New Build Suggestions

Fotocha · Mar 16, 2019

Ok folks well I've done some though and I decided its fast approaching I should start upgrading to a larger tank. Currently running an upgraded Fluval Evo 13.5. Ideally looking for a 40-70 gallon setup (ie something, I'm not quickly going to outgrow). I have 38in of width to play width and this is going to be in the basement.

Frankly I'm not sure what I should/can upgrade to. But all things considering this is going to be a budget build with a lot of progression over time. This will be my 3rd Reef tank and I trying to consider what is going to be the best bang for my buck. I should also point out this will be the first time I'm going to transfer livestock.

Here are items which I could reuse, however I'd likely have to sell off and buy something more new tank size appropriate. I should also point out I'm going to need to buy/make a cabinet and factor in lighting and protein skimmer into the the budget.

- AI Prime HD
- Jebao ow-10 Wave Maker
- Hydor Koralia 240
- Cobalt Mj-1200 Pump
- Cobalt 50w Heater
- Inkbird ITC-300 Temp Cont
- 9lbs of live rock

I'm considering either
A. AIO Tank (Preferably with separate Sump)
B. Reef Ready (Predrilled Kit)
C. Cube w/Reactor (Least desirable)

I want more space for sure, but more space requires more lighting. Although I don't have any SPS. I'd like to either progress to one day being able to house some. What are you thoughts?

Big G · Mar 17, 2019

"Bump"

Phil D. · Mar 18, 2019

Might I suggest a JBJ 45 gallon rimless, it's an AIO type and not too much $$

Fotocha · Mar 18, 2019

I like the JBJ but it really limits progression.

I really would like something that I can use a full sump. Can anyone suggest perhaps an alternative to the Rea Sea Reefer 250 or perhaps a very budget friendly build for it?

JoshH · Mar 18, 2019

Fotocha said:
I like the JBJ but it really limits progression.

I really would like something that I can use a full sump. Can anyone suggest perhaps an alternative to the Rea Sea Reefer 250 or perhaps a very budget friendly build for it?

What type of budget are you hoping to stick to? Strictly speaking for the tank/sump/stand for now.

Fotocha · Mar 18, 2019

Around $1500. Well if I were considering the 250 for example, it would need to be a fairly barebone system for a while. I know that minimum on a system that size at the very least I would need to buy another prime which eats up my budget quite a bit.

Fotocha · Mar 18, 2019

anyone have any experience with an IM Nuvo 30L ?

https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/nuvo-ext-30-long-aquarium-with-black-aps-stand-innovative-marine.html

Devaji · Mar 18, 2019

my .2 cent for what ever there worth.

1st off I love the little 13.5 I have been thining about setting one up for a while now.

next think somewhat long term and what you want to house in this tank? I now something in the 30-40 gal seems huge after the nano but it fills up just as fast.

that said I have the RS 750XXl and love it. are RS worht the price? hmmm I am not sure but I like to think so just to justify all the $$ I spend on it. in fact I was just dreaming about a matching 250 or 350...haha I would try to streach it a bit and go with the 350 if you can.

now for budget builds:
I would go with a 40br drill it and use a 40br for the sump I believe there on sale at petco right now buck per gallon. ( not sure if the 40br are on that sale these days tho but still a good price ) if you dont want to drill get a life reef overflow tried and true.

now the stand is the tricky part there easy to build with 2x4 and plywood or an all plywood stand. but they prob. will not look as good the RS stand. I have seens some amazing looking stand out there tho.

so you might want something more AIO and dont feeling DIYing
I would suggest SC aqauriums:
http://www.scaquariums.com/category-s/100.htm
I had there 90 gal on a DIY stand for a year or so. I decided I dont care for cubes all that much tho. but lots of ppl love em cheaper on the lighting to they have lots to choose from and price includes shipping!

Devaji · Mar 18, 2019

Fotocha said:
anyone have any experience with an IM Nuvo 30L ?

https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/nuvo-ext-30-long-aquarium-with-black-aps-stand-innovative-marine.html

I have not, but have looked at them a lot. I like the length of the tank.

