Neptune SKY LED

[areefer01]

And again, I'm not sure you own them either. I will have a great day, thank you. I hope you do as well.

Edit: any time you are in Dallas you are welcome to reach out and I’ll buy you a beer or come over and check out my reef. I don’t take these things personal and I hope you don’t. Ultimately we all share a passion for the hobby and of course we all have our opinions

I've been there a few times (Dallas). You don't need to buy a beverage but very kind of you. I'm sure we would get along fine.

And no - nothing is personal. I learn new things every day talking in the forums be it hobby related or how to post in threads believe it or not. No one wants to be a bully on a forum. The world is already stressful enough we don't need to cause trouble between us.

 

[Dana Riddle]

I “authoritatively claimed” it was in my Opinion they were a poor quality product.

Also, thanks for joining in on the discussion. I suggest you go back and read what my point was. It related to a member saying people should not have an opinion of a product. I’m glad you’re happy with your lights and had nothing to do with you.

Personally I don’t care about price per watt, that means nothing to me. I’ll take higher count of lower watt LED’s, solid aluminum passive cooled, and a light that can handle a water splash. Since you are doing cost per watt you should add black box LED’s there also to compare the Sky to. No mixing panel needed here-

@Bulk Reef Supply @Dana Riddle I’m happy to send you a Straton and a Blue Ray Pros to test and compare to the Sky’s at my cost.

I would interested in testing the Straton. It will take a month or two to complete however. Let's discuss via PM. Thanks!

 

[Hydrored]

I would interested in testing the Straton. It will take a month or two to complete however. Let's discuss via PM. Thanks!

You got it! I'll pm you now

 

[areefer01]

You got it! I'll pm you now

I have seen a lot of threads looking for a good unbiased review on the light. Dana is a perfect fit for that.

I think the most interesting thing ATI did with that light is adding more LED's but running them with less power if I understand their design correctly. More LED's, spread, lower power for thermal management. So spread will be there. Spectrum is probably there. How does running at lower power relate to depth coverage.

Neat design anyway and pretty cool of you if you offered it up for that amount of time.

@Dana Riddle - you probably need to retire from retirement You are busy! Hope all is well with you and yours!

 

[Dana Riddle]

I have seen a lot of threads looking for a good unbiased review on the light. Dana is a perfect fit for that.

I think the most interesting thing ATI did with that light is adding more LED's but running them with less power if I understand their design correctly. More LED's, spread, lower power for thermal management. So spread will be there. Spectrum is probably there. How does running at lower power relate to depth coverage.

Neat design anyway and pretty cool of you if you offered it up for that amount of time.

@Dana Riddle - you probably need to retire from retirement You are busy! Hope all is well with you and yours!

LOL. Retire from retirement. I had heard so many times that retirees are busier in retirement than when they were working. It's true. just can't say 'no' to light testing after 31 years of ding it.

 

[Jon's Reef]

How does running at lower power relate to depth coverage.

A given photon of light has the same "penetration power" no matter the wattage of the source. Penetration is related to panel, optic and tank geometry.

I think the most interesting thing ATI did with that light is adding more LED's but running them with less power if I understand their design correctly.

There is some interesting physics here. The efficacy of LEDs (Lum/Watt) increases as the wattage is dropped. So if we make some very broad assumptions, we can see the potential.

Let's say we have 3 fixtures, all using the same royal blue LEDs.
Fixture 1: 104 LEDs, 219 Watts
Fixture 2: 153 LEDs, 230 Watts
Fixture 3: 588 LEDs, 130 Watts

Here are the characteristics of the Cree XE-T Royal Blue LEDs

I extracted the plots, then calculate wattage:

Here is the interesting behavior of LEDS. The Efficacy (Flux/watt) goes up as the wattage goes down. That is an LED will produce more light per watt at lower wattage, but remember that the overall light coming out also goes down.

So now lets run the numbers through the 3 fictitious light fixtures:

The efficacy (Lumen/Watt) is significantly better for the lower wattage.... 6 to 31% better.

