Neptune SKY LED

[oreo54]

Obviously, people should be suspicious of commercial bias. In this case, BRS’s perceived affinity for Neptune. But people should also be suspicious of their own biases. We can’t just lean on professionals and accept their feedback when it confirms our own beliefs. There might be legit reasons that we have to be open to or it’s just all hocus pocus and we’re just cherry pickin’.

Personally the bias criticisms been pretty harsh. If one paid attention to the vid most of what they said is already visibly provable.

The love/hate for the shimmer %.
No disco on the floor.
Over-hyping PAR
Neptune possibly violating Phillips patents
NOT pushing using APEX and admitting it's, atm not much different than non-Apex use.
Even admitting to getting 6 for free..

Nobody s perfect but over the years never saw much of a hint of OVERT bias to anything.
The tests alone are neutral.. either you get the par or not.Either you get spectrum shifts or not

Yeesh people even complaining about the plastic shell and an orange logo for gosh sakes.
Wish my truck had a plastic shell, wouldn't look like a Midwestern rust bucket right now..
Runs great though..
Talk about bias...

Things that Randy et. al. complained about TO manufactures over the years were common sense and things I personally saw were issues though since I really have no dog in this fight I certainly didn't challenge any manuf. about them.

They did.

One listened..

What MORE do people want.

Funny thing is if the light was like $200 nobody would say a darn thing..

Well some always need to find fault.

 

[GillMeister]

Personally the bias criticisms been pretty harsh. If one paid attention to the vid most of what they said is already visibly provable.

The love/hate for the shimmer %.
No disco on the floor.
Over-hyping PAR
Neptune possibly violating Phillips patents
NOT pushing using APEX and admitting it's, atm not much different than non-Apex use.
Even admitting to getting 6 for free..

Nobody s perfect but over the years never saw much of a hint of OVERT bias to anything.
The tests alone are neutral.. either you get the par or not.Either you get spectrum shifts or not

Yeesh people even complaining about the plastic shell and an orange logo for gosh sakes.
Wish my truck had a plastic shell, wouldn't look like a Midwestern rust bucket right now..
Runs great though..
Talk about bias...

Things that Randy et. al. complained about TO manufactures over the years were common sense and things I personally saw were issues though since I really have no dog in this fight I certainly didn't challenge any manuf. about them.

They did.

One listened..

What MORE do people want.

Funny thing is if the light was like $200 nobody would say a darn thing..

Well some always need to find fault.

Very well said. I've seen it all on this thread.

I like halides therefore LEDs are bad.
BRS sells Neptune, don't trust their reviews.
I like shimmer, all lights should have shimmer.
Yada yada yada.

No offense given or taken by the opinions stated on this thread but at the end of the day I just want to see what the objective test results are, and the subjective opinions about the UI. On this light. That's all I want.

 

[zalick]

I have no dog in this fight, but I'm disappointed in the overzealous removal of posts leveling fair criticisms. “For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. ..."

+1. I had posts removed that were very fair and legitimate points. And the irony is that I absolutely love Neptune products, have LOTS and sing their praises often. Been using the Apex universe for 7yrs now and very happy. Especially their customer service and tech support. Jon is fantastic.

I do look forward to seeing the long term use reviews of customers who paid full price and switched from other units like Radion.

 

[Terence]

So since many of you wanted to hear from more people running the SKY, we did a live stream last Friday with 14 of our NSI members. Most all of them paid for their SKY, and most of them switched out functioning lighting from various sources from MH/T5 all the way to the latest and greatest from the most popular brands. It's worth a watch to hear straight from these SKY owners why they did it, what they thought, and how it is going for them. I linked right to segment start.

 

[GillMeister]

So since many of you wanted to hear from more people running the SKY, we did a live stream last Friday with 14 of our NSI members. Most all of them paid for their SKY, and most of them switched out functioning lighting from various sources from MH/T5 all the way to the latest and greatest from the most popular brands. It's worth a watch to hear straight from these SKY owners why they did it, what they thought, and how it is going for them. I linked right to segment start.

Enough kowtowing to the critics, @Terence, give me three free lights and a million dollars and I personally guarantee you a glowing review.

Pinky swear.

 

[KarlsReef]

So since many of you wanted to hear from more people running the SKY, we did a live stream last Friday with 14 of our NSI members. Most all of them paid for their SKY, and most of them switched out functioning lighting from various sources from MH/T5 all the way to the latest and greatest from the most popular brands. It's worth a watch to hear straight from these SKY owners why they did it, what they thought, and how it is going for them. I linked right to segment start.