Fotocha · Mar 18, 2019

Devaji said:
my .2 cent for what ever there worth.

1st off I love the little 13.5 I have been thining about setting one up for a while now.

next think somewhat long term and what you want to house in this tank? I now something in the 30-40 gal seems huge after the nano but it fills up just as fast.

that said I have the RS 750XXl and love it. are RS worht the price? hmmm I am not sure but I like to think so just to justify all the $$ I spend on it. in fact I was just dreaming about a matching 250 or 350...haha I would try to streach it a bit and go with the 350 if you can.

now for budget builds:
I would go with a 40br drill it and use a 40br for the sump I believe there on sale at petco right now buck per gallon. ( not sure if the 40br are on that sale these days tho but still a good price ) if you dont want to drill get a life reef overflow tried and true.

now the stand is the tricky part there easy to build with 2x4 and plywood or an all plywood stand. but they prob. will not look as good the RS stand. I have seens some amazing looking stand out there tho.

so you might want something more AIO and dont feeling DIYing
I would suggest SC aqauriums:
http://www.scaquariums.com/category-s/100.htm
I had there 90 gal on a DIY stand for a year or so. I decided I dont care for cubes all that much tho. but lots of ppl love em cheaper on the lighting to they have lots to choose from and price includes shipping!

Frankly that's what I wanted to begin with. But I didn't want to drill it myself and while I'm tempted hate the idea of using a hang on box. I suppose I could live without having a rimless tank. I've been told a good quality 40B runs around $180 are these going to be the same as the Petco $1 per gallon variety? Do you think an aquarium maintenance company could do the modifications?

Dkeller_nc · Mar 18, 2019

Perhaps I can help a bit, mainly to suggest that you think from the "50,000 foot view".

The most important question is whether you're someone that has some building skills (i.e., you're "mechanically inclined") and the equipment/shop to do it. Or the ambition to have a shop. If the answer is "yes", you can construct an acceptable looking tank that will probably meet the W.A.F. for very little money as long as you're willing to make some compromises. The first compromise is with respect to the tank type, the size, or both. As someone above suggested, you can get a 40 gallon rimmed breeder from PetCo for $40. You'll have to drill it yourself and add a good quality overflow. Probably the best option is the shadow for about $180 ($160 for the overflow, $20 for the drill bit). Or go with the not-quite-as-nice Eshopps versions for a bit less.

If you want rimless, then to keep the cost down and still do the DIY thing you'll have to limit the tank size to something that Mr. Aqua or AquaMaxx sells. The AM 57 cube, for example, will run you about $500 including the shipping, and they you'll need to factor in the overflow.

If the answer to the question above is "no, I'm not handy, and I don't have an interest in becoming handy", then it would be, in my view, a mistake to try to force it to save $$. A tank is something that has the potential to cause major damage to your home if not done correctly, and considering that's the case, it would be far better to spend the extra $$ and get an integrated package that (especially) comes with a stand.

In my case, I just purchased an IM EXT40, though I've not gotten it wet yet. I was seriously impressed with the aluminum stand. Considering that it's a flat-packed, assemble-it-yourself product, it was exceptionally well made and far sturdier than the flat-packed laminated wood product stands. The tank and stand with shipping ran about $1k, so slightly cheaper than the equivalent Red Sea or Waterbox of the same capacity. However, IM doesn't include a sump, and the only one that will fit is the Skimz 14, which adds another $225 to it.

I'm sure you already realize this, but the tank/stand is probably no more than 1/3rd - 1/2th of the equipment price of setting up a reef tank. To keep that more in the 1/2 range instead of the 1/3rd range, consider ditching the LED idea and use a quality T5HO fixture. Presuming that you get the one that has sufficient bulbs, it's dirt simple, far cheaper than the LED option if equivalent coverage is compared, doesn't require a PAR meter, will grow anything you put under it including SPS, and if you're talking one of the ATI or Geisemann fixtures, looks nice.

