex was very solid until the new model came out. I dont recall any comments about failures with that system anywhere. That was when the popularity of the controller grew exponentially in the US. Remember GHL's was already out, but nobody really talked about it. The DOS was out, all other modules and accessories as well and everyone talked about the great quality of manufacturing with Neptune.

Then the new unit came in June '16, and Neptune had downfalls with components being of bad quality. Maybe they rushed things a bit, as around that time their unveiling of any new product grabbed everyone's attention. IMO that was the failing point. Soon after that they found the issues and tried to repair the problem while replacing the bad units.
I was one of them, had two consecutive bad units disconnecting from the wifi. Customers had tanks crash and so on.

Here we are a few months later, issues with the controller are fixed, and due to the period of issues with the new model, everyone now calls the brand crap? How is that assessment true? I read on another thread someone pointing a study: "a bad experience is shared with 15 people; while a good one is shared with only 3". To know how faulty something is, you have to take into acct how many are out there...I personally can count dozens of friends that own the Apex, cant think of one that owns GHL. Not throwing jabs at the german, but lets be reasonable, you most likely will hear of issues with what is out there.

Funny I read this on the ATI Powermodule forum, a light fixture that costs $2,500.00 for a 60" version, and a customer was angry that the led reflectors of his unit, burnt to crisp were replaced a "casual" 8 months later by their warranty. Does that mean ATI is crap?
Absolutely not, let see how many ATI units are out and make the assessment...

 

[JoshH]

Once again, wildly off course I think, this poor guy is going to have to read through 2 pages of useless ranting to get one answer he's looking for. Obviously apex being widely sold far more than GHL is going to have more documented issues. I've read lots of issues about there DOS and wave pumps as well. I have also read issues with GHL although all the issues I have ever read have been with there Profilux 2's and nothing since then. Yes apex had issues at first with there new release and they have fixed them. Which is great and there are tons of people who are happy with there apexs including yourself obviously. Clearly the owner of this thread isn't entirely happy with his for whatever reason and is looking for info from those users who have switched. I'll be posting a link for him in a minute with another user who is switching over and he gives his reasons.

People who have had very bad experiences with Apex are obviously going to have very strong and sometimes very negative opinions and those who haven't had any issues at all are going to "fight to the death" to defend apex so to speak. We've seen both sides in this discussion and really it would be nice to only see info from those who have switched from here on out to help him decide on whether or not it is worth it to switch.

 

[JoshH]

Although I have never owned a Profilux controller before (I have personally had an Apex until this point), but many people may be upgrading from an earlier Profilux controller. As many of the accessories and add-one may be compatible with all lines of the Profilux controller, I was wondering if there was anywhere that specifically compared the new P4 controller to the prior versions, showing the specific upgrades and improvements made to the controller itself. I'm really excited to have the P4 controller and the selling point for me, was owning the GHL Doser 2 and seeing how easy and intuitive the software and programming was. I was just curious to see what the actual upgrades to the controller itself were, from the prior p3 version.

As promised something a little more tuned to the thread. This user seems to be making the switch after owning the doser and liking the ease of use and programming. This is from the Profilux 4 announcement thread.

 

[Reefer525XL]

ok guys can we stick to the original question

Just to touch of some of the topics that have been discussed so far... The DOS ever since it came out threads keep popping up of units failing and same with the new Apex... I don't thin the DOS was rushed out but the new Apex, absolutely. Im expecting the flow metering kits to be flawless since its been two years since the announcement and we are just seeing the product being tested now.

 

[fredro]

As promised something a little more tuned to the thread. This user seems to be making the switch after owning the doser and liking the ease of use and programming. This is from the Profilux 4 announcement thread.