It seems that some people want to hear from people who've ran them for a year, paid full price and aren't in anyway linked to Neptune Systems.... When the product hasn't been released at retail yet and only been in the hands of people other than you (Terence) and a probably a select few employees more than 6 months as NSI only started to get them earlier this year?
Forgive me for thinking that what they are complaining about is a little unrealistic?
Yes we all want info and the public to have them in hand so we can get many reviews from many sources. Calling NSI members shills is a bit disrespectful to those people as just because things are discounted or even free in some cases does not mean they are going to give a positive review of something that is rubbish or doesn't grow coral. If they say there has been no negative impact on their tanks or coral growth and they continue to show a healthy tank surely this is proof enough that what they are saying is true? It seems to me that there have been no crazy claims that aren't visible, the numbers will be coming in over the next few months so I'm sure things will become clear. The only thing I can see that people can actually moan about is the lack of public details about what LEDs are in the light and the actual claimed spectrum, Terence has said in videos that Cree LEDs and another I've forgotten have been used. Anyhow, I just don't get why people come out with the things they do. Clearly some people have no intention in buying the SKY yet love to say they want info and proof and don't believe anything that is said etc.. Knowing full well that if all this was answered they'd still not be happy.

There's criticism and requests for truth then there's over criticism for the sake of spite. Some people are never happy unless they are spreading salt.

I can't wait to see the SKY in person when it comes to the UK so I can formulate my own view.

 

[Mywifeisgunnakillme]

So since many of you wanted to hear from more people running the SKY, we did a live stream last Friday with 14 of our NSI members. Most all of them paid for their SKY, and most of them switched out functioning lighting from various sources from MH/T5 all the way to the latest and greatest from the most popular brands. It's worth a watch to hear straight from these SKY owners why they did it, what they thought, and how it is going for them. I linked right to segment start.

I don't know, good lights speak for themselves. I get it these are being marketed as LED equivalent to T5's with a nice app and a touch of shimmer. And they probably are....

But isn't that what LED's have been supposed to be doing all along? Is it really revolutionary that an LED finally does what they were hyped to do from the beginning, or it is just anti-climatic?

I guess my reaction to the video is that Neptune shouldn't have to convince anyone of this before they are sold. Just let them get out into the marketplace and if they're good, they're good, and if people like them--they will say so freely.

The heavy handed advertising campaign, with solicitations from YouTube personalities, and the video is a bit much on the infomercial side for me... "As seen on YouTube" could be on the box, maybe, it what this starting to feel like... Leading questions to a group of people who you know what the answers to the questions are is not particularly helpful to me.

The light is marginally better than T5's at best, with some bells and whistles, and does that accomplishment really need to be boasted so much when the context of the last 15 years is examined??? What i am saying is the LED industry has been saying LEDs are great for so long, when they haven't been until recently, that finally delivering on promises made a decade ago--after people bought LED light after light for thousands of dollars that didn't do what they were marketed as doing--makes me think the LED industry (including anyone entering it last minute) as a whole should just be more apologetic not braggadocious about anything they do accomplish. Neptune seems to miss or ignore this reality, while--as to the led technology itself--copying and standing on the backs of Phillips and other LED manufacturers in order to manufacture a light that does what the LED makers promised a decade ago.

I guess maybe i am bit jaded on heavy handed advertising, but maybe try to be more humble (realizing Neptune bought, borrowed, or copied other's technology in large part to make the Sky) and let the opinion of Sky's develop organically, for a true sustainable following, rather than try to control the message before even released... Then pass the savings from less advertising onto customers by lowering the price....

 

[KarlsReef]

I don't know, good lights speak for themselves. I get it these are being marketed as LED equivalent to T5's with a nice app and a touch of shimmer. And they probably are....

But isn't that what LED's have been supposed to be doing all along? Is it really revolutionary that an LED finally does what they were hyped to do from the beginning, or it is just anti-climatic?

I guess my reaction to the video is that Neptune shouldn't have to convince anyone of this before they are sold. Just let them get out into the marketplace and if they're good, they're good, and if people like them--they will say so freely.

The heavy handed advertising campaign, with solicitations from YouTube personalities, and the video is a bit much on the infomercial side for me... "As seen on YouTube" could be on the box, maybe, it what this starting to feel like... Leading questions to a group of people who you know what the answers to the questions are is not particularly helpful to me.

The light is marginally better than T5's at best, with some bells and whistles, and does that accomplishment really need to be boasted so much when the context of the last 15 years is examined??? What i am saying is the LED industry has been saying LEDs are great for so long, when they haven't been until recently, that finally delivering on promises made a decade ago--after people bought LED light after light for thousands of dollars that didn't do what they were marketed as doing--makes me think the LED industry (including anyone entering it last minute) as a whole should just be more apologetic not braggadocious about anything they do accomplish. Neptune seems to miss or ignore this reality, while--as to the led technology itself--copying and standing on the backs of Phillips and other LED manufacturers in order to manufacture a light that does what the LED makers promised a decade ago.