Another money saving thought is an AC-powered skimmer with a quality pump. Seaside Aquatics (on Amazon) is one way to do this. They take a Bubble Magus body and valves, and put a Sicce pump in it. Super quiet, ultra-reliable pump, and for the ES-5 version suitable for a smaller tank, about $225.

For circulation pumps, consider the Hydors or the Tunzes. Both are far more reliable than sketchy chinese knock-offs, and with the Tunzes, you can buy the pumps now and use them, and add the 7090 controller later as funds allow.

For a heater, don't buy anything other than an Eheim Jager. They're reasonably priced, and it's not worth skimping on this, because its the one piece of equipment that has the potential to absolutely nuke your tank if it fails.

For a return pump, I'd suggest the Sicce AC powered ones. They have legendary reliability, and though they cost a bit more than the cheapest options, it's a bit of a false economy if you have to replace in a year or two. Eheim hobby pumps are equivalently reliable - I've had one running my 20g nano for 15 years.

Fotocha · Mar 19, 2019

Dkeller_nc said:
Perhaps I can help a bit, mainly to suggest that you think from the "50,000 foot view".

The most important question is whether you're someone that has some building skills (i.e., you're "mechanically inclined") and the equipment/shop to do it. Or the ambition to have a shop. If the answer is "yes", you can construct an acceptable looking tank that will probably meet the W.A.F. for very little money as long as you're willing to make some compromises. The first compromise is with respect to the tank type, the size, or both. As someone above suggested, you can get a 40 gallon rimmed breeder from PetCo for $40. You'll have to drill it yourself and add a good quality overflow. Probably the best option is the shadow for about $180 ($160 for the overflow, $20 for the drill bit). Or go with the not-quite-as-nice Eshopps versions for a bit less.

If you want rimless, then to keep the cost down and still do the DIY thing you'll have to limit the tank size to something that Mr. Aqua or AquaMaxx sells. The AM 57 cube, for example, will run you about $500 including the shipping, and they you'll need to factor in the overflow.

If the answer to the question above is "no, I'm not handy, and I don't have an interest in becoming handy", then it would be, in my view, a mistake to try to force it to save $$. A tank is something that has the potential to cause major damage to your home if not done correctly, and considering that's the case, it would be far better to spend the extra $$ and get an integrated package that (especially) comes with a stand.

In my case, I just purchased an IM EXT40, though I've not gotten it wet yet. I was seriously impressed with the aluminum stand. Considering that it's a flat-packed, assemble-it-yourself product, it was exceptionally well made and far sturdier than the flat-packed laminated wood product stands. The tank and stand with shipping ran about $1k, so slightly cheaper than the equivalent Red Sea or Waterbox of the same capacity. However, IM doesn't include a sump, and the only one that will fit is the Skimz 14, which adds another $225 to it.

I'm sure you already realize this, but the tank/stand is probably no more than 1/3rd - 1/2th of the equipment price of setting up a reef tank. To keep that more in the 1/2 range instead of the 1/3rd range, consider ditching the LED idea and use a quality T5HO fixture. Presuming that you get the one that has sufficient bulbs, it's dirt simple, far cheaper than the LED option if equivalent coverage is compared, doesn't require a PAR meter, will grow anything you put under it including SPS, and if you're talking one of the ATI or Geisemann fixtures, looks nice.

Another money saving thought is an AC-powered skimmer with a quality pump. Seaside Aquatics (on Amazon) is one way to do this. They take a Bubble Magus body and valves, and put a Sicce pump in it. Super quiet, ultra-reliable pump, and for the ES-5 version suitable for a smaller tank, about $225.

For circulation pumps, consider the Hydors or the Tunzes. Both are far more reliable than sketchy chinese knock-offs, and with the Tunzes, you can buy the pumps now and use them, and add the 7090 controller later as funds allow.

