New fish quarantine API general cure directions?

[Arose231]

Is the directions for API general cure correct for flukes? Or would you have to space it apart 7 days like Prazi pro. Was thinking of doing day 1 dose day 4 dose then day 8-9 dose one last time. Would that be correct?

@Jay Hemdal @vetteguy53081

 

[vetteguy53081]

Is the directions for API general cure correct for flukes? Or would you have to space it apart 7 days like Prazi pro. Was thinking of doing day 1 dose day 4 dose then day 8-9 dose one last time. Would that be correct?

@Jay Hemdal @vetteguy53081

Personally with the low content of Prazi in General Cure..... I prefer use of Prazi Pro for both effectiveness and safety of its use with inverts.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Is the directions for API general cure correct for flukes? Or would you have to space it apart 7 days like Prazi pro. Was thinking of doing day 1 dose day 4 dose then day 8-9 dose one last time. Would that be correct?

@Jay Hemdal @vetteguy53081

General Cure has a normal 2.2 ppm dose of prazi, but it also has metronidazole in it. I discuss specific dosing changes in this post:

Dosing Praziquantel (PZQ)

Using Praziquantel (PZQ) to treat flukes Overview In the early 1990’s, a researcher at the New York Aquarium published a paper on using Praziquantel (PZQ) to help control flukes, a parasitic flatworm. Also known as monogenean trematodes, these fish parasites can cause significant mortality in...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Arose231]

@Jay Hemdal i know this a saltwater post but I have freshwater blood parrot fish. Does this look like hole in the head or some fungal infection will general cure treat this?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

@Jay Hemdal i know this a saltwater post but I have freshwater blood parrot fish. Does this look like hole in the head or some fungal infection will general cure treat this?

I don't think that is hole-in-the-head, it looks too shallow and rough and is too low on the head. It looks more like an abrasion with a slight infection.

Is the lesion growing in size?
Does the fish show any other symptoms?
(if not, you might want to just wait a bit)

Otherwise, a general antibiotic like Maracyn II could be used.

Hole-in-the-head in freshwater fish has a different cause than in marine fish. In FW fish, it is caused by a gut flagellate. The mechanism for why/how that causes pits in the fish's head isn't known. However, metronidazole treats that, and General Cure has that in it (but Metroplex would be a better choice).

 

[Arose231]

I don't think that is hole-in-the-head, it looks too shallow and rough and is too low on the head. It looks more like an abrasion with a slight infection.

Is the lesion growing in size?
Does the fish show any other symptoms?
(if not, you might want to just wait a bit)

Otherwise, a general antibiotic like Maracyn II could be used.

Hole-in-the-head in freshwater fish has a different cause than in marine fish. In FW fish, it is caused by a gut flagellate. The mechanism for why/how that causes pits in the fish's head isn't known. However, metronidazole treats that, and General Cure has that in it (but Metroplex would be a better choice).

Yea i think it was caused from fighting another fish as cichlids are know to be aggressive

 

[Arose231]

@Jay Hemdal @vetteguy53081

are these neobendenia eggs on live rock? I just did a freshwater dip on all the fish for 4 minutes and found neobendenia flukes lying at the bottom of bucket. I am currently doing 4 more course of Prazi pro have done the first already on Sunday. Doing 1 today on Wednesday. then another the next following Monday and one last one the next following week Monday. Here is is a video. Fish breathing heavy my porcupine puts his eye on the aquarium glass and literally tells me the flukes are bothering him I just don’t know what to do. Here’s the video.

 

[vetteguy53081]

@Jay Hemdal @vetteguy53081

are these neobendenia eggs on live rock? I just did a freshwater dip on all the fish for 4 minutes and found neobendenia flukes lying at the bottom of bucket. I am currently doing 4 more course of Prazi pro have done the first already on Sunday. Doing 1 today on Wednesday. then another the next following Monday and one last one the next following week Monday. Here is is a video. Fish breathing heavy my porcupine puts his eye on the aquarium glass and literally tells me the flukes are bothering him I just don’t know what to do. Here’s the video.

Hard to tell from pics but. Prazi Pro more effective than general cure

 

[Jay Hemdal]

@Jay Hemdal @vetteguy53081

are these neobendenia eggs on live rock? I just did a freshwater dip on all the fish for 4 minutes and found neobendenia flukes lying at the bottom of bucket. I am currently doing 4 more course of Prazi pro have done the first already on Sunday. Doing 1 today on Wednesday. then another the next following Monday and one last one the next following week Monday. Here is is a video. Fish breathing heavy my porcupine puts his eye on the aquarium glass and literally tells me the flukes are bothering him I just don’t know what to do. Here’s the video.

No - those aren't Neobenedenia eggs, you need a microscope to see those. They look like little triangles with sticky threads coming off the corners.

I can see the fish are breathing a bit off and look sort of "ratty". There can be a number of causes for that. Neo can cause that, even after you remove the adults one time, because there is residual tissue damage. In severe cases, fish can even die after treatment from either severe blook loss through the open holes in the skin, or from secondary bacterial infection.

 

[Arose231]

No - those aren't Neobenedenia eggs, you need a microscope to see those. They look like little triangles with sticky threads coming off the corners.