I guess maybe i am bit jaded on heavy handed advertising, but maybe try to be more humble (realizing Neptune bought, borrowed, or copied other's technology in large part to make the Sky) and let the opinion of Sky's develop organically, for a true sustainable following, rather than try to control the message before even released... Then pass the savings from less advertising onto customers by lowering the price....

Only problem there is every product is marketed otherwise it wouldn't sell, as a manufacturer you have to big up your product and stand by it and as long as nothing is falsely claimed then there is no problem, it's just how business is. What would the point of releasing a product and not pushing it? I can't think of any company that just releases something with no fanfare. In this day and age with social media being what it is, it's just more obvious than it was 10 plus years ago.
What made you buy your first lights out of curiosity?

Also generally speaking people do not praise products nearly as much as we do with negative opinion. "One negative experience and we tell ten people but a positive experience we tell one" was a common known thing in the late 90s early 2000s - now with social media we can tell hundreds in a split second. I guess that is due to human nature of trying to stop others having a bad experience by sharing our own... Or just the love of sharing our dismay?

 

[Mywifeisgunnakillme]

Only problem there is every product is marketed otherwise it wouldn't sell, as a manufacturer you have to big up your product and stand by it and as long as nothing is falsely claimed then there is no problem, it's just how business is.

Not all businesses have infomercials is what i was saying, that's all... It's a matter of degree. The video was an infomercial. Informercials don't get me to buy personally. My suggestion was less hype (people are tired of it with LEDs) and let support organically grow (which if its a good product will happen).

What would the point of releasing a product and not pushing it?

You avoid people thinking it's all hype and too good to be true. Also by avoiding heavy marketing and advertising you can save money on the cost of the product and pass that savings onto consumers. Do vortech pumps need any advertising? No they're just a good pump.. people buy them. I don't remember crazy informercials for them when they first came out. And if there was minimal advertising at all for them when they first came out--they'd would be just as popular today because they are amazing... Good products sell themselves, that's all.

I can't think of any company that just releases something with no fanfare.

Letting the fanfare speak for themselves without leading questions in an informercial comes across as more credible to me.

In this day and age with social media being what it is,

Sure, and some people like and some don't. My opinion is that they could sell more without it and Neptune coming across as more humble and less informercially would help its brand image.

it's just more obvious than it was 10 plus years ago.
What made you buy your first lights out of curiosity?

See corals in person grow really big over someone's tank and them telling the me the good and bad about the light in person and not in an informercial so i actually believed them.

Also generally speaking people do not praise products nearly as much as we do with negative opinion.

I am not sure about that, that might just be perception. In general, i think people unsolicited voices are more credible good or bad for a product.

"One negative experience and we tell ten people but a positive experience we tell one" was a common known thing in the late 90s early 2000s - now with social media we can tell hundreds in a split second. I guess that is due to human nature of trying to stop others having a bad experience by sharing our own... Or just the love of sharing our dismay?

Okay, maybe.

 

[OceanDiver]

Personally the bias criticisms been pretty harsh. If one paid attention to the vid most of what they said is already visibly provable.

The love/hate for the shimmer %.
No disco on the floor.
Over-hyping PAR
Neptune possibly violating Phillips patents
NOT pushing using APEX and admitting it's, atm not much different than non-Apex use.
Even admitting to getting 6 for free..

Nobody s perfect but over the years never saw much of a hint of OVERT bias to anything.
The tests alone are neutral.. either you get the par or not.Either you get spectrum shifts or not

Yeesh people even complaining about the plastic shell and an orange logo for gosh sakes.
Wish my truck had a plastic shell, wouldn't look like a Midwestern rust bucket right now..
Runs great though..
Talk about bias...

Things that Randy et. al. complained about TO manufactures over the years were common sense and things I personally saw were issues though since I really have no dog in this fight I certainly didn't challenge any manuf. about them.

They did.

One listened..

What MORE do people want.

Funny thing is if the light was like $200 nobody would say a darn thing..

Well some always need to find fault.

mine weren’t free. And I had MH years ago… I will take LEDs any day.

 

[Kfactor]

mine weren’t free. And I have MH years ago… I will take LEDs any day.

How much ?

 

[OceanDiver]

How much ?

I can’t say. But it wasn’t cheap. And I was nervous switching out my lights but I sold all my ecotechs and my T5 hybrid.

Most of the NSI users felt the same way initially switching out the lights. We all know that lightning is critcial and just randomimg switching can be nerve racking. That said, every NSI member I know…. nobody regrets the decision.

 

[zalick]

I can’t say. But it wasn’t cheap. And I was nervous switching out my lights but I sold all my ecotechs and my T5 hybrid.

Most of the NSI users felt the same way initially switching out the lights. We all know that lightning is critcial and just randomimg switching can be nerve racking. That said, every NSI member I know…. nobody regrets the decision.