For a heater, don't buy anything other than an Eheim Jager. They're reasonably priced, and it's not worth skimping on this, because its the one piece of equipment that has the potential to absolutely nuke your tank if it fails.

For a return pump, I'd suggest the Sicce AC powered ones. They have legendary reliability, and though they cost a bit more than the cheapest options, it's a bit of a false economy if you have to replace in a year or two. Eheim hobby pumps are equivalently reliable - I've had one running my 20g nano for 15 years.

Thanks, that's perfect. I am, going to progress the tank quite a bit. In short this build is more to get my foot in door. Not so much about budget but what my wife will swallow lol. For example I'm going to hold on a skimmer for a few months and do a mess of water changes. After considering the time/cost of modifying a 40B (I'm a carpenter, but time and space are valuable, 6 adults 2 kids in the house). I think its in my best interest to either buy used or go with (reluctantly, a smaller display but "wide" ) a IM 30L combo. Depth wise I can reuse the AI Prime and add one.

I'm guessing this setup might work. Very roughly $1000 + Cost of a Sump isn't too shabby.

IM 30L w/stand $640
Adding a 2nd AI Prime $200
Sincee Pump 3.0 $90 (hopefully not overkill)
Cobalt 200w heater $70 (love them)
Sump ??? (looking for suggestions ) $200-300

Devaji · Mar 19, 2019

Fotocha said:
Thanks, that's perfect. I am, going to progress the tank quite a bit. In short this build is more to get my foot in door. Not so much about budget but what my wife will swallow lol. For example I'm going to hold on a skimmer for a few months and do a mess of water changes. After considering the time/cost of modifying a 40B (I'm a carpenter, but time and space are valuable, 6 adults 2 kids in the house). I think its in my best interest to either buy used or go with (reluctantly, a smaller display but "wide" ) a IM 30L combo. Depth wise I can reuse the AI Prime and add one.

I'm guessing this setup might work. Very roughly $1000 + Cost of a Sump isn't too shabby.

IM 30L w/stand $640
Adding a 2nd AI Prime $200
Sincee Pump 3.0 $90 (hopefully not overkill)
Cobalt 200w heater $70 (love them)
Sump ??? (looking for suggestions ) $200-300

sounds like a good plan and there on sale at BRS if you can think about it til the 1st weekend you can get 10X points too.

that said I would look around for used tanks as well. often one can find some amazing deals. I once gave away a 240 with stands and 5 month old lights..

Dkeller_nc · Mar 19, 2019

Hmm - If I understand you correctly, you're talking about the IM 30L Fusion. If that's correct, realize that these are AIO tanks - you can't use a sump. Your call, but I'd stay far away from an AIO. Yes, they're "lifestyle" tanks where almost all of the equipment is contained within the tank. But that equipment choice will be extremely limited, many times limited to smallish items that the tank manufacturer sells. Definitely not the best way to save money.

On your list of equipment, the Sicce Syncra Silent will be enough for a 30g or 40g tank. If you go to a 50g, go to a Sicce Syncra 4.0 - keep in mind the that you'll get about 1/2 of the flow rate listed on the pump because of head losses.

The heater is massive overkill unless you keep your house in the 50 degree range in the winter. A 125w Eheim Jager would be a much better (and considerably cheaper) solution.

JoshH · Mar 19, 2019

Dkeller_nc said:
Hmm - If I understand you correctly, you're talking about the IM 30L Fusion. If that's correct, realize that these are AIO tanks - you can't use a sump. Your call, but I'd stay far away from an AIO. Yes, they're "lifestyle" tanks where almost all of the equipment is contained within the tank. But that equipment choice will be extremely limited, many times limited to smallish items that the tank manufacturer sells. Definitely not the best way to save money.

On your list of equipment, the Sicce Syncra Silent will be enough for a 30g or 40g tank. If you go to a 50g, go to a Sicce Syncra 4.0 - keep in mind the that you'll get about 1/2 of the flow rate listed on the pump because of head losses.

The heater is massive overkill unless you keep your house in the 50 degree range in the winter. A 125w Eheim Jager would be a much better (and considerably cheaper) solution.