I can see the fish are breathing a bit off and look sort of "ratty". There can be a number of causes for that. Neo can cause that, even after you remove the adults one time, because there is residual tissue damage. In severe cases, fish can even die after treatment from either severe blook loss through the open holes in the skin, or from secondary bacterial infection.

My tang has made a great recovery thankfully still breathing heavy though from aftermath damage of flukes. Will the following be a good course to treat for lifecycle of neobendenia. Freshwater dip then Prazi day 1, day 4, day 7, day 9 and one more a week later @Jay Hemdal

 

[Jay Hemdal]

My tang has made a great recovery thankfully still breathing heavy though from aftermath damage of flukes. Will the following be a good course to treat for lifecycle of neobendenia. Freshwater dip then Prazi day 1, day 4, day 7, day 9 and one more a week later @Jay Hemdal

For Neo, you would want to stretch that out a bit; 1, day 7, day 14 and day 21. I used to use 8 or 9 day spacing, but that didn't work quite as well. However, even with careful spacing, Neo often slips through. It has been shown that even a single egg can restart the infection.

Are you aware that multiple treatments with prazi causes growth of a bacteria that consumes later doses? this renders multiple treatments ineffective. I've seen that happen at even 4 doses. For severe Neo infestations, I've gone to using hyposalinity, at a specific gravity of 1.012 for 30 days (no inverts of course). That works much better.

 

[Arose231]

For Neo, you would want to stretch that out a bit; 1, day 7, day 14 and day 21. I used to use 8 or 9 day spacing, but that didn't work quite as well. However, even with careful spacing, Neo often slips through. It has been shown that even a single egg can restart the infection.

Are you aware that multiple treatments with prazi causes growth of a bacteria that consumes later doses? this renders multiple treatments ineffective. I've seen that happen at even 4 doses. For severe Neo infestations, I've gone to using hyposalinity, at a specific gravity of 1.012 for 30 days (no inverts of course). That works much better.

Yes am aware that’s why am doing higher dosage as well. The Prazi would still be able to do its job in 12-24 hours it works instantly as it is especially with help of freshwater dips. At 77 degrees which is the temperature on the tank they hatch in 4-6 days I believe @Jay Hemdal

 

[Arose231]

@Jay Hemdal take a look at this article when you get the chance. Have cleaner shrimp as well which are currently helping with neo.

Cleaner shrimp are a sustainable option to treat parasitic disease in farmed fish - PMC

Chemical use is widespread in aquaculture to treat parasitic diseases in farmed fish. Cleaner fish biocontrols are increasingly used in fish farming as an alternative to medicines. However, cleaner fish are susceptible to some of their clients’ ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Jay Hemdal]

@Jay Hemdal take a look at this article when you get the chance. Have cleaner shrimp as well which are currently helping with neo.

Cleaner shrimp are a sustainable option to treat parasitic disease in farmed fish - PMC

Chemical use is widespread in aquaculture to treat parasitic diseases in farmed fish. Cleaner fish biocontrols are increasingly used in fish farming as an alternative to medicines. However, cleaner fish are susceptible to some of their clients’ ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Yes, I've seen that paper - these shrimp do prey on Neo eggs, but 100% control is likely not possible from them in aquariums. The methods section seems to indicate that the study was done using bare test systems. Egg predation in a working home aquarium would therefore be much less due to some eggs being inaccessible to the shrimp in the interstices of the rock and substrate. That "one egg can start a reinfection" holds true here.

 

[Arose231]

@Jay Hemdal emergency. My longnose just died so did my coral beauty. I will have to do hypo salinity at this point what do you recommend I do it’s 125 gallon tank. I will move the inverts to qt. One 30 gallon tank as well

 

[Jay Hemdal]

@Jay Hemdal emergency. My longnose just died so did my coral beauty. I will have to do hypo salinity at this point what do you recommend I do it’s 125 gallon tank. I will move the inverts to qt. One 30 gallon tank as well

I went back and reread this thread. I see I’ve been basically reactive here, answering questions that you have. With two fish suddenly dying like that, I think I need to try a more proactive approach to ensure we have an accurate diagnosis going forward.

What fish are left in the tank? Invertebrates all doing ok?
Have these fish been treated with copper?
Can you post a clear video or two from today?

Thanks.

 

[Arose231]

I went back and reread this thread. I see I’ve been basically reactive here, answering questions that you have. With two fish suddenly dying like that, I think I need to try a more proactive approach to ensure we have an accurate diagnosis going forward.

What fish are left in the tank? Invertebrates all doing ok?
Have these fish been treated with copper?
Can you post a clear video or two from today?

Thanks.

Inverts all well. Fish all breathing heavy. Coral beauty longnose dead. Have not been treated with copper. Here is video breathing very heavy

 

[Arose231]

@Jay Hemdal @vetteguy53081

 

[Arose231]

@Jay Hemdal

 

[vetteguy53081]

Inverts all well. Fish all breathing heavy. Coral beauty longnose dead. Have not been treated with copper. Here is video breathing very heavy

Sorry to hear. Add air stone
We need to pinpoint cause. Lethargic behavior, loss of appetite, head shaking, hiding, and loss of color - Any of these?

@Jay Hemdal

Cant open video. Try you tube version