In terms of the total fixture performance:

We would expect fixture 2 to consume 5% more power than Fixture 1 and produce 12% more light. This comes at a cost of 47% more for LEDs.

We would expect fixture 3 to consume 40% less power than fixture 1 and produce 20% less light. This comes at a cost of 565% more for LEDs.

Completely hypothetical with many hand waving assumptions.

 

[areefer01]

A given photon of light has the same "penetration power" no matter the wattage of the source. Penetration is related to panel, optic and tank geometry.


There is some interesting physics here. The efficacy of LEDs (Lum/Watt) increases as the wattage is dropped. So if we make some very broad assumptions, we can see the potential.

Let's say we have 3 fixtures, all using the same royal blue LEDs.
Fixture 1: 104 LEDs, 219 Watts
Fixture 2: 153 LEDs, 230 Watts
Fixture 3: 588 LEDs, 130 Watts

Here are the characteristics of the Cree XE-T Royal Blue LEDs

I extracted the plots, then calculate wattage:

Here is the interesting behavior of LEDS. The Efficacy (Flux/watt) goes up as the wattage goes down. That is an LED will produce more light per watt at lower wattage, but remember that the overall light coming out also goes down.

So now lets run the numbers through the 3 fictitious light fixtures:

The efficacy (Lumen/Watt) is significantly better for the lower wattage.... 6 to 31% better.

In terms of the total fixture performance:

We would expect fixture 2 to consume 5% more power than Fixture 1 and produce 12% more light. This comes at a cost of 47% more for LEDs.

We would expect fixture 3 to consume 40% less power than fixture 1 and produce 20% less light. This comes at a cost of 565% more for LEDs.

Completely hypothetical with many hand waving assumptions.

A lot of detail there

 

[nornicle]

You got it! I'll pm you now

Please make this happen! I would love Dana’s view on the Straton, I think us fellow users know it works and we’ve done some of our own tests but it’s never been ‘Riddled’

I think hydrored one of the issues and why this thread is so divisive is we have seen many manufacturers over engineer their products (eg coral care or Straton) however some products are closer to ‘just good enough’ and Neptune continue to pursue this strategy (eg their most expensive in class DOS doesn’t even provide a count of fluid dosed when it’s not exactly hard maths…).

I think it’s hard to say ‘it is objectively bad’ without testing, it is probably more appropriate to say what Jake at Reefbuilders said which was ‘compared to their competitors at this price point, it’s really not as good, has less raw materials etc etc’ which I think is fair.

I expect lots of people are gonna grow lots of coral with these lights and be perfectly happy..!

 

[Hydrored]

Please make this happen! I would love Dana’s view on the Straton, I think us fellow users know it works and we’ve done some of our own tests but it’s never been ‘Riddled’

I think hydrored one of the issues and why this thread is so divisive is we have seen many manufacturers over engineer their products (eg coral care or Straton) however some products are closer to ‘just good enough’ and Neptune continue to pursue this strategy (eg their most expensive in class DOS doesn’t even provide a count of fluid dosed when it’s not exactly hard maths…).

I think it’s hard to say ‘it is objectively bad’ without testing, it is probably more appropriate to say what Jake at Reefbuilders said which was ‘compared to their competitors at this price point, it’s really not as good, has less raw materials etc etc’ which I think is fair.

I expect lots of people are gonna grow lots of coral with these lights and be perfectly happy..!

I couldn’t agree more, I will be shipping Dana a Straton to test and he can use it as long as he needs since I have the Blue Rays already here.

@ATI North America for the heads-up

 

[Jon's Reef]

DOS doesn’t even provide a count of fluid dosed

Mine does that...

compared to their competitors at this price point, it’s really not as good, has less raw materials etc etc

How is it "really not as good" from the other lights at this price point?

The construction of the G5 is exactly the same from a material type standpoint, but the G5 has "less materials". Plastic case... aluminum heat sink... control boards... fan. Sky has 2 fans vs 1 in G5... Sky has ~3x larger heatsink.... Sky includes the diffuser (add $36 for G5), Both essentially use the same power supply but SKY has a locking cable.