The IM 30 comes in 2 different versions, an AIO (Fusion) and one with an external overflow and plumbing for a sump beneath it (30 EXT)

I Will add to @Fotocha that a 200 Watt is definately oversized, on my 30G with sump I had a 150 neo and a 75 neo as a backup which is once again probably overkill but it worked. I will say I'd still suggest something larger than the 30L given it's not a huge step up and you'll probably fill it quicker than you think.

I noticed that your a carpenter you can purchase the Innovative Marine EXTs without the stand and just build your own of you have the time.

https://www.marinedepot.com/Lagoon_...iums-Innovative_Marine-0I10661-FIAQML-vi.html

/\ On Sale!

https://www.marinedepot.com/NUVO_EX...iums-Innovative_Marine-0I10685-FIAQML-vi.html

Fotocha · Mar 19, 2019

JoshH said:
The IM 30 comes in 2 different versions, an AIO (Fusion) and one with an external overflow and plumbing for a sump beneath it (30 EXT)

I Will add to @Fotocha that a 200 Watt is definately oversized, on my 30G with sump I had a 150 neo and a 75 neo as a backup which is once again probably overkill but it worked. I will say I'd still suggest something larger than the 30L given it's not a huge step up and you'll probably fill it quicker than you think.

I noticed that your a carpenter you can purchase the Innovative Marine EXTs without the stand and just build your own of you have the time.

https://www.marinedepot.com/Lagoon_...iums-Innovative_Marine-0I10661-FIAQML-vi.html

/\ On Sale!

https://www.marinedepot.com/NUVO_EX...iums-Innovative_Marine-0I10685-FIAQML-vi.html

I agree normally being a carpenter would be a good thing. But, considering the outlet of my basement, it's doubtful, given the space and the living space of the family (we're practically in someones bedroom, and we have 6 year olds running around), I would almost have to build it, in the basement itself. It really would be a must to be constructed in 1 day. 5 years ago, perhaps I would have said, "no prob" (Health), sadly things change. Living in a 300ft sq apartment really doesn't help. Granted, I could do all the cutting and then transport it and lug it down stairs with a friends help. However I'm really unlikely to save as much money as you might think, unless I just "frame it". To do it. the way I like. custom, I'm looking at at least $300 in supplies at the lumber yards and finishing stores. I know this could be less for sure, but I'm being anal lol. I also have to consider the time needed for this project. In a professional wood shop done right this would take me a minimum of 4) 8 hours days (this won't be where I am). Given the fact that, I built it, I'm sure I'd nit pick every mistake lol. Knowing my wife, I'll never hear the end of it lol. Happy Wife, Happy Life.

Speaking of wives, also you know figuring in the TRUE cost, has to do with, whatever I spend on this new tank I have to match ($$$) for something for her lol

JoshH · Mar 19, 2019

Fotocha said:
I agree normally being a carpenter would be a good thing. But considering the outlet of my basement its doubtful given the space and living space of the family (practically in someones bedroom, 6 year olds running around), I would almost have to build it in the basement itself. It would need to be constructed in 1 day. 5 years ago I would have said no prob (Health), things change. Living in a 300ft sq apartment doesn't help. Granted I could do all the cutting and then transport it. However I'm really unlikely to save as much money as you might think unless I just "frame it". To do it the way I like custom I'm looking at at least $300 in supplies at the lumber yards and finishing stores. I know this could be less for sure but I'm being anal lol. I also have to consider the time needed for this project. In a wood shop done right this would take me a minimum of 4) 8 hours days. Given the fact that I built it, I'm sure I nit pick every mistake lol. Knowing my wife I'll never hear the end of it lol. Happy Wife, Happy Life. Also you know figuring in the TRUE cost has to do with whatever I spend on this new tank I have to match ($$$) for something for her lol

Oh I know full well you wouldn't save a ton of money on materials and obviously time is money. I'm merely looking at it from a standpoint of either of the larger IM EXTs you're looking at $4-500 for the stands and you could in theory, for the time being anyway, do a solid 3/4" plywood stand or 2x4 and skin in thinner plywood for half that price. And when time and budget allows, build the stand and finish it exactly how you like (might be a bit of a pain moving it from one stand to the other but I think moving tanks is something every reefer should experience atleast once

). Just trying to give you the most options out there. I think the 30L is an excellent tank but I worry that with that size you are (Sooner than you think) going to wish you had gotten something a little bigger. And it seems you want this purchase to last a little while anyway.