This is certainly the case for me. I tend to get OCD with my equipment and when I got an Apex about a year and a half ago as the first controller I ever bought, I went out and got all the add-ons, all the modules that served my specific needs and when I had an issue, I was disappointed by Neptune as a company. THIS is where the choice to transition started for me, even before the new P4 was released. I had a warranty issue and after owning similar products in this hobby, I was maybe spoiled in how I felt a customer should be treated, but when compared to such fantastic customer service offered by EcoTech, Neptune fell FAR Short. To have an issue with your MAIN controller, under warranty, and to be told that you have to either spend another $130 on a spare brain OR wait without a controller, AND be held responsible for the shipping charges to send it in, is just ridiculous IMHO. When my second-hand Ecotech MP10wES had an issue, a month out of its original warranty, with the controller, EcoTech had a controller at my doorstep, the next business day, with a prepaid return label in the box. And THAT is how you do customer service. Since thy day I have been a Loyal EcoTech customer and will ALWAYS be. I cannot say enough good things about their company on EVERY LEVEL. Anyway... back to the point. So although I was holding out for a full EcoTech controller, it just wasn't happening soon enough so, like many people I know, I bought the Apex Controller as I felt there weren't that many relevant options in the US market, that don't require open source programming and had the support required to get your tank up and running. The one thing I give Neptune credit for is Fusion. Fusion is much easier than the classic interface and the ability to connect anywhere at anytime, while not being charged a monthly fee is one thing I liked. Then when I needed a doser, I heard the horror stories of the DöS and with just 2 pump heads that still command the price of most 4 head doser a out there (and one of the uglier designs I've ever seen), I definitely wasn't buying one or say two of these. I stuck with a Jebao doser for over a year that did everything I needed and never skipped a beat, while the Apex controlled everything else. Then when I got wind of the GHL doser 2 and saw how good it looked and how much it could do, I decided to upgrade my doser. Once I had the doser hooked up and programmed within an hour or so, with the wifi capabilities and ease of intuitive programming, I was more than satisfied. Then, after a few more "service" issues with my Apex components and the release of the New Apex, I was getting less and less impressed. The new Apex was so ugly to me and the way it seemed, that if you wanted to keep up with the new releases, you had better bring your checkbook for add on modules or just upgrade to the new one. And finally as I saw the GHL P4 release announcement a day or so before my birthday, plus the word on the new alk and Ca probes (not like the automatic reagent testing catastrophe of a massive box of tubes, that Neptune ha stage rights to), I was sold on dumping my Apex and I preordered the P4 mega set that evening.

Adios Apex.

 

[jhatfield]

So what are the differences between the interfaces? I understand (correct me here if I'm wrong) that Apex is web based and thus Mac/PC agnostic while GHL is PC and web based. Does the web interface for GHL have the same functionality as the PC software?

 

[JoshH]

This is certainly the case for me. I tend to get OCD with my equipment and when I got an Apex about a year and a half ago as the first controller I ever bought, I went out and got all the add-ons, all the modules that served my specific needs and when I had an issue, I was disappointed by Neptune as a company. THIS is where the choice to transition started for me, even before the new P4 was released. I had a warranty issue and after owning similar products in this hobby, I was maybe spoiled in how I felt a customer should be treated, but when compared to such fantastic customer service offered by EcoTech, Neptune fell FAR Short. To have an issue with your MAIN controller, under warranty, and to be told that you have to either spend another $130 on a spare brain OR wait without a controller, AND be held responsible for the shipping charges to send it in, is just ridiculous IMHO. When my second-hand Ecotech MP10wES had an issue, a month out of its original warranty, with the controller, EcoTech had a controller at my doorstep, the next business day, with a prepaid return label in the box. And THAT is how you do customer service. Since thy day I have been a Loyal EcoTech customer and will ALWAYS be. I cannot say enough good things about their company on EVERY LEVEL. Anyway... back to the point. So although I was holding out for a full EcoTech controller, it just wasn't happening soon enough so, like many people I know, I bought the Apex Controller as I felt there weren't that many relevant options in the US market, that don't require open source programming and had the support required to get your tank up and running. The one thing I give Neptune credit for is Fusion. Fusion is much easier than the classic interface and the ability to connect anywhere at anytime, while not being charged a monthly fee is one thing I liked. Then when I needed a doser, I heard the horror stories of the DöS and with just 2 pump heads that still command the price of most 4 head doser a out there (and one of the uglier designs I've ever seen), I definitely wasn't buying one or say two of these. I stuck with a Jebao doser for over a year that did everything I needed and never skipped a beat, while the Apex controlled everything else. Then when I got wind of the GHL doser 2 and saw how good it looked and how much it could do, I decided to upgrade my doser. Once I had the doser hooked up and programmed within an hour or so, with the wifi capabilities and ease of intuitive programming, I was more than satisfied. Then, after a few more "service" issues with my Apex components and the release of the New Apex, I was getting less and less impressed. The new Apex was so ugly to me and the way it seemed, that if you wanted to keep up with the new releases, you had better bring your checkbook for add on modules or just upgrade to the new one. And finally as I saw the GHL P4 release announcement a day or so before my birthday, plus the word on the new alk and Ca probes (not like the automatic reagent testing catastrophe of a massive box of tubes, that Neptune ha stage rights to), I was sold on dumping my Apex and I preordered the P4 mega set that evening.

Adios Apex.

Thank you very much for a much better and detailed description of your situation.

 

[ReefRocker]

So what are the differences between the interfaces? I understand (correct me here if I'm wrong) that Apex is web based and thus Mac/PC agnostic while GHL is PC and web based. Does the web interface for GHL have the same functionality as the PC software?

The GHL Control Center PC software is where 100% of the features are available. Through their cloud service myGHL, you can view and edit your controller settings as well as make changes to connected devices such as Doser 2, Mitras LEDs. The only things you cannot do from myGHL is make changes to the email settings, pab-device assignments, and firmware updates.

The controller settings can also be accessed by from the iOS/Android app and web server.

All in all, you have multiple ways to access the ProfiLux as it is not reliant on a single access source.