How many units do you have? Do you like them better than your radions? If you still had the Radions, would you pay full retail on the SKY to switch?

thanks for the info.

 

[KarlsReef]

Ahhhhh

 

[A. grandis]

mine weren’t free. And I had MH years ago… I will take LEDs any day.

How much did you pay for them?
Why will you take LEDs instead halides any day?

 

[oreo54]

Historically the main problem w/ leds was cost.
To make a marketable product led to some fantastical claims.
The fact is even black boxes after minor modifications (i e. add more " color") still work fine for many.
Don't get me wrong, plenty of blame as to why leds did not live up to the hype.

Few complain that their viparspectras don't " look like t5's" yet high end lights are held to a different standard.

Shouldn't have done the " like this so and so marketing". .it was a losing game
Looks to me like the same thing happened w t5 mh wars.

Leds needed to use tight (and really usually inferior) optics to make them affordable to the masses (arguable I suppose) since diodes ... were .not ..cheap.
So the par wars.
Besides, like it or not, selling new stuff is how progress occurs
Yes you are guinea pigs but that is true if any product.
Any decent manuf. wants to build something that carries over time or the " market" will end them.
Add " overdriving " leds for shorter lifespans to the mix. Went back to costs if course..

Leds self inflicted wounds will heal.

Up until a little while ago it def was not economic to use leds then eliminate 20% of its par w/ a diffuser
Whether that -20% STILL had enough par for most needs.
People create markets
Advertising creates markets.
Everyone is involved

Then there is a cultural thing..Preferred color.
Then there was a "hedge" .
Black boxes can be used for both saltwater and freshwater and marked as such.
Turn off the blue and plenty if PAR for freshwater.
It was planned.
Next " fake" wattages.
People thinking 165w lights output 165w.
Then using that to match what they had.
When people fail w/ leds my first thought us how much light did they have and what did they replace it with?
Can't t count the times people replaced like 2 250mh w. / say 2 black boxes run at like 60%
and wondering why growth dropped.
You replaced 500w w/ at best 200 real watts.
Even accounting for light delivery efficiency you aren't going to win this one

NO it is not ALL user error by far but if leds coudn' t do at least a lot if what they promised it would already be history

There is a lot to unpack historically.

It doesn't matter what we all "like". My question was legit.

Considering your bias the question is purely confrontational.

 

[Terence]

Metal halides are like led based paint, it works great but too many downsides

This is likely the best way to put it yet - Lead paint is far superior in my mind, not everyones, but it also has huge downsides. For some who have been on MH or T5, the SKY was the tipping point for them. You will have to ask them why. For me, personally, my opinion, MH is inferior to LED for the reasons I stated above.

So lets put this to bed in this thread already as it is not the place to resolve that issue - plenty of threads for that. If you are not an LED person, perfect. Got it. More power to you. If you are an LED person, great, here is a new option for you.

If you would like to get feedback from someone most would consider impartial, who knows quite a bit about MH and other lighting solutions, and has two SKY, feel free to ask the main moderator of this forum, @Dana Riddle

 

[Dana Riddle]

Over the years, I've evaluated just about every type of lighting ever offered (or potentially offered) to the aquarium market, ranging from CFLs to power compacts to T12/T5 to metal halides (even those sold for general lighting such as those offered at Home Depot) to mercury vapors to LEDs. Even a Fusion Sulfur Lamp that pegged a Li-Cor quantum meter out at a PPFD 0f 20,000. With that said, my personal preference is a LED luminaire. I have two SKY luminaires over my rebooted 120, and let my corals be the judge. In just a couple of weeks, I've seen growth spurts in corals considered light-loving, such as Acropora specimens. If my corals are growing and expressing coloration, I'm happy.
If metal halides or any other type of lighting suited my corals' needs better than LEDs, I'd ditch the diodes in a heart beat. But LEDs are a good fit for my situation and I see no reason to use anything other than them.

 

[Dana Riddle]

I've shouldn't come here! I was expecting to learn something good about this fixture. I actually think it could be a good LED. I don't like this behavior at all though.
Sorry for venting. I'll let you guys carry on.

Testing of the SKY has been completed, and I was impressed enough to place them over the 'new' 120 reef tank. I'll gladly share what I have with you (or anyone else for that matter.) It's an Excel file at present, and needs to be hammered into a Word report.

 

[Jon's Reef]

For a 36x24x22 mixed reef (Tenius at ~6”, Lps in mid and softies on bottom) with the scape/ corals distributed across ~30” of the tank width (acro not concentrated just in the center)…. Would 1 SKY really be enough? Like if I want 350-400 par 6” deep across 30” of the tank width.
Is the 1 recommendation for LPS and a few acro right in the middle?