Fotocha · Mar 19, 2019

JoshH said:
Oh I know full well you wouldn't save a ton of money on materials and obviously time is money. I'm merely looking at it from a standpoint of either of the larger IM EXTs you're looking at $4-500 for the stands and you could in theory, for the time being anyway, do a solid 3/4" plywood stand or 2x4 and skin in thinner plywood for half that price. And when time and budget allows, build the stand and finish it exactly how you like (might be a bit of a pain moving it from one stand to the other but I think moving tanks is something every reefer should experience atleast once). Just trying to give you the most options out there. I think the 30L is an excellent tank but I worry that with that size you are (Sooner than you think) going to wish you had gotten something a little bigger. And it seems you want this purchase to last a little while anyway.

Exactly has me a little worried too. But I did mention Im anal. Perhaps anything larger may honestly be more than I want to handle. I enjoy the maintenance aspect of the hobby. Granted a smaller tank (yes the 30 is still small) requires more than a larger. At some point you have to decide on what you want.

My issue has been scaping with the Evo 13.5. I suppose if I had it laid out like it was designed (sort of like a peninsula) it would have lasted me longer. I have it turned to the side. (Nuvo 16 would have been better) ;Blackeye

JoshH · Mar 19, 2019

Fotocha said:
Exactly has me a little worried too. But I did mention Im anal. Perhaps anything larger may honestly be more than I want to handle. I enjoy the maintenance aspect of the hobby. Granted a smaller tank (yes the 30 is still small) requires more than a larger. At some point you have to decide on what you want.

My issue has been scaping with the Evo 13.5. I suppose if I had it laid out like it was designed (sort of like a peninsula) it would have lasted me longer. I have it turned to the side. ;Blackeye

Lol yeah that makes it look a little... "Off". I will say if you have the room for the Lagoon 50. It gives you plenty of options scape wise because of its depth. And seems to be the happy medium between the 30 and 75, it's also shallower which gives you the benefit of keeping your current lighting with the addition of one more. It can definately give the feeling of "biting off more than you can chew" when you upgrade into the medium to large sizes tank wise. But it really opens up the doors when it comes to everything, scape, coral selection, fish options.

Oh and FWIW I do know the feeling of the biting off more than you can chew all too well. Stepping up from my current Nuvo 10 to my custom 125G has been... eye opening to say the least. The overflow box on my new tank is half the size of the Nuvo 10 lol

Fotocha · Mar 19, 2019

JoshH said:
Lol yeah that makes it look a little... "Off". I will say if you have the room for the Lagoon 50. It gives you plenty of options scape wise because of its depth. And seems to be the happy medium between the 30 and 75, it's also shallower which gives you the benefit of keeping your current lighting with the addition of one more. It can definately give the feeling of "biting off more than you can chew" when you upgrade into the medium to large sizes tank wise. But it really opens up the doors when it comes to everything, scape, coral selection, fish options.

Oh and FWIW I do know the feeling of the biting off more than you can chew all too well. Stepping up from my current Nuvo 10 to my custom 125G has been... eye opening to say the least. The overflow box on my new tank is half the size of the Nuvo 10 lol

The 50 Lagoon is on my radar for sure. Curious if the cabinet would be long enough for a proper sump. Speaking of sump @Dkeller_nc mentioned being very limited to sump types with that cabinet. I'm inexperienced to say the least regarding sump selections. Any suggestions (not really wanting to do a DYI)?