Also for the wattage... note that G5 and Sky are not "Premium Price". They are the average price. Straton, Orphek, GNC, Coral Care G2 (yes CC is currently being clearanced in some stores) and to some extent Kessil are all "Premium Price".

Jake's proposed "$600-$650" price makes absolutely no economic sense. That would make it the exact same price as a Hydra 64. See the recent BRS video about Water vs Air measurements for a comparison of PAR output of the Hydra and SKY.
HYDRA 64... 68 LEDs... 135 Watts... 243 avg par.... $668
SKY.... 104 LEDs... 219 Watts... 324 avg par... $870

 

[nornicle]

Mine does that...

How is it "really not as good" from the other lights at this price point?

The construction of the G5 is exactly the same from a material type standpoint, but the G5 has "less materials". Plastic case... aluminum heat sink... control boards... fan. Sky has 2 fans vs 1 in G5... Sky has ~3x larger heatsink.... Sky include the diffuser (add $36 for G5)

Also for the wattage... note that G5 and Sky are not "Premium Price". They are the average price. Straton, Orphek, GNC, Coral Care G2 (yes CC is currently being clearanced in some stores) and to some extent Kessil are all "Premium Price".

Jake's proposed "$600-$650" price makes absolutely no economic sense. That would make it the exact same price as a Hydra 64. See the recent BRS video about Water vs Air measurements for a comparison of PAR output of the Hydra and SKY.
HYDRA 64... 68 LEDs... 135 Watts... 243 avg par.... $668
SKY.... 104 LEDs... 219 Watts... 324 avg par... $870

How did you do that with the dos? I’d love mine to do that and warn me… tell me it’s not the absurd ddr?

 

[Hydrored]

How did you do that with the dos? I’d love mine to do that and warn me… tell me it’s not the absurd ddr?

Hit the lock button on the top right, drag the DOS tile tile down. All mine show the measurements as well, if not @SuncrestReef call help you out-

 

[Jon's Reef]

How did you do that with the dos? I’d love mine to do that and warn me… tell me it’s not the absurd ddr?

This is one of the reasons I switched from another large control companies doser (which does not have a dose log... at least not if you only have the stand alone version of the doser). As my Alk consumption increases, I wanted to be able to look back historically at the dosing. With the Trident, I like that I can see the controlled dosing amounts and graph dosed amout vs Alk, Ca, Mg and Ph.

On top of what @Hydrored posted, you can get the container volumes without a DDR. Neptune reservoirs are nice, but I don't want the sensors and have larger containers that match my sump/ATO. Would be great if Neptune could make it a software toggle or sell an official dongle.

Disclaimer.... This probably voids your warranty. I am in no one connected with Neptune, nor am I an electrical engineer. If something happens it is 100% on you. Read up online, there are many posts about it.
Materials:

• Connectors:
• 150 ohm resistor
• Electrical tape

You don't "need" a crimper tool for the pins... just be careful with a needle nose pliers. Use electrical tape to cover it.

Once the "dongle" is in place, click the lock in fusion and you will have new icons (may take a minute to show up). Click the name of the reservoir and you can adjust the volumes. There are some people who use this for auto water change with really big reservoir sizes.

Again... This is a DIY mod at your own risk!

 

[Naturalreef]

This is for Neptune Sky owners, how did you acclimate your sps with the sky when switching over As in templates/schedule/intensity? I have a bunch of new sps Frags that I don’t want to bleach. I purchased a Sky and a Coralcare Gen 2 because the deals were too good. Ccg2 will be used for a future upgrade. Thanks for any help!

 

[Dana Riddle]

This is for Neptune Sky owners, how did you acclimate your sps with the sky when switching over As in templates/schedule/intensity? I have a bunch of new sps Frags that I don’t want to bleach. I purchased a Sky and a Coralcare Gen 2 because the deals were too good. Ccg2 will be used for a future upgrade. Thanks for any help!

I matched PPFD as determined by an Apogee MQ-510, using the Coral Growth for 4 hours in the morning and then All Blue in the afternoon.