 

[jhatfield]

The GHL Control Center PC software is where 100% of the features are available. Through their cloud service myGHL, you can view and edit your controller settings as well as make changes to connected devices such as Doser 2, Mitras LEDs. The only things you cannot do from myGHL is make changes to the email settings, pab-device assignments, and firmware updates.

So initial setup (assigning powerbar outlets, email, etc.) has to be done on PC, correct?

 

[fredro]

I set up my doser 2 through the Pc software and started playing around with the myGHL web interface, but it was a little bit glitchy at the time and since then I have moved and am getting the new tank set up, awaiting the delivery of my P4 to get everything up and running. I'm hoping the myGHL website is fully functional at that time.

 

[ReefRocker]

I cannot say yes or no to the P4 since it hasn't hit the US yet, but I do know that you do need the PC software to get the power bars and other devices assigned.

IMO, it's not a big issue for even Mac users since they can easily run GHL Control Center by running Windows in boot camp.

 

[JoshH]

I cannot say yes or no to the P4 since it hasn't hit the US yet, but I do know that you do need the PC software to get the power bars and other devices assigned.

IMO, it's not a big issue for even Mac users since they can easily run GHL Control Center by running Windows in boot camp.

It will be the same set up for the P4 from what I have gathered on there release thread and a second thread they have no intention in the near future of producing a mac compatible start up as there myghl is cross platform and most consumers who run macs are as stated above well equipped to handle pc software. Therefor it isn't worth the extra development costs to come out with a second set of software.

 

[JoshH]

"The other issue I have is that I am a Mac user, and while I realize there are ways to use a Mac with GHL (Dennis has a great post about 3 ways to do this), I am VERY hopeful that maybe GHL will help us Mac users out by offering their software in a Mac compatible format so we don't have to jump through the software hoops we currently have to. So...that's my wish list for Profilux...an option to expand to 6-8 outlet powerbars and Mac compatible software."

That we have a dedicated feature-rich PC-software which has been designed for professonal use doesn't mean you have to use it.

Use our cloud service myGHL - this is platform independent!

I think some people get this wrong, they complain that we have "only" a PC software - but keep in mind that other companies have no PC and/or Mac software at all and have only web based tools!
So if you compare you should see we offer the cloud service and as an free add-on our professional GHL Control Center.

That said, it is not that simple to just write something for Mac. We have been working on the PC software now for nearly 20 years, it is impossible (unaffordable) to do all this again for Mac, you can't afford to invest tenthousands of $ for a free software, at least not in this industry. Consider this: It is something completely different when for instance companies like Adobe with Photoshop with millions of paying customers have versions for several OS - this is just impossible for smaller companies, especially when all should be free.

We better put our energy in myGHL.

Hopefully that explains some things - from another thread

 

[d2mini]

I'm hoping the myGHL website is fully functional at that time.

It is. Out of the box I used the PC software to get the I.D. needed to sign the doser into MyGHL, and from then on all dosing setup/programming has been done exclusively through MyGHL.
Initial setup was 6 months ago.
I haven't even used the mobile app yet.

 

[Dom274]

For what it's worth, I work in IT and I'd say that any and all "user reviews" are completely worthless for an aquarium controller. There is no easy way to isolate the hardware, software and user from each other to actually determine what would be the cause of an issue. Someone who complains about issues with an Apex very well may have issues with GHL due to user error. For example, I haven't noticed anyone who has their apex and all accessories on backup batteries. So, if you have a power flicker, all of you modules will disconnect/reconnect to the head unit - Which is a disaster waiting to happen. Nothing in the logs will tell you what happened, leaving one to easily jump to the conclusion that the unit is junk. Can't say anything about bad customer support though... You have to be available for your customers...

 

[Clownfishy]

I don't have either but at the moment, looking at buying one of them. My summary is

Apex (what's good)
fusion software wipes the floor with myGHL
Like that I don't have to have a dedicated pc to run and configure the controller

Apex (what's bad)
Reports on unrealibility
New power bar only works in the US and the Neptune don't seem to be addressing this

Profilux 4 (what's good)
Does everything that the Apex does
Seems realiable
They sell the new power bar for most countries.

Profilux 4 (what's bad)
As I am a Linux user, I need to buy another computer to configure or I have configure it on the tiny inbuilt screen.
MyGHL is just not ready.

 

[daelie]

I don't have either but at the moment, looking at buying one of them. My summary is

Apex (what's good)
fusion software wipes the floor with myGHL
Like that I don't have to have a dedicated pc to run and configure the controller

How can you even say point number 1 when you have neither? lol

myGHL is perfectly functional, so I'm not sure how fusion can possibly "wipe the floor" with it. I guess that's a common theme from people that own apex and have never owned GHL. You were right about how one is much more reliable than the other, and in my opinion, that's ALL that matters.

Also this thread is necro'd.