 

[Jon's Reef]

This is for Neptune Sky owners, how did you acclimate your sps with the sky when switching over As in templates/schedule/intensity? I have a bunch of new sps Frags that I don’t want to bleach. I purchased a Sky and a Coralcare Gen 2 because the deals were too good. Ccg2 will be used for a future upgrade. Thanks for any help!

That CCG2 price was very tempting.

I also did a par measurement before and after and matched that. I then noticed a little bleaching/ not quite happy look, so I backed it off 15%. Now everyone is happy. My thought is that the corals may be reacting differently to more uniform illumination.

 

[Naturalreef]

Thanks for the replies! I heard great things about the coralcare gen2 and the price was just too good to pass up. It will be fun to use it on a upgrade.

 

[Naturalreef]

Been watching all the videos and following the forums as much as I can about the sky to gain as much info as I could before jumping on the deal.
I have owned all Radions except the first Gen. They are a solid light and I have had great success with Sps using them, especially the G4. After using LED’s for such a long time, my conclusion is that I want more templates and less fiddling. Leave the channels in there for people that want the control ,but definitely give us more proven templates for success so I don’t hurt my coral with spectrums.
As I have matured in this hobby, I have automated my tank to keep fiddling to a minimum. I think I have killed more coral by messing too much instead of setting and leaving it alone. I will give props to Neptune for trying to make our hobby easier to enjoy.

 

[Naturalreef]

Quick review after installing the Sky……I love it! The install took 10 mins to install on mount and less than 5 min software/schedule install. It would have been less than a minute for basic schedule, but I wanted to customize it.

Software is awesome! (But don’t stop adding features Neptune). SUPER easy to schedule to your liking. The templates are great and on point. Photo mode is legit, I no longer have to grab a orange lense. Customize (Royal Blue)mode template works great for showing off my coral and during water changes for inspiration to keep it up

The look and feel does not feel cheap to me at all and is comparable to the G5. Rubber coating imo will not be an issue and I like it after seeing fingerprints on the radions. The fan cages are a nice design touch and sturdy. The diffuser plate didnt seem cheap either and doesnt concern me for longevity.

The Sky fills the entire aquarium with light due to being a larger panel and I understand it should with a Max nano. I’m getting the same amount of light spill as the G5 Blue. Tank looks crisp and clear under All templates. As far as par, my schedule is at 30% intensity with AB+ and royal blues for a half hour morning and night and I’m getting a solid 150-200 bottom of rock with 250 ish towards top.

My initial impression is two thumbs up! We shall see how my Frags color up and grow under this light. Received a bunch of brown Sps Frags that FedEx delivered a day late. I’m curious how they will recover under the Sky.

 

[Jon's Reef]

Quick review after installing the Sky……I love it! The install took 10 mins to install on mount and less than 5 min software/schedule install. It would have been less than a minute for basic schedule, but I wanted to customize it.

Software is awesome! (But don’t stop adding features Neptune). SUPER easy to schedule to your liking. The templates are great and on point. Photo mode is legit, I no longer have to grab a orange lense. Customize (Royal Blue)mode template works great for showing off my coral and during water changes for inspiration to keep it up

The look and feel does not feel cheap to me at all and is comparable to the G5. Rubber coating imo will not be an issue and I like it after seeing fingerprints on the radions. The fan cages are a nice design touch and sturdy. The diffuser plate didnt seem cheap either and doesnt concern me for longevity.

The Sky fills the entire aquarium with light due to being a larger panel and I understand it should with a Max nano. I’m getting the same amount of light spill as the G5 Blue. Tank looks crisp and clear under All templates. As far as par, my schedule is at 30% intensity with AB+ and royal blues for a half hour morning and night and I’m getting a solid 150-200 bottom of rock with 250 ish towards top.

My initial impression is two thumbs up! We shall see how my Frags color up and grow under this light. Received a bunch of brown Sps Frags that FedEx delivered a day late. I’m curious how they will recover under the Sky.

Your tank looks great. The floating rock design is cool. How is it attached to the back?

I would have thought that the size would be excessive on a tank that size, but it looks perfect. The minimal amount of overspill is surprising.